Vito Serial Numbers/Country of Origin...

[kimslava]

I am trying to compile a list of Vito-branded saxes. You can take a look at what I have so far. I welcome additions, corrections, etc. Here's the URL:

http://www.doctorsax.biz/vito_ser_nos.htm

I have barely begun seperate lists for LeBlanc, Noblet and Beaugnier branded saxes.

Kim

[Jon West]

Kim, I have recently bought an Vito tenor and am trying to find out something about its history. The serial # is 000480. The only marking is the name Vito on the bell. I don't know what else to look for to distinguish its manufacture. Maybe you can help me identify when and where it was made.

thank you for your help. Jon.

[kimslava]

Hey Jon -

Did you try to fit that serial number (000480) into the s/n charts I have on the web? When I do so, the best fit is either the Japan/Yamaha Low Serial # or the Taiwanese chart.

The thing is that all the Japanese and Taiwanese Vitos I have come across actually have the country of origin stamped on them.

The Japanese Yamaha Vito altos are pretty much identical with the Yamaha YAS-23. I ASSUME the tenors are identical to the YTS-23. You could compare the bell brace and the keyguards and the shape of the octave keytouch, etc. and see if they look similar. I have some pictures of YAS-23 (http://www.doctorsax.biz/yas23_1003.htm) on my website. The only difference I've heard of is that the Vito lacquer is a darker gold color.

If those indicators don't match up, then the likelihood increases that it is Taiwanese. But not necessarily.

Seems like some of the Vitos that were assembled in Kenosha from parts fabricated in France were not marked with country of origin, being 'hybrids' of a sort.

Do you have pictures of your horn available?

Kim

[Jon West]

Dear Kim, thanks for the reply. When I initially looked at your listing and reference table your earliste low japanese number was 001. Since mine is 000, I didn't know if there was another series somewhere that has a different point of origin. Also, I have a tenor so i don't know if the alto picture will help identify. I currently don't have pictures but I'll take some within the next week so that you can get a look at the horn.

thanks for all your help. Best regards, Jon.

[dbrick]

Kim, your serial number page was really helpful. I just brought home a really beat Vito tenor that needs some serious lovin', and was trying to find out more about it. It was made in France, serial number 16774, but I had no clue about what year it might be manufactured. It actually looks really similar to a Beaugnier that I found on Saxpics, and very similar to this one, except the bell keys are on the left on mine:

http://www.simplysax.mynetcologne.de/Vito.htm

According to your chart this should be a '50s sax, if I read it correctly.

Now I just have find a source for parts, like a key guard, brace between the bell and the body, etc.

Thanks,
David

[stefank]

Kim - many thanks for doing this, I get the impression that many people have been "hanging out" for such a list. To add to the evidence: I have a tenor marked Vito, MADE IN FRANCE, s/n 22351 and with RH bell keys. It would seem to be a Beaugnier - the G# mechanism is the same as in the Beaugnier patent drawings to be found on Saxpics. It also shares a number of other features with some Beaugnier models, eg the design of the trouser guard.

Let me know if you would like some pictures.

Stefan

[stefank]

I might add that the features of my tenor are just about identical to those of the C melody linked by dbrick above, except that mine has no engraving.

Stefan

[retread]

Kim, it's been my impression that Yanagisawa-made Vitos follow the Yani numbering system, and can be dated from Yani SN charts. But I might be wrong. Do you have any info on this?

[saintsday]

What about the horns that say Vito and Kenosha on the bell? I thought that I read somewhere that parts were never manufactured in Kenosha and that was purely an assembly point. French parts too? Any info, Kim? And please keep at it. I have a few of these various beasts and they intrigue me.

[Tryptykon]

Kim - many thanks for doing this, I get the impression that many people have been "hanging out" for such a list. To add to the evidence: I have a tenor marked Vito, MADE IN FRANCE, s/n 22351 and with RH bell keys. It would seem to be a Beaugnier - the G# mechanism is the same as in the Beaugnier patent drawings to be found on Saxpics. It also shares a number of other features with some Beaugnier models, eg the design of the trouser guard.

Let me know if you would like some pictures.

Stefan

I have a VITO(Beaugnier)Tenor 16,000 with the bell keys on the LH side.
also, a VITO(Beaugnier) soprano 22,000 pics of that are on another thread
in this section.

Great horns.

