Are 'pro quality' mpcs harder for the inexperienced to play?

[rogerb40uk]

Let's say I got a Lamberson 6DD/RPC 80B/JJ DV, with the same tip size as my current Vandoren mpc (0.075"), is there any reason why I should find it(them) harder to play?

One is frequently advised to "Develop your chops before getting a 'better' mpc !".
I just wondered if there is any reason for this, apart from the practical/financial possibility that, after more practice, one might be able to handle a wider tip, and could, therefore, 'outgrow' one's expensive replacement.

Some of these mpcs are described as 'very free-blowing' and 'suitable for all players' .... sounds ideal for the 'inexperienced' ;)

[Dave Dolson]

Roger: I'm of the opinion that the better the mouthpiece is suited for a new player, the more easy that player will develop. What could be more discouraging than a piece that is not suited for the player's embouchure (probably a cheap out-of-repair saxophone, I 'spose)?

But, beware of manufacturers' hype - just because their text says those things doesn't make them true. What they ALWAYS leave out is that everyone is different, so "easy-blowing" and "suitable for all players" is bunk. It may play easy for me but not for you. That is hardly being suitable for all players.

Next, you can't make the comparison that because mouthpiece X has a certain tip opening that mouthpiece Y (different manufacturer) with the same tip-opening will play the same (or better - or worse, for that matter). It doesn't work that way . . . chamber size, design of the lay, shape of the tip, size of the baffle - all those factors come into play, with the tip-opening being only one of many factors.

Bottom line? You gotta try them all yourself and not rely on someone esle to tell you what is good and what isn't. DAVE

[gary]

One is frequently advised to "Develop your chops before getting a 'better' mpc !"
Hogwash! Better? Better than what?

And I agree with Dave.

Actually, I don't recall ever hearing that from a credible source, BTW. But what might be behind such a statement is that many so-called pro mpcs have special features that might make certain aspects of playing not desirable for someone starting out, so it might be wise for them to wait before getting such a mpc. For example, some pro high-baffle, small chamber mpc's might have a newcomer struggling with too bright, perhaps shrill, sound that a seasoned player might better be able to deal with.

Also, from my reading on SOTW, I think there are those who seem to think that if a mpc is inexpensive, mass produced and doesn't have a sexy name, it is not a pro mpc and that is far from the truth. Maceo gets by just fine with an expensive Brilhart; many professional classical players get by with stock Selmers. In other words, these are already pro mpcs and for many, there is simply no reason to pay five times as much for a mpc with a cool name.

I might also add, that there are also a growing number of so-called "professional" mpcs with impressive names and high prices that are little better than stock Meyers, Bergs, Selmers or what have yous (caveat: you might have to try a handful of these before you find the pony in the pile). One would do well to disregard the hype.

[Mark5047]

The only reason I can think of to discourage someone from springing for an expensive piece during the 'training' period is students may find fault with their equipment instead of practicing long tones and all the other things that have to be done. In other words, look for the magic bullet to fix the problem that can only be fixed one way.
Also I think it is a myth that you need to 'work up' to a larger opening. Find an opening that works for you, that you dig the sound of and go with it!!

[JfW]

Hogwash! Better? Better than what?


Indeed.

There is no reason a beginner ought to be strapping inferior equipment to his neck. A beginner's mouthpiece must be competent and it must allow the player to play in tune and to generate tone easily. That isn't to say that all professional level equipment is suitable for most beginners. Some pro-level mpcs are poor, but besides for that, I don't know that it's appropriate to start beginners on wide-open peashooters until they acquire sufficient controll.

[sycc]

My daughters both use good mouthpieces on their good saxes. One uses Selmer C*s(soprano and alto);the other Rouseau NC 3s(tenor and alto). Beginners should stick to medium close mouthpieces w/ about a 65 to 75 tip opening. Easier to control.

[Grumps]

I'd consider a Vandoren to be a pro quality piece. More expensive doesn't equate to more professional.

[sycc]

Right on Grumps-there are some great inexpensive pieces out there.

[rogerb40uk]

I thought the term 'pro quality' might be challenged, but couldn't think of another way of saying it.
Maybe I should just have specified 'very expensive' ;)

I thank you all for your replies and have taken aboard the advice therein.
(Now, as my mother used to say, to "Sift it thru' a ladder, and think about following any which sticks to the rungs" :D )

The problems I have here in Spain are: 1. getting hold of mpcs on a trial basis, and 2. the potential extra costs of shipping, duty and taxes from non-European sources.
There are probably some 'top-quality' mpcs made here in Europe but they don't, IMO, get the level of publicity that US-made receive.

I guess I'll try to get hold of a couple to try when I am next in UK for a week or so.
(The sad thing about that is that it would rule out some of the 'custom-made' US pieces which aren't available from UK retailers. Not that I am ready for such a big step, yet...)

[gary]

Roger - Mike Duchstein in Berlin has a good assortment and he has a trial policy. http://www.saxophon-service.de/ You can send an email in English.

