C Melody project horn - help!!

[mrsax100]

Hi!
My Martin Stencil c melody arrived yesterday! I'm a beginner at working at saxophones (but not a beginner playing), and hoped that I could float a few questions:
1) As confirmed on another thread, I am using Silvo to polish the silver (very heavily tarnished with a grease like coat), but have discovered (very happily) that the inside of the bell has the "gold wash". Question 1) Will the silvo be ok to clean the gold wash and if not, what would? question 2) there are some very heavily black marked areas on the silver (matt silver), which seem raised off the plating. Is there anything I can do to remove this - ie lots of polish or a buff?

2) It only struck me this morning that when I was stripping down the horn that the (original) pads do not have resonators! When I am re-padding should I use pads with resonators or try to source ones like the originals? (If pads should be as originals, can these be easily obtained?)

3) Theres a couple of screws which dont want to move - will some penetrating oil (WD40?) be the best thing for these?

4) For when it eventually goes back together, can someone give me a brand name of a good lubricating oil to go between the rods and the posts?

Thanks for your time in reading this, I'm sure there will be further questions popping up during the course of the project!

Regards
Jason

[cmelodysax]

Jason - Silvo is fine for the gold-wash bell, just go gently - better to part-clean first time, take off the muck first, than to rub too hard. Same with the silver, bright and matt. I use a mix of Silvo wadding and the liquid - let it soak in - and plenty of old cotton/linen sheets !

The Martin C-Mel has a natural big sound, so pads with resonators will bring out a clearer, brighter, more modern tone. Then you get to think about mouthpieces......

WD40 is OK, but in the UK, Halfords sell a product called Loctite Freeze-Release. A little heat to the outside of the pillar, and then spray this stuff on the thread end of the screw or rod, should work. Again, go gently, multiple attempts, half a turn (or less) at a time - let it soak in as well. Avoid force, use a well fitting screwdriver, just time and patience.... We don't have all the releasing agents available here, that some US contributors may suggest.

I've tried many oils and light greases, but now I use Castrol EP 80W-90, a gear oil (suggested by Stephen Howard). Seems to be a good compromise.

I'm sure there will be a lot of other comments..... Good Luck, email me thro' the website if you'd like, link below, if you haven't already found it.

Regards, Alan.

[mrsax100]

Hi Alan

Thanks for the info, I've sent you a message.

Cheers

Jason

[Carl H.]

Keep that WD-40 away from your sax. It is used by many as a lubricant, but it IS NOT. It is a water displacing formula which is very commonly mis-applied. Go to a hardware store and look for something labeled as a penetrating oil. PB Blaster is a good product but I don't know if it is available there.

WD-40 will soften old oil, but it attracts dirt & dust and will promote gumming up of the works.

[Dave dix]

The heat and drip method works well as it sucks the lube in as itcools but if its too frozen you may need to de-solder the post which is easy enough especially on a silver horn cos the re-soldering doesn't stick out.
Dave

[cmelodysax]

I think you're giving WD40 a hard time there, Carl H, it's not just a moisture displacer - it does work on the heat & absorb method, but I'll agree there are better products. However, once used, any penetrating product should obviously be cleaned off and replaced with a lubricant, like EP 80W-90.

PB Blaster is dificult, but not impossible, to obtain this side of "the pond", we have others like Gunk Liquid Wrench, but I've had great results with Loctite Freeze-Release.

Jason - got your email, I'll reply in a day or two, needs more than a quick answer....... If your problem is with a stuck rod (with a slot sawn in the end), be VERY careful appling any force once the rod starts moving - it's so easy to snap off one side of the 'sawn slot' once it's clear of the pillar ! It's usually not just stuck at the thread end, frequently the tube is all gummed up as well. Good luck, and remember, patience....