[goodsax]

Having just acquired a Vito-Japan soprano, I appreciate the work you're doing to provide a serial number reference for these horns. Thank you. - Rob

[kimslava]

Hi...this is Kim...I started this thread. Seems like I only manage to log on to SOTW like once a month, if that. I just bought a Vito 'Special' alto...s/n 200xx...RH bellkeys. It does not have the switchable G# articulation that appears on some Beaugniers and Vitos. When I get done repadding it I will post pix on my website www.doctorsax.biz. The old pads, at least the larger ones, had huge flat metal resonators. E.G. one pad is approx 45 mm diameter and the resonator is about 35 mm. I am repadding with regular flat metal reso pads from Ferees since I have those in stock. I also decided, for some odd reason to stick the pads in with shellac instead of the amber melt I have been using.
- One fellow, 'Retread', asked if Yanagisawa Vitos follow the Yanagisawa s/n scheme. I don't know...I have never owned a Yani...anybody else know? If I get the time (not) I will search for Yani s/n list.
- The hardest part of all this is assigning dates to the s/n.
- I think I read somewhere that there are contemporary Vito-branded horns being made (or at least assembled) in the USA. Can this be true?
- Another fellow asked for information about Vito-branded horns that have "Kenosha" engraved on them. I don't think it explicitly says "Made in Kenosha" though. Who knows...maybe they are a mix of French-made and US-made components assembled in Kenosha?
-I'm going to try real hard to update my Vito s/n list with any new stuff I've got.
-Thanks to everyone for information and support.

[vitaminv]

Kim,
Don't know if you're still checking this or not, but, your table labled "Japan, Yamaha, Later Ser. No's" starts at 502xxx. I picked up an alto for my daughter last night that's stamped Japan. It appears to be a YAS-23 stencil and has the serial number 501906.

[Tryptykon]

Hi...this is Kim...I started this thread. Seems like I only manage to log on to SOTW like once a month, if that. I just bought a Vito 'Special' alto...s/n 200xx...RH bellkeys. It does not have the switchable G# articulation that appears on some Beaugniers and Vitos. When I get done repadding it I will post pix on my website

- Another fellow asked for information about Vito-branded horns that have "Kenosha" engraved on them. I don't think it explicitly says "Made in Kenosha" though. Who knows...maybe they are a mix of French-made and US-made components assembled in Kenosha?


From pictures I have looked at it appears that there is some parts mixing
mixing with the Kenosha stamped Vitos;eg the one-piece keyguards on the
LH bell key horns. Also the low Eb and C keys seem to be American-made
while the rest of the horns(altos and tenors) look to be the standard issue
Beaugniers, in terms of features.

I saw a Vito Special a few months ago that was as you describe.
The locking G mech was probably left off of that *model* for one reason or
another ?

My sop is 22,xxx and doesn't have it, but my tenor [16,xxx] does, so they may
have omitted that featured around 20,xxx .

[Chris J]

I have posted this elsewhere, but it fits in here too.

Kimslava asks about Yanasigawa serial numbers for Yani Vitos. I have a Alto Vito VSP with Yani logo on. The serial number bears no resemblance to normal Yani numbers.

So I faxed Yanagisawa in Tokyo with the serial number and within 12 hours I was told it was a Yanagisawa made instrument, made in April 1980, and was otherwise a Yanagisawa A-600 - and only 50 were ever made (why!!!!). What makes it different from a A500 or an A800 I do not know.

So if you have a Yani Vito with a serial number, ask Yanagisawa!....

Chris

[KenK]

This came up on ebay recently:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250037332817&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=250033279201&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget

Although listed as a soprano, I asked the seller, and was told that it measured around 18 in. in length, making this a sopranino. The body also says "Made in France" in one photo. It's hard to make out, but the SN appears to be something like 180XX. Very interesting.

[Sam]

I just got my kid a Beaugnier badged Vito "The Duke" bari, s/n 183xx. It has right hand bell keys, eliptical thumbrest, the J-shaped bell attachment and the non-switchable G#. It does not say "Made in France" but it's clearly Beaugnier -- I guess Pierre Le Stamper musta been en vacance that day.

It's a pretty nice horn -- "Surprisingly Mark VI-ish" was his take FWIW. Ergonomically my only complaint is that the low Bb key is kinda small. It was obviously a good horn in its day and much more than required to find out how much tenor-playing son wants to investigate the baritone.

[Sam]

Aha! Found the "Made in France" on the front of the bell. Pierre, all is forgiven!