[Grumps]

I know I've said this before, but one of the best ways to try out mouthpieces is to use the trade boards and Ebay. You buy and/or trade for a second-hand piece, try it out, and if it doesn't work, you pass it along yourself. It's not a fast and easy process, but I managed to equip several horns with better matching mouthpieces over a two to three year period... then believe it or not... got out.

[rogerb40uk]

Roger - Mike Duchstein in Berlin has a good assortment and he has a trial policy. http://www.saxophon-service.de/ You can send an email in English.

Thanks, Gary, he does seem to have a 'good assortment'.

Have you dealt with him? How did it go?

[gary]

Thanks, Gary, he does seem to have a 'good assortment'. Have you dealt with him? How did it go?
Yes. Reliable, prompt, fair and good communications. I have no hesitation in dealing with him.

[Pinnman]

There's no need, in my view, to spend big money on a mouthpiece, but there is a need to go for reliability. My Barone, Morgan and Yani mpc's all come from makers who can be relied upon to deliver the goods every time... without breaking the bank. The Lamberson was a second hand, but not too pricey, luxury. I have got to this point much the same way as Grumps: trial and error with Ebay a useful way of finding out what I like. Be careful, though; it is not too easy to find buyers for unwanted mpc's in Europe and, with respect to those in the US, not many there will buy from overseas.

[Grumps]

Good point about Ebay overseas deals. That's another plus for this forum and its trade board. The folks get to know each other and deal overseas all the time. I've received (and sent) several mouthpieces through international trading with members here, though I avoid doing same on Ebay.

[rogerb40uk]

Well, I'm currently trying to buy a used Lamberson M, with 0.077 tip.

(Anxiously awaiting a response from the SOTW vendor!)

How do the 'Lamberson cognoscenti' think I might get along with that?

[Bootman]

Usually a better or Pro mpc will make it easier for a student to play. Some of the smaller tip opening or student mpcs so called are designed to make it easier but in reality do the opposite.

A good mpc is a mpc that makes it easier for the player, regardless of level of ability to get a nicer more refined tone on their instrument. This is typically noticed by parents, family members fairly quickly and by an increased desire to play the instrument more. When chosing any mpc, do so in conjunction with your teacher or let your own experience be your guide as to which way to proceed with a new mpc. If it hurts then perhaps this is your body's way of telling you that this isn't the mpc for you. If the sound is less than ideal or you can feel/ hear problems with your sound then move on to the next mpc. Also don't be afraid to think outside the box and check mpcs that others may have told you are no good. Different mpcs work well for some players and not for others, it has a lot to do with the way you're built. The size of your sinus cavity, chest cavity, level of mbouchure development and how much air you're putting down the instrument will dramatically affect your choice of mpc.

Good luck in the hunt and keep us informed as to your progress.

[rogerb40uk]

Well; I am now the delighted owner of the Lamberson M, mentioned above, and eagerly await its arrival.
(Thanks, Michael)
That mpc is doing the rounds of SOTWers, I think I'm the third owner :o
I do hope there's no sinister reason for this.... the clip Michael sent me certainly sounded good(much better than I ever expect to be!).

Thanks to everyone for their help.

[Pinnman]

I bought a Lamberson M from Mike; no problems at all. I think it's now all down to you. Your experience of this would be interesting to read.

[rogerb40uk]

Well, I don't think I have any unreasonable expectations, but at least it's nice to know I'll be using 'the best tool for the job', at least in the opinion of most who've tried it.

Of course, I don't think many of them are as new to the sax as I am (or as long in the tooth!.... Are long teeth a disadvantage? ), but we shall see.

[AlistairD]

Well; I am now the delighted owner of the Lamberson M, mentioned above, and eagerly await its arrival.
(Thanks, Michael)
That mpc is doing the rounds of SOTWers, I think I'm the third owner :o
I do hope there's no sinister reason for this.... the clip Michael sent me certainly sounded good(much better than I ever expect to be!).

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Roger,

Congrats. I'm sure you will like the Lamberson (from what I've read on SOTW anyway...) Let us know how you get on with it..

[rogerb40uk]

Roger,

Congrats. I'm sure you will like the Lamberson (from what I've read on SOTW anyway...) Let us know how you get on with it..

Well, it came today, and I can get a squeak-free sound from it, with a soft Vandoren reed. An encouraging start!

Too soon to say how I'll get on in the longer term, but I'm sure it will be as good a 'tool for the job' as anything else I could buy.

First impressions were that it's very free-blowing and LOUD, compared with my Vandoren :)
Also it's better-finished inside than I'd been led to expect.

[jwinterb]

Just to add my inexperienced opinion.
I have been playing for 18 months , I own 2 good quality Alto's and have used several mpc/ligature combos.
God, what a difference they can make !
The only way is to forget Brand,Price and hype, get into a large store and try some!
Dont underestimate the contribution to the sound that the Ligature can make, a combo that suits you will transform your playing.
Great forum , by the way.

[rogerb40uk]

Well, I've had it a few months now, and like it a lot.....it's certainly not difficult to blow :)
However, I'd still like to try something to help me attain a slightly more 'Sanbornish' bright edginess....if you know what I mean?

Maybe a 6DD or a JJ DV, if I can get hold of one or t'other.