which Martin horn do you own ?

[pepper]

and what do you think of it ?

I have a Comm II, which i've only had for a month or so, it's my first 'pro' sax and i love it. it's got such a warm tone, especially in the bottom register, which you can just float around all day.

i've heard people say the intonation on these arent too hot, though thats not been a problem i've found.

all in all, and in my limited experience, a great horn with real depth and character.

[Bootman]

Magna Bari, The Martin tenor, Comm II alto currently.

[SteveZ]

1926 Handcraft soprano in silver plate, used to be Bob Wilber's horn. Beautiful, rich and complex sound. Haven't played that many sops, but it beats a vintage buescher and a vintage conn that i tried. But this thing is set up so well, and is tight as a drum. I've heard iffy things about intonation issues with these horns. This hasn't been my experience. I literally just started playing soprano last week (i'm normally a tenor player), and my tuner says everything is spot on.

I use an ARB 8* HR mouthpiece with Rico orange box 3 reeds.

[Thomas]

At one point I had a collection of Martins which included every model-it was impressive but certainly couldn't play them all at once so have sold off all but my Comm II tenor,goldplate, which is an indescribable horn. I also have a recently overhauled satin silverplate Handcraft alto, 1927 manufacture that's for sale if anyone is interested.
I've never had any intonation problems with any Martin I've had-I love 'em. Big sounding,sweet,lush powerful horns.

[Helen]

I have a satin silver Martin Handcraft tenor. I love it. It has a great sound. Ergonomically it's a disaster compared to newer horns, but none-the-less I get the richest tones out of it. Great R&B horn...Rich subtones too for jazz...

Intonation is fine. I have no problems with it. Actually, I find I have to correct less for it than I have to for my Mark VI.

Mine was pre front F key, so I had one added a year or so ago. Altissimo speaks easier on the Handcraft than on my Selmer.

[super20dan]

like tomas i had one of every model at one time or another.i sold all but my the martin alto (art pepper vintage) this is the martin to own (no pun intended)

[Honeyboy]

The first horn I ever bought($200.00) from a pawn shop was an old 20's Handcraft tenor. Nice smooth sound. I later sold it to my boss whose son used it throughout Jr. and Sr. High until it was stolen. I presently own a mid 50's The Martin Tenor which is my main gigging horn, a late 50's The Martin alto and a '29 Typewriter (all pearl keys) Silver Tenor with a beautiful tone, which sounds unbelievable with a Dukoff D7. The fingering isn't as bad as people think. My only complaint is the strang placing of the thumb hook. It seems to really strees out my thumb. Ithink Martins are among the best horns available.

[pepper]

is there any real general consensus about which Martins are the best ?
or is this question just asking for trouble...

[cmelodysax]

Best Martin ? - whichever suits you.....

I play a 'The Martin' tenor, and 'Martin Magna' alto - both of which never fail to amaze me , especially after a lay-off, or playing something else. I tend to use quite edgy metal Lawton & Berg Larsen mpcs with them, or rubber Larsen & Link mpcs for a more mellow sound.

Also have an Indiana & 'early 20's alto's, and a clutch of real & Martin stencil C-Melodies, so far not a dud amongst them. But if I had to choose, horns from the fifties seem to just have that little extra, maybe with best part of a decade either way.

Regards, Alan.

[BigDaddyJ]

The Martin Tenor, Dick Stabile Martin tenor

[MPL]

I've got a late (as in 1967 or so, if the serial number charts are accurate) Martin Committee baritone. Even with my smallish setup (refaced Meyer 5 and medium-soft Fibracells), I can still get a rich fat sound that projects well and has plenty of presence for big band/R & B work.

[Dave dix]

I have three martins ,1956 The martin tenor, 1930 martin master(typewriter) tenor and 1940 martin handcraft standard special alto. All are faultless on intonation and playability.Thank god they are still affordable at the moment, the best kept secret in the saxophone world!!!!
You cant beat a good Martin with a dukoff or a big berg on!!!!

[Stencilman]

I've had several Martins from early 1920's Handcrafts through 1960 "The Martin" alto and tenor. For alto, I stick to my 1929 Handcraft stencils and for soprano I have both a Bb and C that were both made in 1926 (stencils, of course). I have a Wurlitzer tenor (stencilled Indianna) that needs an overhaul and will probably replace my Selmer MKVI tenor.

