10M questions

[Knight Ender]

Well, I have decided to get into the world of vintage horns, and wanted to know more before I slap the cash down. I briefly saw a 10M at a store that had a nasty looking finish with dull engraving(which could mean a poor relaquer, right) for $400. It most likely would need some work done to get into top plaing condition. My experience with Conn's only includes my 20M alto(which I love and it has a beasty sound 8) ). I currently play a Cannonball Tenor, and was hoping someone can give me some advice. I'd like to be a little better informed if I go back and take it for a ride.

[will]

I played a modern yamaha for 8 years before I got my 10M. It is important that you do some research on old Conns before you buy any old Conn. The 10Ms before WWII are the most desirable ones. They have rolled tone holes, and usually the lady face engraving. When I was in the market for a new tenor, I limited myself to only Mk VIs. After playing a 10M, I knew that it had the sound I was looking for. I was concerned that I wouldn't like the action but after only a few days, it felt natural. Now when I play a VI the action feels weird. Who would have thought? Check out Steve Goodson site for more info

http://www.saxgourmet.com

Good luck in your search.

Will

[Bill08690]

Also check out WWW.SAXPICS.COM for more info on all sorts of horns.

[Zman]

Knight, I play 10M #276xxx, ca. '37 or so. Mine came off a shop wall in New Orleans in playable but loose condition. I invested about $1000 to have Steve Goodson perform his Grand Master overhaul, total in the horn <$2000.

After the overhaul and a short break-in period, my horn flat rocks. From mellow ballads to edgy R&B, I just love it. Action is superb after two follow-up shop visits to get it just right. I have tried to get serious about one of the new Goodson model Unisons, but there is no way I will park my 10M. It's just too good to do that.

Also, FYI: I have been through several mouthpieces searching for the perfect setup (aren't we all?). I really liked the Runyon Quantum 7 metal. However, I recently tried a plain old Runyon Custom 7 with a Rovner Dark lig and Fibracell medium soft reed: outrageous man, just outstanding. Really mellowed out the horn overall while allowing edgy power on top. Total control.

I had gotten away from Runyon and Fibracell over the past couple of years, but with a fresh try I think it's a winner setup for my 10M.

[Tom ed]

Hi Knight, I play an old mutt of a 10m that goes from soft and mellow to full scream with out a second thought. This is a bit of a franken horn in that it is a late fifties model that has had the double socket neck repaced with a Conn New Wonder neck from the twenties. It now has a regular 28mm neck socket from my repair guys junk drawer. This was an ebay purchase that I thought was a big mistake when I first got it. With Southeastern musical services help, what could of been a lost has turned into a monster horn. Under full sail it will vibrate like a wild thing, in fact I have to make sure that the lyre screw is tight or it will vibrate out. Current mouthpieces are a 100 2 m hard rubber bullet chamber Berg and for softer darker stuff a long shank soloist. It has all the Conn bad habits, a small chamber mouthpiece tunes way out on the cork, palm key notes take a bit of lip to play in tune, but it has all the great Conn sound a fellow could want. Even with all the work I'm in under a grand on the horn so can't complain to much. Just take your time, and be careful when buying these old horns, the mechanical condition can vary greatly from horn to horn. Always have your mechanic check the horn out before purchase, it pays to be careful.

[Bill08690]

I played a Big Bell Cannonball tenor this weekend and thought it was like my 1951 10M, lots of big low end etc. But I think my 10M will play with more dynamic range as the Cannonball seemed to have only one level, LOUD!

My '51 10M has the hardest brass on the key work and will stay in adjustment for ever. The Conn adjustable end point screws are great too! They are very good horns in many respects. Some old timers still think they were the best saxes going.

PS: I'm looking for an old single socket neck for my 10M.

[Knight Ender]

Yeah, I've heard a lot of great things about them so far. This is the nudge I think I needed. Now to put the money together and test play the horn. I play in my college's Big band, so the loud factor of my C-Ball helps.


Just for more advice, I have three tenor mouthpieces.....A metal Rousseau 7, a Selmer S80 D, and A Lakey 8*3. I don't use the lakey, to hard to control, and I love the Rousseau. I know it's mostly what works for me, but any advice on more setup options would be much appreciated.


Thanks guys.

