when is it time to go from student sax to serious business ?

[george_mcfly]

...do you go directly from student to pro sax ? after how many years of practice did YOU buy a more expensive piece of equipment?
I've been playing for one and a half years, i own a Jupiter alto and a Keilwerth tenor both student models (i also own a lot of debts). I switched very early to the otto link metal mpc (the original mpc's that come with the saxes are crap i think). I was wondering if any other beginners switched to metal mpc's in their early years of practice.
I might be considering saving up in order to get myself a brand new spanking pro model sax...is it too early yet? i'm just asking for advice and please don't tell me it depends (i know it depends) ... by relating your own experience it could help me see a bit more clear.

thanks.

[1saxman]

Depends on your career path; if you plan to play jazz, etc., you may see the need for a premium horn when you start to get paid for playing. If you will be more of the academic, studying legitimate music, the need for a better sax will make itself known largely through tone and intonation problems. Make sure you try any potential new horn extensively to determine if it helps problems you are experiencing. Take someone with you to witness this that is familiar with your playing, like your teacher or director. Sometimes it's your set-up (mouthpiece, reed, ligature) that needs work. It could be problems with your horn. I guess I'm trying to say that you sound like a younger player, and you shouldn't be concerned about a premium horn until such time as you realize a real need for it. It's like, you get started in bicycling as a youngster and hope to ride the Tour someday. So, do you need Lance Armstrong's bike? Not yet. But, some day, you just might.

[Morry]

I was lucky to get a pro level Yamaha horn my third year of playing, and always felt lucky that I wasn't fighting an inferior horn while trying to learn. Make the move as soon as you can afford it.

[Razzy]

I'm lucky enough to have a school-loaned mark VI tenor, YSS-475 soprano sax, and I own my own Vito student model alto. The vito student is an exceptionally high quality horn for the price, most places sell them for about $500 or so I believe. It's a great transition horn to buy if you're saving up for a more expensive one. I for example am saving up for a mark VI that is reserved for me and I intend to buy it in October.

[Dave Dolson]

George: There are no rules. I like top-flight saxophones that not only play well but look nice. I have a closet-full of good, pro-level horns. When I started playing some 47 years ago, there was no such thing as a student-level soprano (the saxophone I started with), so I bought what my Mom could afford and took it from there. I upgraded as my salary/carrer improved.

But one of the hottest players I've ever heard in my kind of music plays a piece of junk I'd never put my mouthpiece on. It isn't the equipment - it is the player. DAVE

[M Exner]

I agree Dave but when you have "young" players involved, sometimes it's the clunker saxes that prevail.

I started on a real clunker sax. Grandma's attic sax (the green padded air sieve Wurlitzer) that prevailed over me until I finally bought a new Bundy. Until that happened, was when real and significant progress occurred.

Yes, a seasoned player could probably have picked up that Wurlitzer organ and blown the socks off me back then. Mike

[Silscio]

I kind of picture it backwards to many:

It seems like the beginners need the good horns and the pros don't. Of course, take this mentality with caution, it is quite general. The backing philosophy is that the kids learning(at least this is the way it is/was for me) need a solid instrument in order to successfully achieve some of the fundamentals such as subtone or popping out a low B without having a lung come out. I used to own a tank of a saxophone, a Voss, I just shudder when I hear the name--then I got myself a Yanagisawa T990, and immediately I began to grow at a much faster rate. I could focus more on learning music instead of forcing a terrible saxophone to cooperate.

And it certainly seems like the pro's are more adept at intonation and tone, so naturally a greater saxophone isn't necessarily required. Of course, there comes a point where it IS required and you need that top-notch horn just to achieve the music you want to play(remember I said my statement was general).

MY ADVICE== If you plan to continue to play saxophone, the sooner the better, the nicer the better.

[Ritchie]

Everyone benefits from a better instrument - regardless of the skill level. Pros and advanced players may even sound good on bad instruments, nevertheless they sound much better on a good instrument. Basic and only rule is, buy the best instrument you can afford. The only reasons why "student instruments" (equivalent to less quality and cost) exist is that beginners (or rather their parents) are often not sure whether they want to continue to play, therefore there is less investment required, and instruments are often treated very badly by kids who don't care much.

If you are serious about playing the sax get good instruments as soon as your savings/debts situation allows. Look for good used instruments to bring the costs down, but when fixing the price also consider repair costs.

[jazzbluescat]

All good advice, george_mcfly.

I'll say if your horn plays fairly well in tune, then the most important is to have a good mouthpiece(I wouldn't go overboard with a "designer" piece).
A good player can do well with a "crappy" horn and good mpc; but, the reverse is not normally true.
I've been blessed, except for 'bout three years, with Mark VI horns for the past 45 years, starting with junior high school's horn(s).

[Fred]

Upgrade when your pocketbook and your interest warrant it.

But bear in mind that you can get some really fine used saxophones in very good playing condition for $600-1200. They won't be all bright and scratch-free, but then you need to decide whether it's your saxophone that needs upgrading or your pride that needs stroking. Hope you don't take offense at that, but it is a legitimate issue to consider. I've seen school students turn up their noses at used pro horns in favor of a brand new Jupiter.

[steve]

Some sage once said " nothing succeeds like success"...the better you sound the more you will want to practice and perform. Get the best setup you can afford. I got my MVI tenor, new, when I was 18 with gig money....still have it. I think the horn it replaced is hanging on a wall somewhere.

[george_mcfly]

steve, i particularly agree with your point of view especially since i play quite a lot and i'm beginning to find my sax lacks reponsiveness (although part of that might be the actual player i agree) and has an average tone (it sounds okay i guess but i could do with a little boost).
All in all, i wouldn't mind investing in a quality sax (Keilwerth SX 90 looks fine to me)...plus i already have a good mpc and ligature (metal link and FL lig) :wink:

[Lambik]

All in all, i wouldn't mind investing in a quality sax (Keilwerth SX 90 looks fine to me)...plus i already have a good mpc and ligature (metal link and FL lig) :wink:

That's something good :) I had more difficulties to start playing on a different mouthpiece (Jupiter brand > Selmer C**, which was a great boost on my Jupitersax) than playing on a different alto sax (Jupiter > Series 80 II).

The first is an adjustement in teethpositioning (not an easy task if you're a teenage boy with those awful metal thingies in your mouth) and blowing, the latter is, I feel, a changement in accepting that a certain sax has a certain basic sound and that some pads are a bit other than on your first sax.

Good luck with your new sax :), but keep that other sax around, it might come in handy when you need to go marching, or your other sax is unavailable because of a repair.

[Funky Chicken]

I found out, That the sax itself is not making much of a diffrence to the general playing. I think the main thing in picking a sax is that you like it, And finally getting used to it. I think when speakin pro horns, It doesn't matter if you play JK, Selmer, Yamaha or yanagisawa, Its just what youre personlised with and got used to. I know a top Jazz artist who's sax was stolen and he bought a student sax because he didnt have any money, And believe me, What a sound he makes out of his horn!
I don't think you NEED to buy a good sax if youre being paid. I think that 70-80% of the playing is you, How much you practiced, And how familiar you are with your saxophone.

[Sigmund451]

There are no rules. Im a beginner...but I played strings for many years. Id say the bottom line is that if you are happy enough with how it sounds to still be inspired to play and learn then dig your way out of debt and use your money wisely.

On the other hand, if your horn is sounding like a tin monkey wound up then ditch it. As for a brand new horn....unless your gonna go ape *#^&$ then go vintage, but more recent vintage like a 50's martin or buescher. You can grab a lot for well under a grand and have a nice sounding horn. If you want a brand new pro horn prepare to make a car payment. My Pro horn overhauled (1958 Martin) cost me less than a retail Yamaha student horn...and it looks good too.

As for the metal mpc...if you like it play it. There is no rule that says you have to be a pro to play a link or any other mpc. A good setup is a nice thing but it doesnt have to break you...especially if you do your research. Just enjoy and play.