[Dave dix]

Nice to see someone replacing a vi with a martin. I put my vii in the cupboard and use the martins all the time

[cmelodysax]

Careful guys, or Martin prices will start rising............
I must admit that any Martin stencils I have are pretty much as good as my 'badged' Martins, now there's a really undervalued resource - sorry Stencilman, but I guess you've got (and are very happy with) most of the ones you need, if this starts a 'run' on them.
Rgrds, Aan

[Stencilman]

Actually, all the Martins I've played have been junk. No serious sax player should consider purchasing one. If you already own one, give me a shout and I'll take the worthless beast off your hands.

In fact, I think I'll start a new business: Stencilman's Martin Sax Disposal Service.

[JPrince]

I have 2, a The Martin Tenor and a The Martin Bari. Both excellent horns, and by far the best I have played. Hey Stencil, I'll help you with your "disposal" services... I am looking for a good alto to play....err dispose! LOL!

[Keith Ridenhour]

Thats a hard question , which martin is better. I have owned 4 The Martins and liked the oldest one of the bunch (1948) I also really liked a Commitee II I owned a few years ago. Sold it for god knows what reason. It had such a full sound. The Marin seems to have more projection and faster action. K

[Stencilman]

Since we're singing all of these Martin praise songs, I feel compelled to note that Bueschers have many of the same great qualities as Martins. My True Tone soprano (stencil, of course) is just as awesome as my Martins. Also, I recently sold a mid-1930's Buescher alto that had better response throughout its range than my Martin altos. I just prefer the "quirkiness" of the Martin Handcraft's sound.

[cmelodysax]

Stencilman, I'd happy to start up a European subsidiary for you - how about "Stencilman's Martin Sax Disposal Service (UK)". I'd be also happy to take away and melt down any old Bueschers as well.......

You are spot-on about Bueschers tho', often my loyalty to Martin is severely tested. Especially where stencils have neither snap-ins or tapered tone-holes (and very similar lh pinkie tables) to make it obvious, it can be difficult sometimes to remember which one I'm playing. I have one C-Mel which I'd swear is a Martin/Buescher hybrid !

But Martin's won't ever achieve meteoric cult status (thank goodness), we've all been wittering on about how good they are for a long time - and it would have happened by now. We're just an amzingly contented 'niche market', and long may it stay so !

Rgrds, Alan.

[Ol Danl]

I have a Martin Imperial student-level alto from the sixties. Its always been pretty reliable and fairly decent sounding. A friend of mine has one of the tenors of this model, and pointed out that it didn't have an articulated g#. I've never had any trouble with that, though. Also, I had a The Martin tenor borrowed when I was in college. Wish I could afford to buy one of those.

[mark_m]

I have a The Martin Baritone. Of course, I love it, it plays so fast and smooth and sounds like I want it to (to the extent of my abilities). It really fits me like I personally was the physical model it was proportioned to.

I have a super-nice TrueTone tenor but it really doesn't feel like it fits me at all. How do the ergonomics of a The Martin tenor compare with the layout on a The Martin bari? [/i]

[Dave dix]

I have been thinking about buying a martin bari as all my other martins are great. I currently play a buescher true-tone bari which feels and sounds great but how do they compare to a martin?
I did borrow a conn crossbar for a while but it was clumbersome compared with the true-tone so is a martin bari better?

[JPrince]

Well, for my anyway, the keywork of the Martin Tenor feels just the same as its Bari counterpart. It feels the same spacing, and both are very ergonomic and comfortable.

[MMM]

I own 3 Martin Searchlight Altos and 3 Tenors: used a The Martin tenor for a while, but didn't get on with it.
No one has mentioned this model so far, but I really like the sound I get from the Searchlights: it's versatile (in a darkish sort of way)and very deep. I also found that reflectors make a big difference: I have them with plastic, metal and plain leather and yes you can hear the difference. So I can use the ones with metal for projection and the plain/plastic for practice at home. The action is not bad either, I toyed with the idea of improving the left little finger keys, but they are so light I find them quite comfortable anyway.
I would love to try a Comm I (with the Lion head) as I've heard good things about these...maybe one day I'll just buy one...(not bragging, but they're just so cheap!).
All the best,
M

[rrex54]

American Artist soprano stencil - date uncertain - gentle relac - rivet pads - SWEET!