[Frank D]

Knight, I found my 10M in a pawnshop for $400, put in another $500 for overhaul, and it is a great horn. It's a silverplate model from 1949, no rolled tone holes like some of the earlier models, but is still a fine example. All the great tonal subtleties and volume capabilities are there, and it's built like a tank. The later models may not be as desirable as some of the earlier ones, but can be worthwhile investments as well.

I like the way mine plays with larger chambered pieces like Links, but mine also plays OK with a Guardala Studio.

[Knight Ender]

It certainly felt hefty for the minute or so I had a chance to hold it. I have a feeling that it may be sitting for a while, which is good, considering I need to get some money to gether....I have to pay tuition for spring quarter..... *Shakes fist at the cahier's office*

I really appreciate the help I'm getting from you folks. It's nice to chat about horns with other horn players.

[Tom ed]

Also add a metal Berg 105 2 sms to my list of mouthpieces. Just spent a couple of hours playing along with some Freddy King and Buddy Guy Cds and this horn really howls with the metal Berg. Made for the blues I do believe.

[ferrari]

I've been playing my 41' 10M for over 30 years with a 5* Otto Link STM and #4 reeds. This setup for me is hard to beat. If you buy a 10M, you'll never regret it! Good luck.

[will]

On my 10M I play a Florida 7* refaced by Theo Wanne. Amazing low end with this setup.

[Saxaholic]

Hey Knight...if I could redirect you over to the Cannonball discussion page and maybe get your opinions? Thanks.

Walter

[-j.]

Hi Knight,

So, any closure to your quest yet? I've followed this thread (and the other 10M threads on the old forum) very closely because I had a 10M coming from Tim Glesmann at Sax Alley, and it was going to be my first vintage horn.

Well, it finally got here two days ago. She's a 1949 vintage, no rolled tone holes and a relacquer (done prob. some time in the 80's is Tim's guess). My other tenor is a Ref. 54 -- and I've been a Selmerite all my life -- but I had very little trouble getting used to the keywork (I'd say I have about average-sized hands). I'm loving the Conn so much I didn't get around to compare it to my 54 until today. The sound is not quite as boomy, somewhat surprisingly, as the 54's -- but that's prob. due to the relac, and mostly due to my still learning how to play it like a CONN and not a Selmer. (And my 54, by the way, is truly a monster -- Tim said when he tweaked it last year it was by far the best that had come across his work bench; just to give you a frame of reference.) I've settled -- for now... -- on a Vandoren Java, which really makes the Conn sing. Intonation is spot-on, response is fantastic, and the horn is very free-blowing and resonates like all getout, despite the relac. By the way, I'm not a pro, just a hobbyist with limited practice time (2-3 hrs./day on average).

The surprising ease with which I am able to play the 10M is in large part due to the mastery of Tim Glesmann. Sure, perhaps I could've gotten a "better" 10M via the ebay route at maybe even a "better" price, but I didn't want to grow an ulcer in the process, and I have absolute faith in Tim's work. His selection of vintage horns may not be as wide as that of some other online dealers, but his work is absolute top-notch, first-rate, and he's a standup guy to boot. The work on he did on my 10M is simply outstanding -- even after being handled by the burly UPS guys, and even with the brand new pads still settling in, the Conn right out of the box was as rich and expressive (in different ways to be sure) than my 54 after 3 years of shedding/adjusting/tweaking/worrying/ulcer-growing...

Anyway, sorry for rambling, but perhaps there's something in my experiences that you may find helpful.

-j.

[Knight Ender]

No closure just yet.....I am putting the money together now. I had paid my college tuition a couple of weeks ago, and I have a cruise this coming week(I'll be in New Orleans for a day as well).....add to this that I work part time at a pizza place, I still have to wait a few more weeks before I have the cash. I get excited everytime I think about it.......I hope the horn doesn't let me down. I'll be going back armed with more information(thanks to the posters here), which will help me out.

But I can't wait for the cruise! We(the college big band) will be playing on the boat...

I'll keep you guys updated as things move along.

[Knight Ender]

Ok, a few months later.......


I went into the shop today, and started talking to the fellow working there. I checked the serial #, 351xxx(roughly 1952). The toneholes looked good, it felt really nice mechanically too. There are a number of dents on the bow, and the lip of the bell. The neck is also a bit out of wack, having been through the pull down. But when I played it........oh man! It ripped. I had to get it. The guy lowered the price based on the condition to $300. I found that a hard price to beat. The pads all look alright, so I'll be looking at getting the dents removed....but I already want to retire my Cannonball Tenor after 4 hours of 10M goodness.


