Just Wondering

[waxman]

If SML made just 25,000 horns,what was the distribution between Alto ,Tenor ,Soprano and Bari ?

[saxyben]

If they made upto 27000 saxes with serial numbers including stencils, from what I have seen for sale on the internet I would guess that there are very approximately 3 sopranos for every baritone, 2 tenors for every soprano, and 3 altos for every tenor.
Proportionately that gives you the following relationships.
Alto 18
tenor 6
soprano 3
baritone 1
Total 28
From that I would guess there are a maximum of 1000 baritones, 18,000 altos, 6,000 tenors and 3,000 sopranos.
If you think the above proportions are wrong and that there are 2 for 1 all the way up
Alto 8
tenor 4
soprano 2
baritone 1
Total 15
so times 1.8 that gives you 27, so there are a maximum of 1,800 Baritones, 3,600 sopranos, 7200 tenors and 14400 altos.
OK I realise there are bound to be huge disagreements about this from people much more knowledgeable about this than me (Hi Pete etc), but when you look at those numbers you realise how rare they are based on 50 years of manufacture.
All comments, disagreements and theories welcomed. :?

[waxman]

Cheers Ben !

You have cured my curiosity and going off these stats,maybe increased the value of SML's.
Are they "sleeper horns"? Or a poor mans mark vi ?8-)

[saxyben]

Hi Waxman
As we are on the SML page obviously there might be a bit of bias here.
I have to admit I haven't played a Mark VI but I have previously owned 3 Selmers a Mark VII and two older ones and I wouldn't swap my SML for any of them.
I only found out about SMLs from the saxpics site which I came upon when searching about Conn Naked Lady's as I was looking on Ebay at Tenors and a Selmer was out of my price range. But If you look at this forum and all of the archives, you will see that many other players now play SMLs instead of Selmers out of preference. A lot is made of the 22 features which allows a Pro to have his sax set up exactly how he wants it, but in my opinion their best feature by far is the sound and the intonation which is a lot better than my previous Selmers. A lot of people compare them more to the Selmer SBAs rather than the Mark VI.
In terms of value, although the GM1s and Rev Ds are fairly expensive, you can get the same/ similar tone from a King Marigaux or other stencil such as the Reynolds or Pichard some of the early ones upto serial number 20000 (see saxpics for confirmation) have GM1 spec.
Surprsingly the price hasn't really gone up that much in the last 3 years that I have watched them, so now you can still get 2 or 3 SMLs for the price of a Mark VI. However at some point you would expect the prices to rise considering their rarity.
The best quotes I can find for this are from Fred Cicetti's original article (available here at http://www.saxontheweb.net/SML/thestory.html "Selmer, Buffet and SML are three great woodwind makers in France. Professional musicians choose Selmer for saxophones, Buffet for clarinets and SML for oboes. I believe the quality of the instruments made by the three companies is in all their products, not just one." and also from Worldwide Sax.com at http://www.worldwidesax.com/altos.htm "Think about this, SML hand produced only 27,000 horns in total, from 1935, to 1981 .. The Mark VI run alone, from '55 to '81, in 26 years, spewed out approximately 321,600 instruments... which horn do you think got more time spent on it? " Also when you read about the Mark VI there is a lot of debate about good serial numbers or not so good ones, as the saxes don't seem to be of consitent quality, whereas you don't see that on the SML pages.
To conclude I would disagree that the SML is a poor mans Mark VI, they are beautifully constructed professional saxophones (even the lacquer colour is unlike other makers) with a fantastic rich sound.
Marigaux now only make Oboes which retail for £4,000, so what would their saxophones cost new in todays market?
All the Best
Ben:)

[waxman]

Saxyben. Cheers for that info.
I bought an SML Tenor on E Bay 3 months back for about 740 quid.It needs a full overhaul plus the octave key thumb support is missing,i chose this horn after reading upabout it and hearing that the tuning is spot on,this i tested and the needle sat bang in the middle of the tuner on most notes.
Allthough the horn is pretty hard work with the leaks and such,the sound is what iIve been searching for.unfortunately I can't have the horn fixed just yet until I have sold my Keilworth Tenor Anniversary model which I have currently got on the market for about 2 grand. I would like to keep this too but the missus wont let me! No not really, just economics to be truthful. Yes, it is right what you say, SMLs can still be picked up pretty cheaply, one went for 850 quid on ebay last month, it looked in great order, 1960's model, the same as mine. Cheers for now.

[saxyben]

You got a good deal with your Tenor and so did I with last months ebay one!!!, but although the lacquer is great it too needs an overhaul to sort out a bit of damage and the intonation (which can be done by adjusting the key heights I think). Like you I bought it with the intention of selling my other Tenor which is a King Marigaux 26XXX, but I am reluctant to do it, even though I need the money.
SMLs seem usually to be a little cheaper in the UK, but they rarely come up (I missed yours completely but have spotted about 3 in 3 years. A UK Gold Plated GM1 went for £2500 last year on Ebay. I know of about 3 or 4 Tenors for sale in European shops for 2500-3500 Euros or so, but even then a really nice Two Tone GM1 failed to sell on Italian Ebay for 1650 Euros (Yes I am a trainspotter)
All the best Ben

[waxman]

Bloody heck,fancy you getting that tenor,is the case the original one ?
I'm hoping to get mine overhauled before xmas.It wiil cost about two thirds of the price compared to UK prices. I'm English living in Australia.Keep me posted on your overhaul.I fancy Roo pads with plastic resonators .

ps How was the selmer mouthpiece ?

[saxyben]

Hi, I am no expert on cases, but I have seen late 50s SMLs sold with the original crocodile cases, but whether that was the normal one the were sold with I have no idea. My case does have a 60s look about it, but there are no makers details.
The Selmer mpc is ok, but I really like my Berg Larsen (Ebonite) one that came with the KM.
All the Best