64sax
08-21-2006, 11:13 AM
Some Jupiter Soprano reviews I came across (Artist 847 and Deluxe 547 by David Boyles), which may be of interest:
Artist Series 847:
27 November, 2005 by David Boyles
I am an avid amateur and play mainly soprano sax, but also fiddle around with the alto and tenor (we currently have a Yanagisawa SC991 curved soprano, 2X Jupiter JAS969 altos, and a Jupiter JTS989 tenor and previously owned a Yamaha YSS-62 straight soprano and YAS-62 alto). Recently I decided to add a baritone to our collection of saxophones (for nostalgia reasons as I played baritone in high school about a hundred years ago). To make a long story short, I rediscovered why all my friends in high school felt sorry for me – the bari is a huge, cumbersome horn – and at my age simply not a horn I want to lug around and play.
So I took the bari back to the guys at Melbourne Brass & Woodwind and decided that I would have a look at some new sops. As a start, I took home the Jupiter JPS-847 silver Artist series straight soprano. I had also intended to try out the top end Selmers and Yamahas. Well, the next day I stopped looking and just bought it. Why would I do that given that I have a Yanagisawa SC991? And how does it compare to the Yani, which sells for substantially more?
Naturally, before I buy a horn I play it extensively, but I also run a number of objective intonation and spectrum analysis tests in addition to a set of “blind” listening tests (the listener doesn’t know which horn is playing). For the blind listening tests, we used one R&B song (The Dock of the Bay by Otis Redding and Steve Cropper), one classical song (Theme from Symphony#1 by Brahms) and finally one very simple spiritual melody (Wayfaring Stranger). I recorded all three in stereo with a pair of professional microphones (RODE NT5s) and a Roland Corporation Edirol UA-25 audio capture AD/DA converter. Cakewalk Sonar software was utilized to capture the audio. The recordings were played back over Roland Edirol MA-15 digital studio monitors (connected via optical link to the computer). This setup is (except for the microphones) entirely digital and thus introduces almost no noise. In essence, the recording is pretty much exactly what you played. Cakewalk Sonar allows you to quickly switch back and forth between tracks for the listening tests. The same hardware setup was used for the intonation logs and informal spectrum analysis. In terms of software, Wtune was used to capture intonation logs and Gtune plus VSI32 for spectrum analysis.
On the blind listening tests, my eldest daughter (classical guitarist) preferred the Yanagisawa, which she described as more smooth/silky. My youngest daughter (alto & tenor sax player) preferred the Jupiter as she thought it was more brassy & jazzy. They were consistent in their choices across the melodies. Funny thing - I agree with them both. I like both horns because they do sound different. The Yana was very smooth sounding, though seemingly thin on very high note harmonics while the Jupiter definitely sounded more brassy and perhaps “sultry”. It also seems to have a more full sound on the highest notes. By the way, I used the bent crook on the Jupiter as it made the handling of the horn more comfortable and natural feeling for me. I didn’t run the tests with the straight neck.
What about the results of the quantitative tests? The Yanagisawa has outstanding intonation as logged over a two octave C major scale, with deviation from perfect pitch in most cases of +/- 4 cents and the worst couple of notes at only about +/- 6 cents. The only other sax I have tested that is this good is theJupiter JTS-989 tenor we bought a few months ago! Anyway, sopranos are notoriously out of tune, so my expectations for the JPS-847 were low. I was pleasantly surprised, as the deviations with the exception of one note were only about +/- 8 cents. D6 was +10-12 cents out of tune. Frankly, these are pretty good numbers for any sax and outstanding for a soprano. I find most saxes I have tested are about +15 cents or greater on D6 and E6, sometimes including F6 and G6 (this includes altos and tenors).
With regard to spectrum analysis, I don’t run sophisticated comparisons, I just eyeball the harmonics across the two octave C major scale comparing each note on the respective horns. There wasn’t much difference in the strength or number of the harmonics, except on the very high notes where I give the Jupiter a slight edge.
