Need Advice on Rampone Tenor and Bari

[MarchingBear]

I'm interested in buying new Rampone tenor and bari saxes. I've heard that they are large instruments (larger bore) and some people complain about the key action.
Any feedback from people who have played these horns?
For these lower horns is the R1 a better choice than the R1 Jazz?
I generally prefer silver horns.
Thanx for any ideas!

[bkiser]

My experience is with the alto, so keep that in mind. When setup properly, my horn is no more difficult to play than a Selmer or Yamaha. If a noticable amount of additional air pressure is required, then there is something wrong.

The keywork does not feel as stiff as some other horns. Some of this feel is the result of the pads not being seated very well in the key cups according to Randy Jones at Tenor Madness. After he redid all the pads on my horn, it has a much crisper, more solid feel to the action...no more sponginess. My advice is to talk to Randy and tell him what you are looking for in the horn and he will give you his advice. He can also make some keywork modifications (minor) which make the horn much more playable and comfortable.

[MarchingBear]

Do these larger bore instruments require a lot more air? Are they uncomfortable and heavy? Especially the baritone!

[jonathanbyrnes]

I played the Baritone low Bb with gold plate yesterday.
It comes in a great case thats light and its hard to believe a baritone would fit in it.
The sound to me was not a larger bore type of sound. It was much thinner sounding then a buescher stencil and a yanagisawa that i compared it to. It felt comfortable to play but the keywork was a bit spongy. The baritone felt very free blowing to me.

I have tried the tenor in silver plate also. It also had spongy keywork but comfortably placed. This sax also i didnt find resistant, quite the opposite actually. I quite liked the tenor but the sound was a little too bright for my liking, similar to a BA in sound.
If you want a large bore heavy sound why not look at Keilwerths or vintage things, maybe a buffet they are a happy medium i think.

[MarchingBear]

Was that Rampone tenor an R1 or and R1 Jazz? It seems the R1 Jazz has copper in it and mellows out the sound a bit.

[jonathanbyrnes]

i believe jazz but couldnt be sure. Why have you decided you want a set of rampones, your list already looks impressive. All modern horns i notice though.

[MarchingBear]

Yes, all modern horns. I haven't ever fallen in love with an old horn, and I tend to like comfortable keywork. I have some of these horns in NYC and others in Venezuela, where I play a lot, so two of each is nice and keeps traveling light.
I presume that you prefer older horns?
:-)

[jonathanbyrnes]

Actually no.
my setup

Soprano
Selmer SeriesII

Alto
Selmer Series II

Tenor
Yamaha YTS62

Baritone
Yanagisawa B992

Its taken a long time but im finally happy with my horns.

[MarchingBear]

I've found that the Selmer SA80 Serie II can be great horns, but you have to find the good ones. I've played some very awful ones and then some great ones. They ALL benefit from an after market neck though. Gloger and Bosken are really superb craftsmen and their necks make a HUGE difference.
My Rampone curved soprano arrives in two days. I'll repost and report if I was lucky with the blind purchase.

[-88-]

Hi MarchingBear (great handle!). I have a Rampone & Cazzani R1-J that is silver plate (comes with NO lacquer...yea!) and gold plated keywork. It's sound is spot on for me, clear speaking and richly full. Supposedly, the R1-J with higher copper (red brass) content makes for a richer sound. I have not AB'd it against a tenor R1, but love the tone of this horn and will keep it forever. Also one can put quite a dark piece on it without it going muddy. I use both Lamberson 7SB and RPC short rollover .105 pieces on it. A match made in tenor heaven.

By the way, is your Silver Borgani a Jubilee model or what and how do you compare that sound with your SA80?

[MarchingBear]

Thanx for your comments regarding the R&C tenor. I have to play one of those! How is that soprano (Yanagisawa) you have? I've been thinking about getting a Yani curved bronze soprano.

Yes, my Borganis are Jubilee models. Bought them both at Roberto's in NYC after much testing of all the materials available. I even waited for the pearl silver and vintage to come into the shop before I bought the sterling silver tenor, just to be sure. After all that testing side to side I came to the inequivocal conclusion that the Sterling silver is superior in resonance and very even in tone. Both tenor and alto. I would not have paid that kind of money for any of the other Borganis that I tried. I just loved the silver. Speaking to some pros in the shop (Tim Price, etc...) I got the same kind of feedback. It is often said the silver horns are brighter, but I disagree. I think they are simply more resonant.
I took my Selmer SA80 tenor in too to compare and the Borgani was superior. But my silver SA80 is special. It has no engraving and was bought in 1988 in Switzerland. It is one of the best modern horns I have played, and then I got a Boesken neck for it and it REALLY came to life. I just felt that the Borgani had a bit more depth to the sound and had a stronger lower register. My Borgani tenor is currently in the hands of Randy Jones @ Tenor Madness being set up. I'll comment about the setup and how it has affected the horn when I get it back next week.