Handcraft alto - 1928-29 - original silverplate - brown domed resos - rich & tenor-like

Indiana alto - 1960-61 - challenged original lac - old rivet pads - project (and likely temporary member of the stable), sounds better that it's rep!

Handcraft Committee tenor - 1935-36 w/ mismatched 1927-28 neck - old relac w/ recent cleaning, light top coat of lac (the effect is, depending on your point of view, a sort of diseased look or a hip, idiosyncratic funkiness!) - flat metal resos w/ a couple of Noyeks down low - absolutely INCREDIBLE player!

"WM" stencil tenor - 1940? - original silverplate - mix of rivet/non-rivet pads - rich and wonderful despite needing adjustment & a couple of pads

Handi, the alto, remains my main alto and, while I might like it to have the lighter action of the later horns, I wouldn't trade the sound for anything. The sulty voice of the H. Comm tenor (aka The Martian, aka TM) and light key action is to die for -- great focus and projection without losing the Martin richness and incredibly flexible. Large chamber "legit" mpcs yield a wonderful dark sound, but add some baffle (e.g., Brilhart) and you're rewarded with a brighter, edgier tear-the-house-down wailin'!

WM is interesting: Handcraft style octave mechanism, (larger) bell flare, and key work (but a bit lighter) -- combined with LH bell keys and a later (late H. Comm and H. Comm II) style neck. Comparison to TM is hard given the current setup differences, but WM seems to spread the wealth around more with that bigger bell -- truly great sound, just a bit less focused.

Martins are simply incredible sound machines.

[Claus]

I own a 1937 (ex-Bootman) Handcraft Alto. It is a very nice horn (apart from the smell :) )

[Bootman]

Sorry about the stench but this is an authentic old attic smell that came with the horn. Try some Odor eaters, foot odour removers which should get rid of the case smell, sunlight is another great way to remove the smell.

[Claus]

Richard,

don't worry: I love it even with the smell... :wink:

[jjgold]

I have a 1947 The Martin Tenor and a 1952 The Martin Satin Silver Tenor. May have a Magna Bari with Low A on the way. These are the best sounding vintage horns made!

[Dr G]

Hey JJ!

:borg:

[Dr G]

don't worry: I love it even with the smell... :wink:

So what's in the case, a Martin or a SML??? :roll:

[paullanfermeijer]

Hi,

Can't play that good but I love my The Martin (Committee) 200xxx).
Still looking for the best combination with:
1. Lawton metal 8... great,fat sound. Bit loud!
2. metal Master Otto Link '40's ... fine sound for the easy,lazy music
3. Brancher metal LJ 27..(refaced by Jon van Wie !): very easy blowing,let's my horn vibrate (sometimes)!

Paul

[OLDAIR]

I have a bare brass Lyon and Healy soprano Martin stencil. A big sound with very good intonation. Getting above high D is a challenge for me but I don't play it that much. Have a Rico Graftonite B5 on it that plays OK but isn't exactly subtle - more like in your face!

[Sigmund451]

I had a 26 silver martin also at one time. The tone was just beautiful but I do have to agree with the other writer....they are ergo nightmares. Especially if your not a very experienced player....major reaching for several keys that should (and on modern horns) are easy to reach. The intonation wasnt as good as on my 58 The Martin. But darn was that sucker dark and sweet. I do miss that. The Martin Model sure can shout it out tho. Im still looking for the perfect mpc combo.....arent we all?

[paulwl]

Two Typewriters (98k satin gold alto, 102k silver tenor). Both very promising performers; I just haven't yet spent a lot of hours with them. I find the Typewriter layout no problem, except for some awkwardness from low Eb to C and back.

[jjgold]

G..what you doin on The Martin Thread?

[Jack W.]

I've just joined the ranks of Martin owners myself! (hands out cigars) 8)

I picked up a Dick Stabile Martin stencil tenor from Junkdude, after reading some good reviews on this forum and on saxpics's webpage. It will need a full overhaul, including some dent work and other minor repairs, but it played surprisingly well on old crusty rivet pads. I'm getting the repairs taken care of first, and all the corrosion removed, and will have the horn repadded with Ferree's B52 pads once the school rush is over. (These are like the Selmer pads with domed plastic resonators, only slightly thinner, and were recommended to me by Bootman.) It appears to be all original, including what little is left of the lacquer, exactly as Junkdude described it.

