can i learn to play by music after 30 plus years by ear

[mhoeta]

i've been playing for many years by ear, but i cant read a single note, i played in dance bands for years although i dont play sax pro any more. is it possible for me to learn after so long ?

[spencer05]

Get a book, and start practicing the scales. Start slow and work your way up to speed. When I was a youngster learning to play, my biggest problem was to see more than one note. My teacher told me to look at the music in increments of bars. This helped.

[Alto Giant]

I'd also advice you to learn that instrument from the roots on again. 30 years is a long time. When I haven't played for ONE DAY my chops seem to be worse than two days before.

Have you already played on a sax yet or do you still have to get one?

Best wishes

Toby

[ismail]

alto giant:
I think he´s been playing for thirty years by ear and wants to learn playing by music.
he has not had a break of thirty years afaik...

[Alto Giant]

Uuupss...ok...but none the less this is my advice.Because: You can talk,but not read...know what I mean???

[saxmanglen]

Uuupss...ok...but none the less this is my advice.Because: You can talk,but not read...know what I mean???


That is so true but you can also drive and not know how to get there without a map. ;)

[Rick Adams]

The short answer has to be "yes you can". Age does not prevent new learning so long as you have the time and determination, and you'll have a head start because you're familiar already with the aural tradition. Good luck!

edited to add... I've just looked up Whangarei on the web, it looks gorgeous!

[Dave Dolson]

This guy's last post was in July of 2003!!!! Why are we now replying to his question? DAVE

[Rick Adams]

ROFL that is so funny!

[Alto Giant]

ROFLMAO

poor guy.....

[stefank]

This question is still relevant, irrespective of when it was first posted. I learned "by the book" and am now busily trying to go in the other direction, for each has its strengths.

Stefan

[Dave Dolson]

I don't think his question is relevant . . . or real, for that matter. The original post looks like a poor joke to me. Look at his posts - all on the same day as I recall. This one was poorly stated, and made little sense.

There usually aren't any stupid questions, but this one may be the one stupid question I've seen. Can he learn? Of course! (or maybe not, but no one here knows whether or not this guy can learn anything). DAVE

[stefank]

Dave, the original post may well have been frivolous, but the issue it touches on is definitely not. As a teacher (teaching mainly 16/17 year olds) I see quite a few students that seem quite "trapped" on one side or the other of the reading/non-reading divide.

The ones who seem to have the biggest problems "crossing over" are generally guitarists.

Just about all horn players of that age group have at least reasonable reading skills because most of them have been through school band programs where they can't avoid picking them up! Many of these are uncomfortable without the "security blanket" of music notation, but I have strategies for dealing with this (if they want to deal with it), mainly because I have been through the same process myself.

The non-readers are a different type of problem. Some of them are highly technically skilled on their instrument, have excellent aural skills, and they often have quite a good understanding of musical theory. These are (stereotypically) students who didn't fit in with their earlier school music programs - not through lack of ability, but because they had their own fixed musical ideas, and weren't that keen on what can be the flock of sheep mentality of some band programs, and so went and did their own thing - usually with a guitar. Later on some of them are finding that they may want to gain some formal music qualifications. Learning theory is not a problem, indeed learning how music notation works is not a problem, but getting them to be equally adept at picking up a piece from a sheet of standard notation as they can by ear is a major issue.

The short answer is (of course) practice, practice, practice, but practice time can be used wisely or wasted. I remember a Peanuts comic strip from over thirty years ago in which Lucy asked Schroder (spelling?) how come he could play all that difficult music on a toy piano which only had the black notes painted on. His answer? "I practice a lot".

If I had as much one on one time with these students as I wanted, I would spend a large amount of it on sight singing exercises, which should result (after sufficient practice practice practice) in them "hearing" the music when they "see" it - but I generally get nowhere near that time, I'm dealing with classes, and they're in too many different places for there to be any value for most of them to be doing this sort of stuff as a group.