My metal Rousseau mpc works extremely well on it, which is a huge plus. I didn't want to go on another hunt.......


And Thanks for all the help!

[MojoBari]

Sounds like you handled this well... at least $100 well! Congrats!

[OnyxSax]

It's pretty hard to kill off a 10M. Mine is a 354,xxx which was completely abused in a Texas high school music program. It had been relacquered, maybe even twice. It cost me $320 on eBay. I dropped another $375 in getting it repaired, and in the end wound up with a very strong horn. Right now, it serves as my "emergency" horn, that I keep at the office in the event I get a gig call and can't get back home to pick up one of my first-line horns. It's also the "stunt double" horn that I use on outdoor gigs as well.

[super20dan]

my 10 m is also an ex school horn and my back-up and outdoor gig horn.love the sound -hate the clumsy -slow keywork!

[Knight Ender]

my 10 m is also an ex school horn and my back-up and outdoor gig horn.love the sound -hate the clumsy -slow keywork!

I find the keywork pretty quick...the more I play on it, the more surprised I am. It's a solid horn that just needs some spiffing up.

I played it today in Big Band, and my director didn't have anything bad to say about. I'm happy with it.

[Zman]

Well, that's a good ending, man. Sounds like you got a great axe for not too much $! 8)

[Knight Ender]

I got a big thumbs up from my instructor in my lesson today. He wailed on it for a bit and said it is a really good horn. He said I should sell my Cannonball and use the money for something else, but I'm going to let my younger brother use it....he's been wanting to get into playing an instrument for a while now.

A big thanks to all the posters who helped me out with links, info, and advice.

[Morry]

A friend of mine who is an old player and retailer is selling his personal 10M that has the rolled tone holes, and a beautiful relacquer. The engraving is crisp and the horn is amazingly tight and feels like a million bucks. He's considering selling it, but I just bought some JK horns recently. Maybe I'll knock off a liquor store or something. I hate being poor!

[Knight Ender]

I hear you on the money!

I need to start saving up for a pro alto.......I think it would be neat to get a matching set.

[Knight Ender]

I figured I'd add some of my new questions now.


After having it for a good length of time, I don't think this horn is going to leave me any time soon. I still need to get the dent work done(but that should be pretty soon) and I was going over some things.

My metal Rousseau tunes pretty far out on the 10M compared to the CBall. I have been searching through a lot of posts and sites, but I'd like to know this; are the rousseaus made with a small chamber? I think the dents might cause a bit of trouble, but overall the intonation is solid when I pull out. I've been reading about Links working well on 10Ms, I think I may give a few a try. Are the "plain"(not NY or Millenium) Links the continuation of the STM?From many posts and sites it seems so. If anyone can shed some light on that, I'd be grateful. It seems like a vintage Link would be the best bet, but for a college student with less money, would a good current metal Link work well? I know that Runyons have been suggested by some users, but I didn't have a lot of luck with a Custom on my alto....

Hope that post isn't too hard to decipher, I know that I was jumping all over the place with ideas. :)

And as always, any help is appreciated.

[shmuelyosef]

I have never owned a 10M, but I have worked on quite a few for some locals. Many of them played sharp with my test mouthpieces, but the owners pieces worked...the two that I remember used very large chamber pieces...one used a Morgan 'L' and the other used an older Meyer that had a huge chamber...inner walls rounded out pretty substantially. Rousseau makes a few mouthpieces so it's hard to comment, but the ones that I have seen (jazz models) fall in the 'medium chamber' category.

[Mike Cesati]

There is MUCH debate here about the Conn's and mpcs. Speaking from some experience the larger chamber without a high or wedge type baffle work the best for overall pitch,and in my opinion tone quality.

[kevvieg]

I find that my mouthpieces have to be placed awfully close to the tip, so I am considering a neck extension. I play on a 10M 341,xxx, and I think it's a killer horn. For mouthpieces I have a Florida HR Link 8* that was refaced by Jon Van Wie. I also have a Barone Hollywood 8*, which I don't consider a high baffle piece. They both sound amazing. I never thought I'd want a Conn after having played a couple of bad Chu models, but with this one it was love at first play.