I will let you all know how the horn turns out. I have a Runyon Custom #8 (red of course) which worked well with it, and just picked up a metal Rousseau Jazz at the WW&BW too.

By the way, two thumbs up for Junkdude, this is the second horn I've got from him and he is as straight a shooter as they come and easy to work with. :)

[BariMelt]

I play a 1965 Martin Magna bari with a low A. The best bari I've ever played. Doesn't have the action or ease of playing as good Mark VI, (I played one the other day, very sweet horn.) but the sound is worth ever extra effort it takes to play it.

[1saxman]

1962 'The Martin Tenor', 'Music Man' designation, #214xxx. Has Selmer-style brown nylon tone-boosters in it and is a screamer.
1955 'The Martin Baritone', still all original, #196xxx.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/16185/Martinten4.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/16185/baribell1a.JPG

[leonardA]

Is anyone familiar with the Martin Stencils sold under the Wurlitzer brand? What do you think of these. How does the tone compare to a true Martin?

[paulwl]

Two Typewriters (98k satin gold alto, 102k silver tenor). Both very promising performers; I just haven't yet spent a lot of hours with them.
Been playing the TW tenor a lot lately.Ye gods! What an elegant instrument it is (except for that low C-Eb...) It's so velvety-rich and easy-speaking, even at low volumes, that it almost out-Bueschers my Bueschers. Kudos to Tim Glesmann for his overhaul work here! The horn is very setup friendly, too, with anything from a 60s Dukoff D to the original "gherkin" chamber (probably the biggest made back then).

[Dave dix]

I have,also, been playing my typewriter tenor a lot lately,along side my t/t buescher tenor.Both have a wonderful rich tone.The t/t just wins in power and durability but the martin comes a close second and seems to be a talking point magnet,
Dave

[Sigmund451]

Still playing my The Martin Tenor and learning to enjoy new things about it every day. I never compared it to a selmer so I cant say which Id choose...the wallet just wont tollerate the Selmer....and my playing ability cant justify it. The Martin is just great though. I still think the Key layout, especially the spatual key layout is a little more cumbersome than a buescher 400 but otherwise I have so far found that it is capable of doing everything I am and Im sure much more.

Id love to hear some sound clips from good folks playing The Martin Tenor so I can hear what it can truely do. Im sure some are on the board but for some reason I can rarely get the links to work....even if I turn off my firewall...any suggestions or links that arent broken? Emailed MP3's welcome.

[Stencilman]

Is anyone familiar with the Martin Stencils sold under the Wurlitzer brand? What do you think of these. How does the tone compare to a true Martin?All of the old 1920's and early 30's HandCraft stencils that I've played are identical to the real thing except for a few keys that may slightly different: the front F is often not there, the high C# compensator isn't there (like early 1920's Martins), and the high D-F keycups are a different size. Otherwise, the same sound, same feel.

[Kenfen]

I've got an ex-Bootman horn. 1935 Martin, the Searchlights one. Looks ugly, plays sweet. Even a rough ride from Oz couldn't kill it. It roars. Bootman put a Gloger-handkraft silver neck on it, and the look of the neck and quality of craftmanship on it are amazing. The sound shakes walls.

Love it.

Kenfen

[Pinnman]

Gold plated handcraft alto from 1926. Lovely sax. Plays with a very warm sound but needs a great deal of diaphragmatic support.

Silver plated Typewriter alto from 1930. Excellent condition; I think I am the third owner. Much brighter sound; add a Phil Barone HR mpc and it screams.

[Stencilman]

BMSJ,
That's interesting that your two altos sound that much different. I've compared the bodies from a 1928 Handcraft and a Master (Typewriter) and concluded that the bodies were identical in design. The key mechanisms are different as well as a couple of post placements, but the bore size was the same. There might be a difference in the bore of the earlier Handcrafts - I've never been able to get my hands onto one for any length of time. I'd be interested to hear if swapping the necks makes any difference to the sound or response of either of your horns (although its sometimes not a good idea to try another neck on an old horn due to different wear patterns).

