Kohlert Regent - worth buying for a beginner?

[e.dan]

I am a true beginner, looking to buy my first tenor. I was shown a Kohlert Regent in a store today. Its s/n is 70xxx. According to http://www.saxpics.com/kohlert/serials.htm this would mean it was made around 1962. According to http://www.saxpics.com/kohlert/kohlert_models.htm by this time "Kohlert quality had taken an immense nosedive."

I like the idea of a vintage horn, though I have some inclination to buy a shiny new Yamaha or something.

My questions are:

Is this sax considered a "student" "intermediate" or "pro" model? How good is it?

What is it worth, assuming it's in decent shape?

Is this a good choice for a beginner, assuming I'd rather make a bit of an investment now, and avoid buying a better sax later?

[tjontheroad]

Welcome to the forum. As a newbie, you'd likely do better with a solid sax like the Yamahas or Kesslers. I have no experience with Koherts so others here maybe better to advise you there. Still, an older horn will likely require that it be worked on costing you even more cash than a good student sax in great shape.

Enjoy :)

[spiderjames]

I play Kohlert 55 stencils as my main horns right now, both alto and tenor. All the Kohlert and Kohlert stencils I have owned both alto and tenor have had better intonation than the other vintage saxes I have owned. I picked them over vintage Conns, Keilwerth New Kings, A Dolnet, a Hohner stencil, a Buescher 400, and a Martin Handcraft.

The Kohlerts made after 1960 are considered not to be as good as the earlier Kohlerts and I'm Not sure why. They look like a 57's with some slight keywork modifications and the 57 is considered to be the best Kohlert. Perhaps the quality control was lacking and they are more hit or miss, or something of that nature. I had an alto regent stencil that played fine. I started looking at Kohlerts again because I missed a Boosey and Hawkes alto that I sold. It also had excellent intonation. It was a regent stencil I believe.

I think if you like the horn, it has been put into good playable condition, the store will be willing to stand behind it, and the price is not too high, It would be a good choice.

As far as it being a Pro horn, I think the "Kohlert" models were supposed to be the pro models with the regents being more of an intermediate horn, But honestly I can't tell too much difference.

I've seen Kohlert 55's and 57's range in price on Ebay from under $500 to over $1400. Regent would sell quite a bit lower. Buying from a store is like buying a car from a dealer. You will pay more than a private sale but it's assumed (but check it out anyway) that the dealer has done some work to get it into the best possible shape. If you don't mind saying, what is the store's asking price?

[e.dan]

The store's asking price is about $1250. This is not in the US, and it's hard for me to gauge whether it should be less or more here - he said it's worth more than that, and actually the market here is more of a buyer's market since there is less demand, so it's a good price - not sure if I believe him. I also might be able to talk him down, but I'm looking for an idea of what is reasonable to pay.

[SAXISMYAXE]

As a devotee of vintage horns, it may surprise you to hear my recommendation in this matter:

Kohlert made some superior pro horns in their day, however for the beginner a stable, reliable platform to learn on is paramount. In this early stage, you won't be able to appreciate the tonal flexibility and nuances involved with such a horn, but you WILL be hampered by a horn that isn't, or has difficulty staying in, proper regulation, with leaks etc. Vintage horns do require some considerable knowledge to select a proper example/model, and technical finesse and maintenance which can be a hang up for the neophyte player.

If you go with a new or newish Yamaha or Kessler as recommended by others, you will have a much better chance in most cases of succeeding and staying with the learning process.

Save the careful selection of that "perfect fit" vintage horn for when you know how to play, what to look for, and know what you REALLY want.

[e.dan]

That sounds like pretty good advice. If I'm going to buy a new sax, then I'm wondering what to do, but I should probably post in a different sub-forum here.

I can afford something up to about $2000, but maybe I should save my money and get something cheaper, like maybe a Kessler? If I were to spend the full wad, I'd probably go with the Yani T901 since it looks to be the bast value for the money. But should I save my cash and spend something like $1000 on a new Kessler, and then in a couple of years I'll know better what to spend my money on?

[SAXISMYAXE]

The Yani 901 is a nice horn, but it may not be the be all/end all for you a few years down the road. Paying less than half that for a horn that will get you where you need to be in the learning department, will be as dependable for your current needs, and have enough to get a really good mouthpiece setup (equally important) with PLENTY left over might be the smarter way to go.

If you had $2000.00 and had enough experience and chops to know that the 901 was what you wanted in a horn for the long haul I'd say go for it. But since you are just starting out, the Kessler or a nice gently used Yamaha in good nic might be the best way to go right now. Mind you, that is just an opinion but one I feel hits the mark.

[e.dan]

I'm not really in the market for a used horn (unless I go vintage) since the market here is pretty scarce, and I don't want to buy something sight unseen. What do you recommend for a decent new horn? Is a Kessler my best bet? Keep in mind that I'm a "late bloomer" and I want to get something I can stick with for at least a few years...

[honkytone]

Also, $1,250 is a buttload of money for that horn, unless maybe it's been completely repadded, recorked, regulated, etc. Even then I'm not sure it's worth the price. For that money you could get from WWBW (if they still have any) a B&S Chicago Jazz tenor that would blow the Kohlert to kingom come.

[spiderjames]

That is too much $ for a Regent even with an rebuild. An overhualled 55 or 57 maybe. $600-800 tops for a regent in good playing condition. These horns are probaly only worth it if you can get one cheap that doesn't need too much, or, if you can do the work yourself.

How are the Alloras? They look like B&S horns. Or The Woodwind brand? These go for well under a grand. How do they stack up? You can get a lacquered Guardala for around $1600. A better investment than $1250 for a regent.