In conclusion, these are two very different horns in terms of qualitative sound. On quantitative measures they are both excellent. I find each is a joy to play and will use both regularly. So if you like curved horns, it is hard to find anything better than the Yani SC991. And if you like straight horns, the Jupiter seems to be a very well made and beautiful sounding instrument for a quite reasonable price. It is also beautiful to look at, hold and play. By the way, this is the first Jupiter sax I have ever purchased where I haven’t felt compelled to throw away the case. Unlike the ridiculously cheap and ugly “backpack” cases that come with the 900 series alto and tenors (and the other 800 Artist series horns), this case is very well built. It is professional looking with lots of storage space for accessories and still manages to be compact in size. When you are trying out those very expensive top end Selmers and Yamahas, you should give this horn a fair go. You might be pleasantly surprised!
Rating: [5 out of 5 Stars!]
( http://www.ozwinds.com.au/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=71&reviews_id=29 )
Deluxe Series 547:
19 December, 2005 by David Boyles
I recently reviewed the Jupiter JPS-847 Artist series soprano sax and posted the results on brassandwoodwind.com.au. That review included qualitative (blind listening samples) and quantitative (intonation logging) tests plus spectrum analysis of harmonics. For comparative purposes, I used a Yanagisawa SC991 curved soprano, an instrument many consider to be the best of the sopranos. I liked the JPS-847 so much that I purchased it! If you want to read the review, just go to the JPS-847 product page.
Recently, Brian & Matt of Melbourne Brass and Woodwind were kind enough to arrange the use of a Jupiter JPS-547 for me to run through the same set of tests. To summarise the test programme: The same mouthpiece (Yanagisawa 5) and reed (Vandoren V16 #2.5) were used on both horns (NOTE: I had previously used a Selmer C* and Vandoren standard #3.0 reeds for the comparison between the JPS-847 and Yanagisawa SC991 but have now switched to this combination as the tested intonation shows less variation across two octaves). For the blind listening tests, I changed two of the melodies from the previous tests. I recorded one classical song (La Cinquantaine by Gabriel-Marie), one popular song (You Only Live Twice by Leslie Bricusse & John Barry) and finally one very simple spiritual melody (Wayfaring Stranger). I recorded all three songs in stereo with a pair of professional microphones (RODE NT5s) and a Roland Corporation Edirol UA-25 audio capture AD/DA converter. Cakewalk Sonar software was utilized to capture the audio. The recordings were played back over Roland Edirol MA-15 digital studio monitors (connected via optical link to the computer). This setup is (except for the microphones) entirely digital and thus introduces almost no noise. In essence, the recording is pretty much exactly what you play. Cakewalk Sonar permits fast switching between tracks for the blind listening tests. You can also cut and paste sections, interleaving the two horns. The same hardware setup was used for the intonation logs. In terms of software, I use Wtune to capture intonation logs and Gtune along with VSI32 for spectrum analysis.
Before discussing the results, I should note the obvious physical similarities and differences in the horns. The 847 is silver plated and comes with two solid sterling silver necks (one straight, one bent), while the 547 is a single piece, straight horn. Though the 547 is a nice looking horn, the 847 is stunning in silver body and brass mechanisms. The 547 has a plain “Jupiter” engraved on the bell, while the 847 has a nice leaf or floral pattern engraved around the Jupiter name. The 847 has an added high G key not present on the 547 (both have high F# keys). The 847 has a brass thumb hook, while the 547 has a plastic thumb hook. Finally, the octave mechanisms are of necessity different in order to handle the removable necks of the 847. With the exception of the noted differences, the horns are pretty much exactly the same including dimensions, key mechanisms, pads, tone boosters, etc. On visual inspection, the key mechanisms and related parts appear to be fully interchangeable (except of course the octave & high G mechanisms as noted above). Thus, you would expect the two horns to sound much alike (allowing for whatever differences the silver plating and the solid silver straight & bent necks of the JPS-847 might produce).
