New Player, Old Sax

[richardc7167]

I have been learning sax for about six months. I am an ex-terrible oboe player. I now play a 1922 Buescher stenciled Wurlitzer C Tenor.

Because it is a vintage saxophone, many tell me it would be too difficult to play. Some say I should occasionally play a Bb tenor.

My logic hints; if beginners in 1922 could learn to play this saxophone, I can also.

[hgrail]

Shouldn't be a problem as long as the horn is in decent playing condition.
A C melody is a handy instrument, and very practical for many informal settings.
All of my horns are vintage (now) and the only noticable differences are some of the optional keys that went out of style in the old days - and the abscense of some of the fancy additional keywork some of the newer horns have.

[Grumps]

A C-Melody is a relic. It has virtually no modern application and there is practically no music written specifically for it. Sure, it's got the same fingerings as other saxophones and you can learn how to play on it, but you'll be extremely limited in what you can do with it. Being vintage isn't a problem. Being a C-Melody is.

I'd find an alto to start with. Maybe a tenor.

[cmelodysax]

Grumps, you're absolutely right, when you say about the C-mel (quote) "...there is practically no music written specifically for it.....you'll be extremely limited in what you can do with it...."

Where on earth do you find music written for C instruments, apart from voice, keyboards, guitar, flute, violin, oboe, etc.........:? What a pain it must be to read music over a keyboard players shoulder and not have to sight-transpose up a tone for tenor (or down three semitones for alto) :(

I don't know what I'm missing - Sigh..... Good on you Richard !!

[Grumps]

Where on earth do you find music written for C instruments, apart from voice, keyboards, guitar, flute, violin, oboe, etc.........:?
Yes, but a C-Melody ain't an oboe, flute, guitar, keyboard, etc. There's no part written for it in concert band, orchestra, stage band or sax ensemble. I do know there is a cult of folks with a dedication to preserving this horn and all it stands for. That is an extreme minority of opinion. Sure, if you don't plan on joining a band, orchestra or ensemble, or don't plan on playing with anybody other than a pianist whose shoulder you're reading over, or don't mind reading flute/oboe music written in a range that does not take into account that you're playing a saxophone, go right ahead and join in on the fun.

[Dave dix]

As a solo player in a r/r.r/b blues band you can have great fun on a C mel or tenor or alto without written music
Dave

[Gandalfe]

As a solo player in a r/r.r/b blues band you can have great fun on a C mel or tenor or alto without written music
DaveWhen I go to a gig, I take my alto, tenor, or bari. When I just want to noodle around, looking over my wife's shoulder on piano, I use the C Melody or C Soprano. Most beginners only make real progress by playing in an ensemble. The feedback and opportunities to imitate make this an excellent learning opportunity. Using a sax with a lot of existing music makes that easy. Your mileage may vary... 8-)

[cmelodysax]

Grumps, I know that the majority of sax players (having myself played with, taught, and met a huge amount of them in my musical lifetime) don't play written/transposed parts in a "concert band, orchestra, stage band or sax ensemble". They mostly cover a variety numbers that suit their (or their bands) style from a range of sources, including originals, and frequently play as the only regular sax or wind instrument.

If you're hinting that a sax should only play music that's written specifically for it, then that wipes out a great deal of our saxophone jazz heritage. Can you imagine Billie Holiday complaining about Hawk playing Body and Soul "because it was written for a vocalist, with lyrics, not for a bent bit of brass in Bb...." (as also were so many jazz sax standards )

The 20's C-mel boom was aimed primarily at playing the ' hits of the day ' off the vocal line on piano music, a musical format which continued long (50-60 years)after the C-mel died. You seem to have a bit of a downer on (quote) "...the cult of folks with a dedication to preserving this horn and all it stands for..." We're not all stuck in the past !

Whilst I have a respect for the original muted C-Mel sound, I play jazz & funk on mine with a range of tenor mouhpieces, from Link to a very extrovert Lawton 8*BB, as a useful addition to alto/tenor and Bb soprano - just another musical tool with an undeserved reputation to live down. Have you ever played a C-mel or a C-Sop with a sensible (with the emphasis on 'sensible') mouthpiece ?