Any suggestions?

Stefan

[ismail]

This question is still relevant, irrespective of when it was first posted. I learned "by the book" and am now busily trying to go in the other direction, for each has its strengths.

Stefan


dang, now you saved us answerers to this thread :>>>

[Dave Dolson]

Stefank: I agree that many players struggle on both sides of ear-vs.-reading abilities. But you are reading way too much into the original poster's question. Oh, we are all probably guilty of reading too much into a post and covering issues not asked about.

Like the judge admonishes verbose witnesses in court, "Just answer the question, please."

The original poster writes from a stated position of being a MATURE adult. Can he learn to read? Of COURSE he can learn to read. The answer is, "Yes."

But beyond that, I urge you to read his other posts, made within a one-week period (as I recall). He was a poseur, a troll. The question could not possibly have been serious.

If you STILL think there is more to it, then read through the site and see just how much has already been posted on the same subject in other threads. DAVE

[Rick Adams]

As a teacher (teaching mainly 16/17 year olds) I see quite a few students that seem quite "trapped" on one side or the other of the reading/non-reading divide.

The ones who seem to have the biggest problems "crossing over" are generally guitarists.

Learning theory is not a problem, indeed learning how music notation works is not a problem, but getting them to be equally adept at picking up a piece from a sheet of standard notation as they can by ear is a major issue.

If I had as much one on one time with these students as I wanted, I would spend a large amount of it on sight singing exercises, which should result (after sufficient practice practice practice) in them "hearing" the music when they "see" it - but I generally get nowhere near that time, I'm dealing with classes, and they're in too many different places for there to be any value for most of them to be doing this sort of stuff as a group.Stefan, you have summed up my own position perfectly! I'm a self taught guitarist who has turned in my middle years to sax, and although I've read guitar tab for years I hadn't a clue when it comes to reading music and it's just as you say - the concepts aren't the problem, it's getting up to speed that's the issue.

Currently I laboriously work out and write the note under each crotchet/quaver/whatever and then I can play the piece by half looking at the music notation and half looking at what I've written underneath, but patently this is extremely limited and frustrating.

Any tips or more details on your exercises would be very gratefully received!

[stefank]

Rick, if you've got the time and inclination, get some old sight singing exercise books. I picked up quite a good supply from the local tip shop! These consist of short exercises, usually starting with just a few notes, intervals of a second and very simple rhythms. Things slowly get more complex from there.

You could play these on an instrument, but I think they are best sung (or at least hummed), as was originally intended. The main benefit of singing is that you get the "sound concept" into your head independent of the mechanical process of playing an instrument. With sufficient practice you should then be able to mentally "hear" a line of music just by looking at it. Just check your starting note (although if you, like me, don't have perfect pitch that's not a particular problem) and you're off. The first exercise will probably only contain the first two notes of the major scale, the next maybe three. You know what these sound like - it's just a matter of associating the relative positions of the little dots with the musical intervals in your head - and that takes practice. It's also important to get some regular feedback from a confident reader to make sure that you are getting it right, and are not practicing errors. Then there's rhythm! It's probably best to keep the rhythm simple when you are struggling with pitch and vice versa, but don't deal with them in total isolation - the real musical world doesn't work like that.

Short answer: You need to a whole lot of reading (singing or playing) of unfamiliar material, and have someone check that you are getting it right. Start easy.

Stefan

[Rick Adams]

Stefan I'm much obliged. Your advice is very helpfuland as I've booked myself in with a sax teacher I'll take what you've said along to them and see if they have any such material, otherwise I'm sure I can find something to work from. This time around I'm determined to do things properly, in fact I'm seriously considering studying for and taking ABRSM jazz sax and theory grades so I can monitor my progress.

Thanks once again!

[stefank]

The other thing I should have mentioned is to join a band that reads. If one of the local community bands is anywhere near your cup of tea, you'll find it's an excellent way to put that music reading theory into practice - in a limited time frame!