Please note that there is a substantial price differential on the instruments, and in Australia you can expect to spend up an additional $1000+ or so to purchase the 847 versus the 547. Yet another $1000 would be needed to upgrade from the 847 to the curved Yanagisawa SC991 that I use as a reference horn for my tests. So, on to the results:
On the blind listening tests, my two daughters form my panel as they are young (good hearing) and both are talented school musicians (one plays classical guitar & cello and the other plays alto & tenor sax plus viola & piano). On preference tests, the two horns got equal votes (3 each across the six samples) with one daughter preferring the 847 in two out of three samples and the other preferring the 547 in two out of three samples. In short, these two instruments sound very, very similar. When I personally listened, I thought the 847 was a bit brighter and fuller on high notes, but then I knew which horn was played for each sample and I own an 847 – meaning that my opinion just might be prejudiced!!!
On the intonation logs over a two octave C major scale, both horns performed very well (& particularly so after I changed from my previous test setup of a Selmer C* mouthpiece and #3 standard Vandoren reed to the current setup of Yanagisawa 5 mouthpiece and Vandoren V16 #2.5 reed). The intonation of each was mostly spot on with some notes varying about +/- 5 cents and in addition the 547 was 6 to 8 cents sharp on both D6 and C7 while the 847 was similar on D6, and accurate on C7 (horns tuned to C6). This is quite good in my opinion for a soprano and nearly as good as the best I have tested (the Yanagisawa SC991). As I noted in a previous review, the only other horn that tested better was our Jupiter JTS-989 tenor which has incredibly accurate intonation.
I usually perform a note by note spectrum analysis comparison, but in this case decided not to spend the time as the horns clearly sounded so similar.
In conclusion, these two horns are excellent sops and very, very similar in terms of both quantitative measures and qualitative sound. Nonetheless, I personally like the bent neck of the 847 and the overall beauty of the silver instrument. But I cannot factually claim that it sounds any better than its less expensive cousin, the 547. So what do you give up if you buy the JPS-547 instead of the JPS-847? The answer is: Stunning silver body, two solid silver necks (one straight, one bent), floral engraving on the bell, high G key, brass thumb hook, and lastly a smaller case of a bit better quality (stitched edges rather than plastic molding).
But you do get to keep an extra thousand or so in the bank.
It’s your decision…but I’m keeping my JPS-847.
Rating: [4 out of 5 Stars!]
( http://www.ozwinds.com.au/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=70&reviews_id=30 )
Artist Series 847:
27 November, 2005 by David Boyles
I am an avid amateur and play mainly soprano sax, but also fiddle around with the alto and tenor (we currently have a Yanagisawa SC991 curved soprano, 2X Jupiter JAS969 altos, and a Jupiter JTS989 tenor and previously owned a Yamaha YSS-62 straight soprano and YAS-62 alto). Recently I decided to add a baritone to our collection of saxophones (for nostalgia reasons as I played baritone in high school about a hundred years ago). To make a long story short, I rediscovered why all my friends in high school felt sorry for me – the bari is a huge, cumbersome horn – and at my age simply not a horn I want to lug around and play.
So I took the bari back to the guys at Melbourne Brass & Woodwind and decided that I would have a look at some new sops. As a start, I took home the Jupiter JPS-847 silver Artist series straight soprano. I had also intended to try out the top end Selmers and Yamahas. Well, the next day I stopped looking and just bought it. Why would I do that given that I have a Yanagisawa SC991? And how does it compare to the Yani, which sells for substantially more?
Naturally, before I buy a horn I play it extensively, but I also run a number of objective intonation and spectrum analysis tests in addition to a set of “blind” listening tests (the listener doesn’t know which horn is playing). For the blind listening tests, we used one R&B song (The Dock of the Bay by Otis Redding and Steve Cropper), one classical song (Theme from Symphony#1 by Brahms) and finally one very simple spiritual melody (Wayfaring Stranger). I recorded all three in stereo with a pair of professional microphones (RODE NT5s) and a Roland Corporation Edirol UA-25 audio capture AD/DA converter. Cakewalk Sonar software was utilized to capture the audio. The recordings were played back over Roland Edirol MA-15 digital studio monitors (connected via optical link to the computer). This setup is (except for the microphones) entirely digital and thus introduces almost no noise. In essence, the recording is pretty much exactly what you played. Cakewalk Sonar allows you to quickly switch back and forth between tracks for the listening tests. The same hardware setup was used for the intonation logs and informal spectrum analysis. In terms of software, Wtune was used to capture intonation logs and Gtune plus VSI32 for spectrum analysis.