[stefank]

Aha! Found the "Made in France" on the front of the bell. Pierre, all is forgiven!

That's where it is on my tenor (s/n 22351).

Stefan

[fdbandit]

Kim, do you have pics of any of these horns? I've gone through about 25 Vito's in the last 2 years. Currently I have an alto I'll probably never part with -I believe its a Duke, never seen one like this before. Rt. side bell key, left pinkie stack that runs inboard (like the Selmer) and the bell brace is longer than the Noblet's. The octave mechanism is kind of Selmer -ish . It has the absolute sweetest tone I have ever heard come out of an alto-like Paull Desmond. If you would like pics I can send some -let me know.
Chic

[fdbandit]

oh, sn: 19852, made in France.

[kimslava]

I am updating my Vito serial number reference ( http://www.doctorsax.biz/vito_ser_nos.htm ) on a couple of fronts:

- adding additional information
- reformatting
- adding links to pictures. If you see a serial number that is underlined, you should be able to click on it. Not a lot at first, but I will add more.

If I get the time I will change the ser. number reference tables to a different color from grey (html #aaaaaa)

If you've got pix of some cool Vitos I'd be happy to stick them up on my site.

I am still hoping to work on LeBlanc, Noblet and Beaugnier branded serial number reference tables.

Regards,

Kim

[kimslava]

Okay -

I made my first pass at serial number lists for Beaugnier products...
http://doctorsax.biz/beaugnier_ser_nos.htm
with seperate lists for Noblet-branded, Beaugnier-branded, LeBlanc-branded and finally 'Other' stencils.

And of course there is a bunch of Beaugnier products in the Vito serial number list:
http://www.doctorsax.biz/vito_ser_nos.htm

I've got a few links to pictures on the Vito list. Hope to increase that and also have picture links on the Beaugnier list as well.

-Kim

[goodsax]

Great work, Kim. I appreciate the time and effort you're putting into this project, for obvious reasons. If you need any info from me regarding my modest French Vito collection, please let me know.

- Rob

[saxpiece]

I've found the Vito (Yamaha) Alto 7131RK Japan stamped (YAS-21, YAS-23) serial numbers info that must have been released by Leblanc at some stage (Leblanc got them from Yamaha of course) on Leblanc clarinet serial sites.

My Vito 7131 has a 031XXX serial number which dates it to 1977 from the serial number chart below and it's a YAS-21 Vito with a fixed thumbrest so for my Vito 7131 the serial chart seems to be correct.
As far as I know the Yamaha YAS-21 changes to the YAS-23 around 1980 but for some reason the Vito YAS-21 seems to change to the Vito YAS-23 around 1989 with the 5xxxxx serial numbers. Maybe when Yamaha brought out the YAS-23 model in 1980 they did not want the Vitos based on YAS-23 models, as the Vitos might interfere with the initial Yamaha YAS-23 sales if both were the same, so Yamaha kept supplying YAS-21 parts to Vito up till 1989 and by that time it didn't concern Yamaha if the Vitos were based on the YAS-23 model or maybe around 1989 Yamaha couldn't make YAS-21 parts anymore due to factory tool changes.

http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/HowOld/Leblanc.html

http://www.clarinetperfection.com/snclarinet.htm


These Vito Alto serials seem to also apply to Yamaha YAS-21 Altos made up to 1980 but not to the Yamaha YAS-23 Altos. Each different Yamaha instrument model line has it's own sequential serial number coding.
The Vito YAS-23 serial numbers seem to start at 5XXXXX serial numbers in 1989 and the Yamaha YAS-23 starts in 1980.

The differences between the Vito 7131 (Yamaha) and 7133 (KHS/Jupiter) are that the 7131 has Japan stamped near the serial number and the 7133 doesn't have Japan stamped on it and usually has Taiwan stamped on it. The KHS/Jupiter Vitos seem to use the Jupiter serial system where 1 is added to the first digit of the serial for the manufacturing year.
The Yamaha Vito logo letters consist of single lines and the KHS/Jupiter Vito logo letters consist of 2 lines (outlined letters). The Yamaha Vito logo has a i letter dot that looks like a asterisk (*) and the KHS/Jupiter Vito logo has a i letter dot that looks like a flower with petals.

There seems to be a lot of retailers getting the Vito 7131 and 7133 mixed up.

