Quiet playing?

[chaotic42]

Hey guys, I'm new here.

I played alto for about 5 years, and stopped for about 4. I picked up a sax yesterday, but I have a problem. I can only play at work. I live in a very thin-walled house/apartment.

Is there any good way to mute my sax? I'd like to tone it down to about TV or conversation level.

Any ideas?

[Razzy]

Play soft! ;) Seriously, I'm in situations all the time where I have to practice softly so that I don't disturb people. Right now I'm down the shore and practice at night, usually between 12 and 2 a.m. I play in the ground level concrete room where my sound is sort of muffled to the rest of the house, but I still have to play about a piano volume level not to be heard. So, I play everything really soft! It's a great workout. And I swear, the softer you play, the louder you'll be able to play. Since I've just picked days where I practice everything piano or pianissimo (especially longtones, scales, overtones, etc.), I can play MUCH louder and achieve a much fuller sound when needed.

However, there is a need to play the sax a certain volume level for normal practice sessions. You should look for a place that you can go to practice and rent for a few hours a day. Or find a friend's house you can go to and practice undisturbed. If there are any music colleges near you, they may have open practice rooms you could rent from them by getting a college ID and just going to the practice rooms.

[Amy]

How about a saxophone mute? There was a thread about them a little while ago. I have never used one myself, maybe someone could give you more information about them.

[kcp]

Amy, you could never mute a saxophone accurately since the air/sound escapes from the open tone holes all around. Unlike a trumpet for instance, where the air/sound escapes only by one end.

With a saxophone you could always place a sock inside at the bottom of the bell. This sorta works but it changes the sound espescially in the lower register. Plus part of the register might be more difficult to play.

I saw years ago, advertized in Downbeat magazine some sort of a portable practice room that cuts the sound. They called it "Silent room" or "Whisper room" I don't remember too well. Anyway, I don't have any experience with that, never tried one, and from what I remember it was rather very $$$.

[primetime]

I'm not sure how well it works, but for a while now on WW&BW's website (http://www.wwbw.com ) the was this thing called the "El Saxco silent sax gig bag" or something or other, thats basically a gigi bag that covers the sax except the neck that you can play into tyhe bag and the sound gets muffled. I've never tried them, but the idea sounds like it could work. But I would also favor the option of practicing really softly, because it really does help!

-P.T.

[SopranoSue]

If you play soprano, just forget to take out the stuff-it swab inside. Voila! No sound at all... :roll:

[top_gun25]

my old director gave this for my alto. Stuff a NERF Ball(FOAM) down the bell. you know a small dodgeball size one. big to fill the bell. big so it stays and you can get out. it will muffle the sound and you can still play. another is just finger and not blow.(save time on setup and take down too!). and you can MUFFLE a sax. dont make me give you a lesson in accustics. Sound comes out the BELL, keys just make the instrument SHORTER or LONGER changing the PITCH and thus the NOTE. that is how any keyd ins works. muffling the sound by say a nerf in the bell will reduce the amount of (Chaotic will like this) NOISE allowed to annoy the ppl around you 8) . Oh here are the mute posts on this site
http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=3858&highlight=sax+mute
http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=1830&highlight=sax+mute
The nerf works, i used it myself at home and the fam loves me for it. (tho i didnt think i was that bad! :x )

[primetime]

top_gun25, wait a second....I know a little about the mechanics of the saxphone, and what I don't think what you said is totally accurate...well it is true that air sound comes out the bell, and keys just make the pitch pipe shorter, but to a much varying degree. While a majority of NOISE comes out the bell on notes like low D, C, Bell key notes and such, what about higher noters, like the high D, where all of the air you put into to sax has excaped after the octave pip, D tone hole, and upper stack...there isn't any air LEFT to go to the bell. I would know because I've played with many things stuck in my bell....including a nerf ball, a soda can, a neckstrap, people's hands, a camera..the list goes on. But it didn't effect any notes above low D, in any situation. So while a nerf ball may muffle the sound on some notes, It wouldn't be as effective as just playing quietly. However, maybe I'm just totally off in my own little sax-tastic universe, where people carry things in thier bell all the time for decoration. Whatever works!

-P.T. 8)

[MS]

top_gun25 - you might want to read:

www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/saxacoustics.html

[top_gun25]

i read it. it was very interesting put me right to sleep and i'm an insominac! :)

the Bell is like a gutar sound hole. it amplifies sound(to a very small degree) but it also FOCOUSES IT. this is what ths mute does, it scatters the sound Back into the horn. It cant get out, except the keys(small openenings and lots of direction=less noise) so it scatters the sound instead of focousing it. Also foam will absorb some sound. that is why i dont like wood mutes. it works better than anything i have used. if any one has ever mic'ed a sax you know you have to be aimed at the mic. if you ar say sidways you wont pick up. it is directional.