I think RichardC is well up to the task of mastering the C-mel if he's coped with the quirkiness of an oboe ( and double-reeds). I'd never advocate a C-Mel or C-Sop for a complete beginner.

[mpsax]

who plays a c-melody sax...? wats that...? no one...?
exactly....

[cmelodysax]

Geronimo, you ought to get out more, learn about things like spelling, punctuation, Caps........ ;)

[A Greene]

Very tense little thread going on here. C's are cool. Now F's are even COOLER. Too bad I don't have any. Owned a C soprano when I was in High School but the pitch was really unworkable. The great Dale Underwood gave is a try and still couldn't tame the beast.

By the way - what's the big deal with transposing anyways? I've heard of contra band musicians playing C Melodies - Why not? Every other intrument is concert or C pitched.

Saxophones shouldn't be limited to Band, Jazz or Orchestra (?) There's lots of music out there to play.

[Dave dix]

I play a C mel and a lot of other people, why? because i want to and the rest of the band like it too but if they didn't i would still play it!!!
Dave

[Grumps]

If you're hinting that a sax should only play music that's written specifically for it, then that wipes out a great deal of our saxophone jazz heritage.
That is not what I'm saying at all. What I am saying is that a C-Melody is the absolute worst choice for a beginner for numerous reasons; most of which you will have to admit.

Now this is the C-Melody portion of this site. Of course the folks here are gung ho over these instruments. And I'm not here to bring you guys down. Thing is, there is a newcomer who has arrived that came here for guidance.
Are you really giving it to him?

[cmelodysax]

Grumps - RichardC is known to me from an alternative C-Melody site, I'm sure it's the same chap - eh Richard ? How goes it ? Playing a bit of tenor may help, C-mel can be a bit unforgiving on intonation at times, slight lipping may be required for the odd note or three.

On the other forum we discussed his C-Melody, embouchures, suitable mouthpieces, and deviated via Theramins and the effect of saxophone music on his son's large lizard...... So yes, we really did all give him sound advice (no pun intended), from which he obviously extracted the useful stuff. So I'm not just a biased old C-Melodyist.......

[Captain Beeflat]

Grumps....As a blues harmonica player I initially took to the C Melody for the ease of playing in sharp keys. Like the vast majority of blues/rock/R&B saxophone players I do not slavishly play the notes that others have written down....I prefer to express myself.
The early days with a C Melody gave me great confidence playing in typical guitar led sharp keys; that, ipso facto, is surely a good thing...a superb learning curve.
Although I now mainly play Bb tenor in the same role, I certainly do not knock C Melodys & frequently play them in a blues band to provide a different voice.

[richardc7167]

Grumps gives good advice from the prospective of main stream musicians. For various reasons, the C tenor saxophone is no longer made. Any person serious about a career in music should probably not start on an instrument that hasn’t been made in 70 plus years.

I am not a promising musician. I am an old duffer that has been on too many construction sites throughout the world. I play music to entertain myself and the local children. Sometimes I jam with other amateur musicians. Sometimes I jam with the birds and wildlife.

I chose this saxophone because my oboe is a C instrument. The C tenor plays all of my old oboe music. I tried playing blues on the oboe but the C tenor really sings.

I will never be a great saxophone player. I may never be a good player but I am enjoying the music.

Alan: Thanks for your support.

[Grumps]

Love vintage instruments though...

[mpsax]

Geronimo, you ought to get out more, learn about things like spelling, punctuation, Caps........ ;)

I apologise for the errors in my writing... the first letter should have been a capital and I left a 'h' out of "what" ...sorry

By the way....in your above post, you have a capital "C" on "caps" ...this is not correct grammer.... :shock: ;)

[cmelodysax]

Geronimo - that posting was over a month ago ! Guess you've been getting out more....?

By the way, the capital 'C' in Caps was
a) because my Caps key on the PC has a Capital C, and
b) it was symbolic, as I was referring to 'C'aps

Don't worry about it, I don't........ Much more interesting playing a sax ;)

[Doc Frazier]

Geronimo.....I play a straight C melody (and curved once and a while) professionally. I have used my C soprano quite a bit also, but I also have and used everything from 'nino to bass. Don't judge too quickly!

Doc
www.JandJWoodwinds.com