Model 7131RK
1970 1 500
1971 501 2155
1972 2156 3529
1973 3530 4421
1974 4422 12000
1975 12001 25603
1976 25604 30827
1977 30828 33947
1978 33948 38844
1979 38845 42434
1980 42435 47975
1981 47976 52455
1982 52456 58306
1983 58307 62177
1984 62178 68524
1985 68525 72535
1986 72536 78579
1987 78580 85091
1988 85092 89758
1989 89759 501000 (Sudden Jump into 5XXXXX serials because the Vito YAS-21 changes to YAS-23. The Vito 5XXXXX serial number Altos are YAS-23 models. The YAS-21 has a removable bell, the YAS-23 has a soldered bell-bow connection.)
1990 501098 510332
1991 510333 511518
1992 511519 515800
1993 515801 519845
1994 519846 526925
1995 526926 533097
1996 533098 537807
1997 537808 552998
1998 552999 560613
1999 560614 575843
2000 575842 587455
2001 587456 624567
2002 624568 654084

[dolphyo]

hey Kim, my horn is in your list for Beaugnier Vito branded sax and it is a very good player. serial #19319 Vito "Duke" tenor sax in gold lacquer, i bought it on ebay from a dealer in the midwest dirt cheap 3 1/2 years ago. i like it's Selmer like tone and looks and it plays well along with my Selmer Super Action 80 series II.

[saxpiece]

I have just bought a Vito Alto Sax with Japan stamped on it and from the Vito Model 7131RK serial list above it's from 1977 and I would think that's about right.
It's a Yamaha YAS-21 model and it has a orange/gold finish with nickel keys.

[frasermanx]

I have Vito Tenor #1008 made in Japan ...exactly like YTS-21 with the long bell guard ...plays very well too but I am selling it. What year would it be ??

The sound is better than my YTS-23 I sold because the tone was too .. generic.

I also have a Vito alto 3460A that is amazing ..so I might keep it.. sounds better than my Kohlert from 60's

Frz in toronto

[kimslava]

Looking at the list provided by 'saxpiece' above, that'd make the #1008 Vito Tenor pretty early...at 1971.

Whaddya think?

[al9672]

Just spotted a vito tenor on ebay
serial number 2541A

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140198605688&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004


Just spotted another one serial 01377

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vito-Tenor-Sax-Needs-to-be-repaired_W0QQitemZ310014732438QQihZ021QQcategoryZ1 6234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one claims its a Vito Noblet serial 16264
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-VITO-NOBLET-PARIS-TENOR-SAX-STANDARD-MODEL-NR_W0QQitemZ230213165211QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16234QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[goodsax]

Just spotted a vito tenor on ebay
serial number 2541A

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=140198605688&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=004


Just spotted another one serial 01377

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vito-Tenor-Sax-Needs-to-be-repaired_W0QQitemZ310014732438QQihZ021QQcategoryZ1 6234QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one claims its a Vito Noblet serial 16264
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-VITO-NOBLET-PARIS-TENOR-SAX-STANDARD-MODEL-NR_W0QQitemZ230213165211QQihZ013QQcategoryZ16234QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemThe first one has engraving just like my Vito System (Rationale) alto, a Leblanc family sax, but the second one on your list is a YTS-23 stencil made by Yamaha in Japan. The third looks more like my Beaugnier except for the bell keys being on the left which I think is more of a Kenosha, WI feature.

[al9672]

Ended up getting a fix me upper alto, vito made in Taiwan
sn 04142 (i with a *)

[tonfisch]

there are also Vito altos made in Kenosha/USA wich look like older USA made Conn 16m´s. I had one Ser. Nr V 5xxx with a rubber ring in the neck reciever. Never saw that again. Horn played very well

[saxpiece]

I just received a old Vito Alto with JAPAN stamped on it. The original case looks like a Yamaha YAS21 case and has a LeBlanc logo on it and it also has Yamaha stamped on the case buckles so there is no doubt that Vito Altos stamped with JAPAN = Yamaha. I've got 2 Vito Japan Altos and a Yamaha YAS21 and they are all slightly different but still basically the same. The slight differences depend on the year they were made.

[BKRMON]

...the second one on your list is a YTS-23 stencil made by Yamaha in Japan.

I noticed that it seems like all Vitos stamped made in Japan are referred to as being YTS-23 stencils. So, why do they have YTS-21 guards? Are these not actually YTS-21 stencils?

[Pitbull2o08]

what about a newer vito with 539***

[saintsday]

Look at posts number 23 and 25.