[-88-]

Mark, looking forward to your post Randy set-up comments. Two items:

1) The Yanagisawa is a nice horn. Good ergonomics, but a tad on the shrill side for me. I will be looking at a Rampone & Cazzani soprano at some point in the future, but I need to get my tenor backup settled first.

2) Am very curious on your Borgani Silver Jubilee as a contender against the P. Mauriat Sterling Tenor for second horn next to my Rampone & Cazzani. Have you ever A/B'd the Borgani, Mauriat, and Rampone? Now there would be an interesting comparison. Like you I'm nuts about silver. There's some clarity of sound there I like....or maybe I'm hallucinating, but if I am it's fun.

[MarchingBear]

I haven't played the Maturiat saxes, but I saw one and picked it up. My impression was: cheap. A couple of people Ive spoken to that have played them say the same. They do look good in photos though. I haven't tried any R&C tenors, but I can tell you the Borgani is a superior horn. But, every one is different and you should definitely find the ONE you fall in love with, not just buy on the internet. Again, of all the Borganis that I played, this is the only one I would have bought. All were good (and quite different from each other), but the ones I bought were very special.
Funny, you want a Borgani and I want a R&C.

[MarchingBear]

You say your Yanagisawa soprano is bright. That's strange. I have a friend who swears by her Yanagisawas as really dark and pretty sounding. She plays classical. Maybe it's your mouthpiece? Have you experimented with different pieces? I was thinking about the bronze curved yani.

[wyliecoyote]

I purchased a Rampone Baritone about two and half months ago from Saxforte. I loved the quality of sound right off, at first though, I had problems similar to others, re: voicing the low B/Bflat and G/G# notes. Had Jimmy at (Scimonetti's, Lancaster, CA) go over and correct some pad leaks. I tightened up the C# stop a bit myself later, adjusted a few springs. The instrument is now playing sustained B/Bflats and G's with no burbbles. It's taken some modification on how I play, embrochure etc., but is well worth the trip getting here. My normal life is now in shambles, however, as all I want to do is sit in my room and play play play. I may need to start treatment soon @ barisaxannonymous.

[saxforte]

Rampone & Cazzani use Pissoni Pro pads in their R1 and R1 Jazz saxophones. These pads are made in 3 different levels of hardness, based on the type of felt backing used.

Why 3 different levels of hardness?
Because everyone has a different opinion of how a saxophone should feel under the fingers. Witness the discussion in this thread to prove the point.

R&C select the middle level of hardness based on their own preferences. Keilwerth buy the identical pads but select the hardest level of pad. Play a Keilwerth back-to-back against a R&C and you will notice differences.

Hardness provides a more positive feel and also more pad noise. (thuck)
Pad softness provides a quieter action, and a softer feel (thup).
Both provide excellent playing saxophones, but with perceptible differences in feel and pad noise.

Mathew Aaron

[mcrouch]

I don't know if you have purchased a Rampone yet..?? If you have not it will be worth your time to talk with Randy Jones at Tenor Madness. If you have not purchased it yet I highly recommend you purchase the horn from Tenor Madness.....it will make your experience much more enjoyable. I will be happy to share my purchase experience with you if you are interested.

[David Blurton]

I compared the R1 Jazz Tenor (unlaquered, no high F#) this week with the Mauriat 66R, and I think the Mauriatt I my only reservation about the Mauriatt was I couldn't see myself pulling off classical music on it. It had a very forced vintage jazz sound. The R1 on the other hand had a naturally beautiful and warm tone, more similar to the Selmer series II/ Reference 36 matt.. I think the R1 would be a lot more versatile instrument, and it was more comfortable to play. Bottom end wasn't as responsive as the Mauriat IMO.

[wyliecoyote]

I compared the R1 Jazz Tenor (unlaquered, no high F#) this week with the Mauriat 66R, and I think the Mauriatt I my only reservation about the Mauriatt was I couldn't see myself pulling off classical music on it. It had a very forced vintage jazz sound. The R1 on the other hand had a naturally beautiful and warm tone, more similar to the Selmer series II/ Reference 36 matt.. I think the R1 would be a lot more versatile instrument, and it was more comfortable to play. Bottom end wasn't as responsive as the Mauriat IMO.

From my experience playing a Rampone R1Jazz bari:Rampone R1 Jazz instruments take some getting use to....larger bore instruments, as these are, require more air, diaphragm support, and a more relaxed flexible embrouchure to voice the low notes well then other make horns. Also, check that the bell keys are as open as possible - not the factory settings. On my bari I slightly bent the low A key mechanism to allow the A key to open, installed a stronger spring then the stock version to be sure this would remain open at any position, and also opened up the Bflat, B keys - This completely opened up the sound of the instrument - it's as if the instrument was being muffled at the stock key settings. This made a huge difference on the low end response of the instrument as well as the sound quality, and this also corrected the pitch as well on the B/Bflat. The Bflat at the stock key height settings was so flat in pitch the instrument was almost a double low A bari! Mathew at Saxforte said that Rampone recommends maximum opening of the bell keys on their instruments and that is certainly true. Fantastic horns, and Mathew has been very helpful.

[pandala]

I'm interested in buying new Rampone tenor and bari saxes. I've heard that they are large instruments (larger bore) and some people complain about the key action.
Any feedback from people who have played these horns?
For these lower horns is the R1 a better choice than the R1 Jazz?
I generally prefer silver horns.
Thanx for any ideas!

Hi,
I play Rampone saxes and know personally the owner of the R&C (Claudio Zolla).
Listen, the main difference between a R1 and a R1 Jazz is of the % of copper present in the brass. The R1 jazz has the 85& of copper in it, while the R1 has a lower value of copper.
The result is that a R1 jazz is a warmer instrument. It's true that they are larger than selmers, ecc ecc, BUT, it's only an initial impact.When I tried them I was no able to play a note... I was so frustrated... It's a slightly different way to approach to the instrument. If you have patience you will get in a few days a sound you cannot imagine...
I play a tenor and a curved soprano, all R1 jazz gold plated!
Hope I help you.
Frank.

[pandala]

I'm interested in buying new Rampone tenor and bari saxes. I've heard that they are large instruments (larger bore) and some people complain about the key action.
Any feedback from people who have played these horns?
For these lower horns is the R1 a better choice than the R1 Jazz?
I generally prefer silver horns.
Thanx for any ideas!

p.s.: The Bari are wonderful instruments. I've tried a couple two days ago, a silver one and a gold plated one....wow....nitroglycerine....
If you can give them a chance and try some of them. They are wanderful instruments.
Frank.

[wyliecoyote]

:!:p.s.: The Bari are wonderful instruments. I've tried a couple two days ago, a silver one and a gold plated one....wow....nitroglycerine....
If you can give them a chance and try some of them. They are wanderful instruments.
Frank.

I've been playing a Rampone bari R1Jazz in gold plate for about two years coming up, primarily in a large 18 piece jazz band. It's too bad they don't spend more time at the R&C factory setting up these horns properly, cuz they are an impressive horn when things are set right. Especially for stage band work..with the right mpc/reed, key height adjustments, no air leaks, etc., they produce that great fat rich sound that is needed to fill up the other two thirds :D of the sax section...think "Count Basie"....
It has been a journey, at times, frustrating...see my other post on this...however, this horn fits me now, and plays and sounds better than other bari's I've tried. I happen to like the longer (Conn) neck design of the R&C vs the "french style" bari's short neck (Selmer)..and (to me) the less constricted left hand on the R&C..just personal preference.
Along with the changes made by myself and my tech, posted earlier, I would watch out for this...

1) When playing 'A' above and below the staff...check to see if the keypad closes on the sounding 'A' note tonehole when activating the octave key back and forth...it shouldn't. The factory thickness of cork on the middle of the octave key mechanism (acting as a stop) needs to be taken off, and a thicker piece cut and installed...to the point where the key mechanism does not partially close the tone hole...this also decreases the opening significantly of the two g/g# venting pips...which in turn helps bring out those notes significantly better...A,G#&G...Mathew @saxforte recommended to me that one of the pip holes be covered...but the above fix has better results all around..otherwise the 'A' sounds restricted. If the cork is to thick, the horn will sound stuffy.

B