:idea: Next time you play hold you hand next to a open key. see how much air comes out. not much compaired to what is going IN. If so see a repairman. :wink:

[Metro Gnome]

First up, I’m outa my depth so be nice…

If my physics lessons (was it so long ago already...) serve me correctly what we are talking about is pressure waves, sound waves and air flow…

My (simple) understanding of the sax is that blowing into the thing (pressure wave) starts wobbling the reed at high frequencies & causes us to vibrate a column of air (the body) which, owing to the nice acoustic principles of the sax causes a nice sound (wave)….

Yes, the pressure forces the air (flow) outa the wee holes, which takes with it some of the sound…

However, the bulk of the air flow and pressure trundles round the Bow (can we say U bend here?) and pops outa the bell at the big open end… Hence this is where most of the sound comes out with it... (& I guess is why we see that as the place to stick the Microphone if we are trying to do the complete opposite of this thread and make it louder…)

Stuffing the bow/bell with socks, dusters, towels, nerf balls (that’s a new one :)) will force the pressure/airflow/sound outa somewhere else and cause it to have less ‘amplification’ which the resonance of the bell helps to create…

Will it work as a mute? Well practical experience says’s … not much :( However it will help, as will playing softly…
8)

[dingfelder]

correct me if I'm wrong (I am not a physicist), but if you stick an object in the bell, won't the volume be the same?

My thought is that a bit of air comes out each hole, with the bulk coming out the bell. If you plug the bell, it just would make the majority of the air come out somewhere else, in this case, the last open key before the plug.

In my opinion, the only thing that would be different in this case, is that the accoustics of the noise would be changed (since the sound would not have a chance to "rattle around" so to speak in the bell).

In any case, the "volume" of the playing seems to me to be a result of the quantity and speed of the air introduced into the mothpiece, not the accoustics of the sound (which is a result of the bore of the horn).

Furthermore, if it is really plugged well, and you play a low note, then my assumption is that NO sound could come out unless you have a leak.

So, my conclusion is that an object in the bell may change the sound of the tone, but will not make the horn "quieter".

I vote yes for the portable soundproof room. (one of my friends in NC was talking about making one from eggshell foam coated plywood, which was held together by hinges so it was collapsable.)

[RS]

Good advice from Razzy. The ability to practice at soft levels is a useful skill. I live in an apartment building where I'm allowed to air my horns out up until 6:00 PM but then I have to cool it. But by being able to play P or PP I can continue to practice as late as I want. It's best to be able to play at any level you want but when you can't you can still get something accomplished by playing softly. You can practice sightreading, fingering excercises, long tones, etc.

[top_gun25]

If my physics lessons (was it so long ago already...) serve me correctly what we are talking about is pressure waves, sound waves and air flow…

My (simple) understanding of the sax is that blowing into the thing (pressure wave) starts wobbling the reed at high frequencies & causes us to vibrate a column of air (the body) which, owing to the nice acoustic principles of the sax causes a nice sound (wave)….

Yes, the pressure forces the air (flow) outa the wee holes, which takes with it some of the sound…

However, the bulk of the air flow and pressure trundles round the Bow (can we say U bend here?) and pops outa the bell at the big open end… Hence this is where most of the sound comes out with it... (& I guess is why we see that as the place to stick the Microphone if we are trying to do the complete opposite of this thread and make it louder…)

Stuffing the bow/bell with socks, dusters, towels, nerf balls (that’s a new one ) will force the pressure/airflow/sound outa somewhere else and cause it to have less ‘amplification’ which the resonance of the bell helps to create… :D Exactly Give the man a star He knows his Stuff!
And I was not tring to be mean, i am sry if i came off as such. The mute Scatters the waves not focous. so without a concentrated sound (using loosely) "Cone" Centered on the bell. see below. 9 is strong 4 is muffled.

//9999-->-->
<99999-->--> Sound unmuffeled Bell no mute Loud
\\9999-->-->
Arrows show sound direction and an idea of intensity.
<99I)) 4>
<-9I(( 44> Sound Muffled Mute Not loud.
<99I)) 4>
Note this is a Rough idea i did not bother doing Math. calculations are NOT correct. This is only one mans idea on how a system works. please if you can show me facts on how it works, PLEASE do as i am interested.
Sry i didnt have better Graphx! best i could do now.

[Metro Gnome]

Do they still use wave tanks to show how reflection, refraction & interference all work as waveforms?

It would be kind of nice if someone could make a sax cross section and pop it into one of those tanks with a movie of how the waves travel... some cut out approximations for the various keys etc and.....

Coming back to realty is hard sometimes isn't it???

:lol:

[top_gun25]

nope not much, mostly digital simulation now. good idea but we would take FOREVER on a POLL on what TYPE of SAX to CUT IN HALF fo the cross section.

I vote... Jupiter. DOWN THE MIDDLE
:arrow: THIS IS NOT A POLL :!: