Low E / D harder on tenor than alto or soprano... why?

[thehighend]

I have long wondered this, but never bothered to post about it. On alto, low E and D seem to pop out pretty easily, but I haven't found a mpc/reed/sax combination on tenor that makes it nearly as easy as on alto (or as easy as it is soprano, for that matter). For a long while I just thought it was my tenor being out of adjustment, but I've tried many tenors in recent years, and I experience the same across horns and mouthpieces.

Do you too find that lows on tenor (think low D and E) pop out as easily as on alto? Maybe my embouchure is permanently in the alto mode, due to playing only alto for a couple decades.

[Chris Peryagh]

I've found I do need a lot more breath support on tenor compared to the others (sop, alto and bari) for the low E and D to stop them bubbling.

I think it may have something to do with the shape of the bore - usually bubbling occurs when the upper part of the bore or crook is wide in comparison to the rest of the instrument (in that the angle of the conical section is narrower in comparison to an alto - I don't know how best to describe this) - this is true with oboes that have an enlarged top joint bore - the notes from E downwards become unstable and bubble, and as saxes also have a conical bore the same may apply - the angle of the cone may be narrow making it wide at the top end in comparison to alto.

You can see on soprano saxes the top part of the body has been narrowed pretty noticeably in order to help this (and to help with the tuning) - Selmer SA80II sopranos have a different angled section (it's more tapered than the rest of the bore) above the high F# tonehole and Yamahas have a waist at this point, with a narrower bore at the top.

[sycc]

Tenor 2 in big band charts is harder then the other sax parts because of playing low on the tenor. One of the reasons my daughter uses a SX-90 tenor is because the wide bell bow helps the low notes.

[Consider the Source]

I play primarily tenor and have few problems with the low E and D. I do sometimes have problems with the B and Bb but I find long tones help with that a lot.

On alto all these notes just happen with no problem at all.

I'm not sure about all that stuff about the cone being bored though...

[Chris Peryagh]

The old Artia (Czech) oboes were a copy of the Orsi, but the Artias had a huge top joint bore compared to modern oboes and other oboes made at the same time as them, and they were the most unstable ones going. B&H Regent oboes suffered the same thing too.

But for saxes, the older Corton/Lafleur/King Lemaire/Musica/B&H 400 (Amati again) and B&S Sonora/Weltklang/Elkhart/B&M Champion/Berg Larsen/etc, altos were notorously bad for bubbling from low E downwards - they had a fairly narrow bore, but the cone didn't expand to the same degree as compared to a Selmer or Yamaha - so the crook and upper part of the bore was wide in relation to the whole instrument.

[thehighend]

Is there a general consensus that using an open-tip soft-reed combination makes it more difficult to play low compared to a closed-tip hard-reed combination?

[bfoster64]

In my experience, softer reeds make low notes easier on almost any mpc. The trick is to find the reed and tip opening combination that make a nice tone at both high and low ends of the horn. If the reed is too hard, the resistance will not allow low notes to speak easily. A soft reed will subtone on the lows with just a whisper of air, but then it will sound weak in the high end.

[Razzy]

You shouldn't have problems with any low notes on any saxophone unless your setup is too hard or you have leaks.

[Thomas]

You shouldn't have problems with any low notes on any saxophone unless your setup is too hard or you have leaks.

or you're not providing proper airstream/support--learn to blow from your diaphram....or you need to loosen up your embrochure....or you're not opening your throat....or you aren't taking enough mouthpiece in...or you should just practice more after you've taken your horn in for a leak check.
The low end of the tenor is a joy to play.....I always wonder why so many worry about playing altissimo when they can't fill up the bottom of the horn.

[mountainman]

or you're not providing proper airstream/support--learn to blow from your diaphram....or you need to loosen up your embrochure....or you're not opening your throat....or you aren't taking enough mouthpiece in...or you should just practice more after you've taken your horn in for a leak check.
The low end of the tenor is a joy to play.....I always wonder why so many worry about playing altissimo when they can't fill up the bottom of the horn.

Thomas has it nailed! Most beginning tenor players and alto players switching to tenor have the same problem from D on down. I'm working with one right now (alto player). They just think they are going to pick up the horn and be a tenor player.

They first need the wind to fill the horn and then develop the daiphram control to provide low flow at high pressure. They also need to go with a reasonable setup not try to play wide tips and stiff reeds just because someone else does. (.090 mouthpiece and a #2 reed is good for a start)

All four components, (tight horn right, mouthpiece, good reed and breath control) will allow you to whisper on the low notes. A few decades of practice dosent hurt!