[bruce bailey]

I think you are on the right track. For those stuck screws, I use "Liquid Wrench" as it comes in a dropper can that can be put only where you want it. You can let it sit for a few hours then try putting a little clockwise pressure and anti-clockwise back and forth to loosen. Be patient. For those heavy black marks, try a little lacquer thinner as it won't eat the plating but will remove gunk. Silvo works well but sometimes you need a paste polish from a tube like Hagerty's. Q-tips for the hard places. Rivet pads are OK but if you are doing the whole horn, resonators will make it easier to sell later. When running the leak light, be sure to check the tone holes where they meet the body. They are pretty reliable but sometimes a solder is bad. IF you find a bad solder, PM me and I will walk you through a simple fix.

[saxmong]

I have little experience with restoration but have reclaimed a black sax with Goddards silver dip.

Just wipe or brush it on and the black tarnish majically disssappears!

I like it because I hate trying to get my fingers between the rods and all that rubbing takes hours!

[mrsax100]

You guys are great! Thanks for all the help.

WD-40 - I had already soaked the screw in this and again overnight and went home yesterday and it worked! Might have been luck or might have been product. The rod set below this one is now stuck, but its a rod with the slot in the end, so thanks Alan for the note of caution. What I am intending to do is finish the polishing and rinse the sax off in warm soapy water as the inside still smells a bit musty and also with using all those products, I thought it might be a good idea to make sure I've got them all off before putting pads near it.

Its great to have all this help, even simple things like leaving things over night, tightening the screw a bit and then loosening it etc etc, which I didnt think of.

I've ordered up some premuim pads from Windcraft - thanks Bruce & Alan - I've gone with your suggestion and ordered the resonator pads. Will try and get a hold of some laquer thinner. It seems silver has a lot of advantages over laquer finish in many ways. Bruce, I really hope that I dont need to PM you about those tone holes!

Dave and Saxmong - thanks for the advice!

Will let you know how I get on with re-padding, I'm nervous but excited!

Alan - "remember - patience, patience" - how true! (I've not got much of that..)

Thanks again

Jason

[mrsax100]

Is this a daft question? When polishing silver (ie the matt and "polished" silver on this horn) do I continue applying polish and then cleaning off until the cloth with the polish no longer turns black, or just until I am happy with the finish?

I'd like to get it right first time, but dont want to damage the finish.

Thanks again

Jason

[cmelodysax]

Saxmong (this is embarassing) - I'd honestly never thought of just dropping - or brushing - Goddards silver dip into the hard-to-reach places. Does it literally just dissolve the tarnish ? Obviously lack of lateral thinking (or masochism) on my part..........

Jason - imho, just clean until you're happy with the finish. Seems to me that there's always something else you can polish on a silver sax, and then it starts to dull all over again ! You can buy big 'silver wraps' to delay that process.

-and with stuck rods, it often helps to 'waggle' the keys/cups/tubes on the rod as you are gently trying to unscrew it. Anything to break the deadlock, often the decades of dried oil/grease/muck inside a tube can be almost as much of a problem as a siezed thread. Just remember that you may be trying to oversome up to 80 years of neglect, so if it takes a while, what does it matter ? Patience, patience, patience..... It's worth it in the end.

[bruce bailey]

Over here we have one called Tarn-X and it is put on and washed off. It removes the tarnish but doesn't polish it. Good for the first step however. I agree that you polish until you are happy with the results. Thsy put a lot of silver on those old horns! Watch out for the springs as I always have a few holes in my fingers to prove I actually clean horns...

[saxmong]

Yes Alan,
Majically comes off! (chemical reaction)

They also do a chemical impregnated silver polish cloth.
Majically comes off for the first month or so until the chemical is used up or evaporates

[cmelodysax]

Saxmong - Wow ! I knew I should have paid more attention during chemistry lessons at school - or should that have been wizardry lessons ? All I need to find now is an airbrush that polishes.........;)

[bruce bailey]

There is also a deal that people sell (you cam make it) where ther is a piece of metal in a sink, you put in baking soda and add hot water. Might work on bodies but I just use the tarn-X.