I'm amazed at how similar my 1949 Indiana stencil is to the 1928 Handcraft. The Handcraft seems slightly heavier, possibly since it is silver plated. The toneholes are the same, several of the keys are interchangeable, I bet that the bore size is the same (I'll be able to measure them later this week). The Indiana has old non-resonator pads on it so it isn't fair to do a sound comparison. The bare brass neck brightens up the sound of the HandCraft ever so slightly, but I prefer the sound with the silver neck. I find it strange that even though the Indiana was made 20 years later, it seems to be essentially the same horn as the Handcraft with left-sided bell keys, a different octave mechanism and minus the G# and Eb alternate keys.

[Pinnman]

Stencilman,

I thought I had better check these horns out! The Typewriter is 98XXX and the GP Handcraft 75XXX. Side by side they look, in the basics, very similar, as you would expect. However, the Typewriter does not have either a G# trill key or an auxiliary E flat.

Also the Handcraft weighs 5 lb. whereas the Typewriter weighs 4 lb. 12 oz. or thereabouts. I do not know wheer the weight loss is and I am convinced that the sax is absolutely in original condition.

The difference in weight could be the difference in tone quality.

Incidentally, the GP Handcraft will be going; great shame but I have a GP TT which I like even more. Curiously, the Barone mpc which make the Typewriter scream gives the TT a really rich sound. Even my long suffering sax tutor (poor chap has been trying to teach me how to play fro the last 13 years) was amazed at the sound from this set-up.

It will be interesting to get more thoughts on this.

NB I am making another post on another thread with some of these thoughts.

[FlyinBrian]

I play a 1954 "The Martin Tenor" serial 190,xxx. You can hear it in a live sound clip at www.rubyshooz.com.

The bad notes at the end are happening because I am two-hand trilling on the upper stack and missing the "e" when my right hand dives for the lower stack. Haven't perfected that one yet but it looks cool...

[Stencilman]

FlyinBrian wrote:
I play a 1954 "The Martin Tenor" serial 190,xxx. You can hear it in a live sound clip at www.rubyshooz.com.
Hey Brian, when are you going to do something about that tiny thin sound you have? :-) You sound awesome on that Martin! You guys sound like you have way to much fun. Thanks for sharing.

[paullanfermeijer]

Brian,

What mpc do you use on that The Martin?
Lawton? Guess!

Paul

[Harri Rautiainen]

My low Bb bari, serial number 2215xx , the vintage of 1922:
(It is really P22150 as was pointed out below - Harri)

http://saxontheweb.net/Gallery/MartinBari5.jpg
-Harri

[Pinnman]

Harri,

Will you clarify the serial number for your great looking horn, please.

[Dave dix]

Thata a nice looking sax,is it a conn stencil?
Dave

[Harri Rautiainen]

Harri,
Will you clarify the serial number for your great looking horn, please.As it is customary, I've masked part of the serial number (two last digits). There should be enough information for sax historians to date the horn.

Thata a nice looking sax, is it a conn stencil?
DaveYes, that's what I was told on the old Forum.

Thanks for your comments. More Martin pictures:
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/saxophone2/lst?.dir=/Harri%27s+Photos&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t

In last three I am playing the bari with my pal Alvi, who has a vintage Martin soprano.

-Harri

[FlyinBrian]

Brian,

What mpc do you use on that The Martin?
Lawton? Guess!

Paul

Paul,

That is a Vandoren mouthpiece with no other markings than the number "77."

[Pinnman]

Harri,

My low Bb bari, serial number 2215xx , the vintage of 1922

[quote]Harri,
Will you clarify the serial number for your great looking horn, please.

As it is customary, I've masked part of the serial number (two last digits). There should be enough information for sax historians to date the horn.

I was, and am, bemused by the date of 1922 for this six figure serial number as Buescher reached this number in 1926, Conn in 1928, King in 1940 and Martin in 1963. I realise that some Conn stencils had a P prefix and that stencils can be very odd, but this number looks way out for the date you give.

Ths is not to say that it is wrong, but I would still welcome your advice on how it is derived.

Many thanks.

[Harri Rautiainen]

Harri,
I was, and am, bemused by the date of 1922 for this six figure serial number as Buescher reached this number in 1926, Conn in 1928, King in 1940 and Martin in 1963. I realise that some Conn stencils had a P prefix and that stencils can be very odd, but this number looks way out for the date you give.

Ths is not to say that it is wrong, but I would still welcome your advice on how it is derived.

Many thanks.
Sorry, I made an mistake in masking exercise, tried to be too smart. :oops:
The serial number is really 5 digits: P 21510 (and L underneath).
bmsj,
what can you figure out of this?
thanks,

[Pinnman]

Harri,

Thanks for the clarification. The P prefix confirms in my mind Dave dix's thinking that it is indeed a Conn stencil.

However, I can only ask the quetsion, not answer it, when it comes to stencil numbers. I have always understood them be a minefield. Steve Goodson has a fairly full list of who made what, but the serial numbers themselves are a mystery. Any advice, please, anyone, and are there any tables of these about?

Whilst on the subject, my understanding is that most serial number lists come from one source, possibly in Germany. I would welcome advice on who this is - i.e. the person who did all the spade work on all these numbers and dates.

[Harri Rautiainen]

....However, I can only ask the quetsion, not answer it, when it comes to stencil numbers. I have always understood them be a minefield. Steve Goodson has a fairly full list of who made what, but the serial numbers themselves are a mystery. Any advice, please, anyone, and are there any tables of these about?....
According to one of these lists, my bari dates back to 1921!
Now, I am confused, too. :?
-Harri

[Keith Ridenhour]

I've got a 1948 The Martin Tenor. Wish it sounded like Bryan's. :wink: I don't have quite the fatness of his tone and a little too much edge but I can scream up to a G4 fairly regularly. . (Currently using a Ponzol M2 that Mojo refaced) Very nice job, Brian Way cool K

[Keith Ridenhour]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I've gigged with it for two years and no problems. Good alt, not bad intonation and twice the balls of a Selmer. (I know, I bought a 6 and then resold it a month later) Also, this action has been good on my tendonitus infested hands/elbows. Damn good horn for the 600 I paid and the 400 overhaul. K

[rayray]

My Dad just gave me his Magna Tenor, its the best sax I've ever played. I was looking into a Mark VI, but now I have no need, the Magna is better!!

[Harri Rautiainen]

rayray,

welcome to Martin Owners' Club!
-Harri

[cmelodysax]

Harri - the baritone in the picture is almost certainly a Conn (stencil).

The Low-C guard is in the shape of a 'mercedes' car badge, unless my eyes deceive me, unlike all the other guards. To my knowledge Conn was the only manufacturer to use this 'trademark' on it's brand horns and stencils.

Conn stencils didn't usually have all the other Conn features like rolled tone holes, just the 'mercedes' C guard. I have several Bueschers and Martins, and have never seen that design guard on their horns, only Conns.

Regards, Alan.

[TdM]

Hey,

I'm new here... nice forum :)

I play a Martin Comm II Tenor from 1941 with a metal OL 7 and a ebonite Ponzol 110, depends on my mood ;). I play both with Vandoren 3 reeds.

The Alto was my first Sax. I felt for the sound. But I hardly play it lately... I like the Tenor more.

For the Tenor, I'm Martin minded and I wanted to have the Comm II or a The Martin. I found the Comm II and I bought it. I love that Sax. Sound is great and warm.

rgrds.
T.

[joshuski]

The Martin Committe Baritone with a metal Runyon mc. Kicked butt. Sold it to one of my band mates 2 years ago. Looking for another Martin bari.

[djackson_manchester]

I've got a beat up 1961 Martin Medallist alto , which plays like a dream . Nobody ever mentions these "student" horns , but they're nice , if mine's anything to go by !

[Jack W.]

I got another! (hands out cigars)

141k Comm 2 alto, 90% original lacquer, ex-Bootman horn. This will be a replacement for my Cannonball Big Bell alto, which was a great horn but I suddenly tired of the sound. (I blame the fact that I used my Buescher Model 140 alto with recent Anderson silverplate exclusively for a month.)

So far, I'm having the best luck with an ESP 90 and RJS 2H, though I also just got a Selmer "Soloist style" scroll shank C*, which I will have opened to an F. Even in the C* facing, it works well.

What intrigues me the most about this horn (besides the fancy key guards) is the C#3 correcting mechanism, which I have never seen on any other vintage alto. (Not that I've seen a great many of them.) Currently one of my techs (Doug Kuehn, on whom there is more information elsewhere on this forum) is seeing if he can find a temporary replacement for the octave lever in his junk bin. If so, I'll have him remove the original octave lever (of course I'll save it unaltered!) and replace it with another one that won't actuate the C#3 mechanism, but will otherwise actuate the rest of the mechanism properly.

