When does a player hit his prime?

[brian91301]

You know how most pro athletes hit their athletic peak in their late 20's or earlier 30's. I know this may be a stupid (or a philosphical) question...... but in your opinion, around what age do you think a saxophone player hits his prime when it comes to his overall sound, technique, and ability.

[BlueNote]

It's similar to how an athelete hits his prime: practice. As far as a sax player goes, same deal. It comes naturally for some. Usually, if you're just starting to play jazz (for example), sooner or later you get infected with the "bug" (that makes you go out and listen to everything and play). That's when everything starts to expand.

For some, like me, it only takes a 2-3 years to hit your prime.

[Razzy]

Depends on how far you want to go and on what scale you're measuring. Clifford Brown hit his prime in his early 20's. But that's only because he was sadly killed... who knows how far he would've gone. Most serious professional musicians who continue to grow musically through practice and experience will continue having a greater "prime" as their life goes on! Wynton Marsalis was a virtuoso at the age of 19. Now he's like a virtuoso times a thousand. See what I mean?

For great musicians, it seems, nothing can keep them from getting better but drugs or death.

[steve]

Sam Butera and Stanley Turrentine are examples of sax players that hit their prime...and then keep/kept on getting better with age. I think I'm a better player at 59 than I was at 19. The real question, I think, is at what age does practice,experience, and talent give way to the physical limitations of aging? With Bix, it was 26...for the rest of us, I would suggest that if a player is otherwise healthy, somewhere in the 80's.

[MS]

I think there's at least two issues at work here. One is physical strength/flexibility/co-ordination/ability to develop exact muscle memory. The other is experience/common sense/maintaining physical tone and endurance. I suspect the physical part is going to be at max around age 25 for most males.

I thnk that what has been developed by the mid twenties can be maintained through the mid 50's for athletic types except for endurance. Just have to become smarter in terns of time efficiency and endurance.

For musicians the experience factor and willingness to keep learning is important.

I've seen elderly musicians being helped on stage who once there go through a transformation to vibrant exciting players who seem to lose thirty or foty years of age can amaze and dazzle the audience. After their performance, they're helped off stage and return to their elderly musician/statesman role. That's intelligence in the use of energy and the experience factor.

A good example might be someone like Art Blakey. How many of todays top musicians grew and gained experience through Blakey's mentorship? On stage Blakey was in his element and never lacked energy to do what he needed to do. Who knows if or how he paced his use of energy. I'm sure there are a lot of others, but Blakey was a force that came to mind.

Perhaps "Sweets" Edison, and Benny Carter are among other examples of musicians that just got better with age and experience.

[Dr G]

I think there's at least two issues at work here. One is physical strength/flexibility/co-ordination/ability to develop exact muscle memory. The other is experience/common sense/maintaining physical tone and endurance. I suspect the physical part is going to be at max around age 25 for most males.

I've seen elderly musicians being helped on stage who once there go through a transformation to vibrant exciting players who seem to lose thirty or foty years of age can amaze and dazzle the audience. After their performance, they're helped off stage and return to their elderly musician/statesman role. That's intelligence in the use of energy and the experience factor.

... either that or one doesn't need to use the same muscles for walking/running/jumping as one uses to play an instrument.

Consider also that, aside from muscle memory and strength development, there are issues of using the brain. Even reasonably bright young scientists pale in comparison to an aged peer that has the benefit of years in the field.

Peak years? Quite possibly the last several decades (or more) of one's life. I have seen very few truly great musicians under 30 - and even those people will become considerably better with time.

[MS]

I would call using the brain the experience factor. And probably the acumulation and use of knowledge as common sense.
Some things get better just by living longer.

What's that old story about the 16 year old who can't believe how stupid his parents are. And also can't believe how much they've learned when he reaches 21. :D

[Sigmund451]

This is an odd string. I would suggest that only time...a view from hindsight can say when a musician hits his prime.

This isnt football. Its music. To look at it in this fashion as opposed to a lifelong learning process of hearing, listening, and experiencing I think diminishes the very nature of art. Its like asking when a painter or a writer hits his prime. I would suggest that a great artist, player, can be in his prime so long as he can draw a breath and hold a horn.

If it were in the lungs every highschool kid would be in his prime and the rest of us would be has beens....

May as well ask when a male hits his sexual prime...yea it might be in his teens...but can he make a woman sing? (no offense ladies)

This is just off base...no offense intended. I just think this needs to be rethought.

[Zman]

May as well ask when a male hits his sexual prime...yea it might be in his teens...but can he make a woman sing?

"Come here, you little zipperneck." (Madeline Kahn, we miss you!)

For jazz cats, perspective and depth is like wine and cheese, baby...just gets better with age. 8)

[mark_m]

For me, the more important factor is the creative peak, which is often completely separate from the physical peak.

Some artists remain creatively vibrant, some increasingly so, well beyond their technical prowess peak. With others it's quite the opposite, they have an early creative blast then gradually become techno-giants with diminishing creative power.

[Riff]

Never

[Zman]

I dig Riff's answer.

[Dr G]

So is Riff optimistic - that one is ever-improving - or pessimistic - that, try as you might, you'll never get there??? :idea:

[Riff]

As long as one tries, one will be ever-improving; but there is no end-point to the skill one may acquire.

[Dr G]

From our previous exchanges over the years, that was what I believed you meant. :wink:

Go for the Tone,

George

:borg:

[AMASAX]

for sax/jazz dudes, prime is hit about 10 years after they're DEAD...at least, that's what the public seems to think 8)

[Subtone Sam]

For some, like me, it only takes a 2-3 years to hit your prime.

...and cheers to that :D !

[JL]

I think Riff is onto the answer. Otherwise, what happens after you reach your prime (in only 2-3 years???!!!--that sounds delusional to me)? Is it all downhill from there? If so, do your really want to hit your prime?

[Zman]

for sax/jazz dudes, prime is hit about 10 years after they're DEAD...at least, that's what the public seems to think 8)

Yeah baby! :D I'm gonna have my tenor-shaped tombstone read:

HERE LIES ZMAN

FINALLY IN HIS PRIME

TRY TO PROVE OTHERWISE

HE'S GOT PLENTY OF TIME

:mrgreen:

[Morry]

If you keep working, it's just before you die.