On the blind listening tests, my eldest daughter (classical guitarist) preferred the Yanagisawa, which she described as more smooth/silky. My youngest daughter (alto & tenor sax player) preferred the Jupiter as she thought it was more brassy & jazzy. They were consistent in their choices across the melodies. Funny thing - I agree with them both. I like both horns because they do sound different. The Yana was very smooth sounding, though seemingly thin on very high note harmonics while the Jupiter definitely sounded more brassy and perhaps “sultry”. It also seems to have a more full sound on the highest notes. By the way, I used the bent crook on the Jupiter as it made the handling of the horn more comfortable and natural feeling for me. I didn’t run the tests with the straight neck.
What about the results of the quantitative tests? The Yanagisawa has outstanding intonation as logged over a two octave C major scale, with deviation from perfect pitch in most cases of +/- 4 cents and the worst couple of notes at only about +/- 6 cents. The only other sax I have tested that is this good is theJupiter JTS-989 tenor we bought a few months ago! Anyway, sopranos are notoriously out of tune, so my expectations for the JPS-847 were low. I was pleasantly surprised, as the deviations with the exception of one note were only about +/- 8 cents. D6 was +10-12 cents out of tune. Frankly, these are pretty good numbers for any sax and outstanding for a soprano. I find most saxes I have tested are about +15 cents or greater on D6 and E6, sometimes including F6 and G6 (this includes altos and tenors).
With regard to spectrum analysis, I don’t run sophisticated comparisons, I just eyeball the harmonics across the two octave C major scale comparing each note on the respective horns. There wasn’t much difference in the strength or number of the harmonics, except on the very high notes where I give the Jupiter a slight edge.
In conclusion, these are two very different horns in terms of qualitative sound. On quantitative measures they are both excellent. I find each is a joy to play and will use both regularly. So if you like curved horns, it is hard to find anything better than the Yani SC991. And if you like straight horns, the Jupiter seems to be a very well made and beautiful sounding instrument for a quite reasonable price. It is also beautiful to look at, hold and play. By the way, this is the first Jupiter sax I have ever purchased where I haven’t felt compelled to throw away the case. Unlike the ridiculously cheap and ugly “backpack” cases that come with the 900 series alto and tenors (and the other 800 Artist series horns), this case is very well built. It is professional looking with lots of storage space for accessories and still manages to be compact in size. When you are trying out those very expensive top end Selmers and Yamahas, you should give this horn a fair go. You might be pleasantly surprised!
Rating: [5 out of 5 Stars!]
( http://www.ozwinds.com.au/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=71&reviews_id=29 )
Deluxe Series 547:
19 December, 2005 by David Boyles
I recently reviewed the Jupiter JPS-847 Artist series soprano sax and posted the results on brassandwoodwind.com.au. That review included qualitative (blind listening samples) and quantitative (intonation logging) tests plus spectrum analysis of harmonics. For comparative purposes, I used a Yanagisawa SC991 curved soprano, an instrument many consider to be the best of the sopranos. I liked the JPS-847 so much that I purchased it! If you want to read the review, just go to the JPS-847 product page.
Recently, Brian & Matt of Melbourne Brass and Woodwind were kind enough to arrange the use of a Jupiter JPS-547 for me to run through the same set of tests. To summarise the test programme: The same mouthpiece (Yanagisawa 5) and reed (Vandoren V16 #2.5) were used on both horns (NOTE: I had previously used a Selmer C* and Vandoren standard #3.0 reeds for the comparison between the JPS-847 and Yanagisawa SC991 but have now switched to this combination as the tested intonation shows less variation across two octaves). For the blind listening tests, I changed two of the melodies from the previous tests. I recorded one classical song (La Cinquantaine by Gabriel-Marie), one popular song (You Only Live Twice by Leslie Bricusse & John Barry) and finally one very simple spiritual melody (Wayfaring Stranger). I recorded all three songs in stereo with a pair of professional microphones (RODE NT5s) and a Roland Corporation Edirol UA-25 audio capture AD/DA converter. Cakewalk Sonar software was utilized to capture the audio. The recordings were played back over Roland Edirol MA-15 digital studio monitors (connected via optical link to the computer). This setup is (except for the microphones) entirely digital and thus introduces almost no noise. In essence, the recording is pretty much exactly what you play. Cakewalk Sonar permits fast switching between tracks for the blind listening tests. You can also cut and paste sections, interleaving the two horns. The same hardware setup was used for the intonation logs. In terms of software, I use Wtune to capture intonation logs and Gtune along with VSI32 for spectrum analysis.
Before discussing the results, I should note the obvious physical similarities and differences in the horns. The 847 is silver plated and comes with two solid sterling silver necks (one straight, one bent), while the 547 is a single piece, straight horn. Though the 547 is a nice looking horn, the 847 is stunning in silver body and brass mechanisms. The 547 has a plain “Jupiter” engraved on the bell, while the 847 has a nice leaf or floral pattern engraved around the Jupiter name. The 847 has an added high G key not present on the 547 (both have high F# keys). The 847 has a brass thumb hook, while the 547 has a plastic thumb hook. Finally, the octave mechanisms are of necessity different in order to handle the removable necks of the 847. With the exception of the noted differences, the horns are pretty much exactly the same including dimensions, key mechanisms, pads, tone boosters, etc. On visual inspection, the key mechanisms and related parts appear to be fully interchangeable (except of course the octave & high G mechanisms as noted above). Thus, you would expect the two horns to sound much alike (allowing for whatever differences the silver plating and the solid silver straight & bent necks of the JPS-847 might produce).
Please note that there is a substantial price differential on the instruments, and in Australia you can expect to spend up an additional $1000+ or so to purchase the 847 versus the 547. Yet another $1000 would be needed to upgrade from the 847 to the curved Yanagisawa SC991 that I use as a reference horn for my tests. So, on to the results:
On the blind listening tests, my two daughters form my panel as they are young (good hearing) and both are talented school musicians (one plays classical guitar & cello and the other plays alto & tenor sax plus viola & piano). On preference tests, the two horns got equal votes (3 each across the six samples) with one daughter preferring the 847 in two out of three samples and the other preferring the 547 in two out of three samples. In short, these two instruments sound very, very similar. When I personally listened, I thought the 847 was a bit brighter and fuller on high notes, but then I knew which horn was played for each sample and I own an 847 – meaning that my opinion just might be prejudiced!!!
On the intonation logs over a two octave C major scale, both horns performed very well (& particularly so after I changed from my previous test setup of a Selmer C* mouthpiece and #3 standard Vandoren reed to the current setup of Yanagisawa 5 mouthpiece and Vandoren V16 #2.5 reed). The intonation of each was mostly spot on with some notes varying about +/- 5 cents and in addition the 547 was 6 to 8 cents sharp on both D6 and C7 while the 847 was similar on D6, and accurate on C7 (horns tuned to C6). This is quite good in my opinion for a soprano and nearly as good as the best I have tested (the Yanagisawa SC991). As I noted in a previous review, the only other horn that tested better was our Jupiter JTS-989 tenor which has incredibly accurate intonation.
I usually perform a note by note spectrum analysis comparison, but in this case decided not to spend the time as the horns clearly sounded so similar.
In conclusion, these two horns are excellent sops and very, very similar in terms of both quantitative measures and qualitative sound. Nonetheless, I personally like the bent neck of the 847 and the overall beauty of the silver instrument. But I cannot factually claim that it sounds any better than its less expensive cousin, the 547. So what do you give up if you buy the JPS-547 instead of the JPS-847? The answer is: Stunning silver body, two solid silver necks (one straight, one bent), floral engraving on the bell, high G key, brass thumb hook, and lastly a smaller case of a bit better quality (stitched edges rather than plastic molding).
But you do get to keep an extra thousand or so in the bank.
It’s your decision…but I’m keeping my JPS-847.
Rating: [4 out of 5 Stars!]
( http://www.ozwinds.com.au/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=70&reviews_id=30 )