Speaking of experiments and Martins, my same tech replaced the body octave tube on my Dick Stabile tenor with one from a Buescher stencil that had a much larger hole. This cleared up the D2 and Eb2 considerably. Beforehand I couldn't even give these notes more air as they would then crack down to the lower octave! Someday I may have my tech drill the hole even a little bit larger, but it isn't urgent.

Keep blowing those Martins! :)

[Dave dix]

I have a martin handcraft standard alto(1940) with the same lever on to close the pad.This was put on to help intonation and it works.Mine is perfectly in tune,
If you remove it it may play sharp.Martin must of had good reason for doing this so be prepared if you have it removed!
Dave

[Jack W.]

I'm frankly a little worried about that too, or that it might throw off an adjustment elsewhere. Happily it would be fully reversible, but in the interest of not getting run over by a horde of angry Martin lovers (and probably rightly so), I'm beginning to reconsider. I think I'll just have my tech tweak the horn up and consider having the key made later if it still bothers me.

Back to the earlier discussion about Harri's bari (hey that rhymes), I agree that it is a Conn stencil, because I have a Pan American soprano made by Conn. The serial number is P31xxx. As far as I can tell, it is identical to an early 1920s New Wonder soprano, except for having straight tone holes and being engraved "Pan American". It has the same keywork otherwise, right down to the pearl rollers. If what I've heard elsewhere is true, that you add approximately 50000 to the serial number of a Conn stencil to get the date of manufacture (when the serial number has a P prefix), this would give my horn a build date of 1921, which is completely plausible based on its appearance.

[Dave dix]

Glad you may be having second thoughts,martin would have good reason for fitting it.They are wonderful horns and i wonder why your tech would consider doing this anyway?
Dave

[cmelodysax]

Jack W - I made the 'Conn' remark about Harri's bari - but I've just spotted a Gretsch C-Melody stencil on ebay with Martin tone-holes and a Conn guard. Listing even says 'Martin body, Conn action'

Now I am confused, although I always suspected Martin & Buescher co-operated on some stencils, I didn't think Conn did that sort of thing. Its at -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2366896569

Regards, Alan.

[Dave dix]

That is different.Never seen that before!
Only way of seeing who actually made it(i suspect Martin) is via the serial number and patern numbers to determine who made it
Dave

[Stencilman]

I've seen another Martin with the Conn-style low C guard. It was a Martin through and through otherwise.

[Jack W.]

I've heard that before a certain date, "Martin" baris were actually Conn stencils. In fact, Dave dix made the comment in the Conn area:

They [i.e. Conn] also made early Martin baritones.Any sax with the mercedes logo on the low C guard is a conn factory horn,stencil or not.

... in this thread:

http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=9883

As for the keywork idea, blame me for that one, not my tech -- he was reluctant and rightly so. I've changed my mind and will stay with the original keywork, and just get used to it. I repent! :oops: :)

[Dave dix]

Nice to hear Jack.I was a bit sceptical about the idea was your tech as i didnt think a tech would ever think about removing a lever.
You cant beat an old Martin or buescher horn. Enjoy it in all its glory
Dave

[Jack W.]

After living with it for some weeks, I have decided against the Comm 2 alto. It is a great horn but just one of those things, somehow not the sound for me, I can't really describe it. I've become so attached to my 1951 Buescher alto that I've gone and found another from the same year to be my backup.

I am surprised because my Dick Stabile tenor has actually made me enjoy playing tenor, a thing I thought would never happen. Wonderful smoky complex sound, great intonation. The larger body octave pip (mentioned above) completely solved the D2 problem and didn't change the intonation at all. Of course I saved the original octave pip just for the sake of completeness. :)

Back to the question about the C#3 correcting mechanism on the Comm 2 alto, however. I forgot to mention that I realized a terribly simple method a few weeks ago, to see what the C#3 would be like without the mechanism: just blow in the horn for C#2, and then lift the octave loop to get C#3 without the upper C key closing. WOW WOW WOW it was REALLY REALLY sharp! I'm embarrassed that I ever had thoughts of trying to remove it as it's obviously there for a reason! :oops: