Kangaroo Pads on your Buescher?

[Hornlip]

So I've amassed several Buescher horns (& I'm not finished!! :twisted: ). I'm thinking of getting at least one set up with white kangaroo pads.

One horn ('30's Aristocrat Tenor) is on its way back to me from an overhaul right now -- I had it set up with regular tan pads. But I've got two True-Tone altos that need new pads (one badly) & I was thinking of putting the Kang pads on one of 'em. Further, I've recently gotten (for a delicious steal) a mid-30's 'Crat alto, too.

Anybody out there have their Buescher set up with Kang pads? Do you like 'em?

[Gayle Fredenburgh]

Kangaroo skin is so soft and quiet. You won't hear any pad noise. I've never worked with a kangaroo pad yet because I haven't found one with a hard enough felt. One day I hope to find such a pad.
I have had three customers bring their horns to me shortly after they had been repadded with kangaroo pads. All three were complaining about poor response and a squishy feel. One look showed that the seats in the pads were very deep and they were leaking terribly. I was asked to remove the pads from 2 of the horns and repad using regular pads.

[MusicMedic]

In my Shop I am doing more Buescher saxophones than anything else. I have put RooPads in several instruments. The RooPads are very different than the Kangaroo pads that have been on the market previously. The RooPads are made with an exteremely firm felt backing and simply do not feel squishy. Further, the leather is stonger by weight and thickness than any other leather available.

I've never worked with a kangaroo pad yet because I haven't found one with a hard enough felt. One day I hope to find such a pad.
I think we have it Gayle! The RooPads are gaining a lot of attention and we have not even gone into production yet! They are firm, don't make too much noise, very flexible and last and last. I just sent you a few samples and will be very interested to know what you think of these pads.

Now, the RooPads that I'm talking about are Cardboard Backed pads. I have also been using and experamenting with Metal-Backed BuecherRoo's (Buescher Style Pads with a Metal Back). These pads have a simply amazing feel!

As for the deep seat: You will not find that in the RooPads.
8)

[Hornlip]

Verrrry interesting. . . .

So I've consistently heard that the Roo pads tend to produce a darker sound than regular pads. I know some techs, when putting on these pads, will insert a flat metal resonator under the regular Buescher snap-in resonator to brighten the tone a bit. I was hoping to hear from some Roo-equipped Buescher players on their experiences with 'em, how it affects tone, & maybe any differences from, say, a Roo-quipped TT horn and a similarly equipped Aristocrat; and maybe resonator-augmented pads vs. snap-in only pads.

Maybe I can find somebody locally who plays one set up this way!!

[Bootman]

I am at a loss to understand the need for Roo pads on a Buescher, the original style pads/ resonators have more than enough power, darkness, projection and volume for me in any performance situation. The original pads and snap in reso's give me the greatest versatility of tone colour. Try the mpc options before going the next step of resonators and pads.

[paulwl]

Bootman: I am at a loss to understand the need for Roo pads on a Buescher,

Rascher used to use them. Presumably most of the demand is from people seeking to follow his example. Of course, I may be wrong.

the original style pads/ resonators have more than enough power, darkness, projection and volume for me in any performance situation. The original pads and snap in reso's give me the greatest versatility of tone colour.

Probably projection, volume, or versatility are not what they're worried about. They may be more interested in a) quietness of action, b) durability, and c) darkness.

Try the mpc options before going the next step of resonators and pads.

They probably already have!

[MusicMedic]

I don't think that the idea is that RooPads are best on Bueschers, it's just they're better pads.

I have been working with them for some time now in my shop and am finding them have a great feel, and amazing versatility. The resonators are merely another way of adding versatility to the instrument. I have used the oversized resos on horns with regular Buescher Metal-backed pads also.

I just finished a Bari with Metal-backed 'BuescheRoos' and was very happy with it. I have done a few Buescher Bari's without the oversized reso and the results are also great. It just happened that the player and I were talking about tone and what he was hoping to get from his Bari.

The Kangaroo hide is so strong and durable that it's the obvious choice for covering the pad felt. The fact that it reduces pad noise and does not stick (ever really) only adds to the draw of the RooPads.

With that decision made, we talked more about tone and possibilities. This player was concerned that about edge and brightness; he didn't want it. But, he did feel that the instrument was a little tubby and maybe even TOO dark; After playing it I agreed! This is how we came to add the metal resonators. Now, as his tech, I suggested that we use metal back pads as I don't like the feel (and it might just affect the tone also) of the cardboard backed pads in a Buescher.

So, there is was Metal-Backed RooPads with slightly oversized resos seemed to be the answer. When I sent the horn out to him, I was sure that he would agree. I have asked him to send me an Email telling me what he feels the tone is like now compared to what he had. –Keep in mind that I did work on this horn before, and had it in good playing shape.

[soreliprick]

How do you find room for adding oversized..what are they, washers?...resonators on Buescher snaps?? In my only repad of a Buescher Big B alto there didn't seem to be any extra space for even a thin washer. :?:

[MusicMedic]

There's room you just need to be crafty :)
Actually it's a bit difficult I have been working on having snaps manufacturered. If I get them done, I may be able to change the size of the shank on the snap to accept a reso.

I use old metal backs and polish them. Flat Metal resonators will work also but only come a few sizes.

[Bootman]

Thanks for the info Curt. I was just asking to clarify matters. I am still perfectly happy with the old Buescher original metal backed pads I have in my tenor and alto, these are old stock items that are brand new, never been used pads.

[Kosma]

I'm confused (what else is new) about these.
I have a 331K bari in the shop and the tech has the top end finished. She's using non Buescher pads (punching out rivet pads) and said she's not reusing the old metal backs except for a few where needed. Well I didn't know enough about it to say- "hey you should use those".
So is this really bad? Obviously it's not considered "correct" but how big a deal is it? If these things go behind the pad, what's the difference between that and pad cup? I did ask her tho save the metal backs for me.
FWIW

[MusicMedic]

......original metal backed pads I have in my tenor and alto, these are old stock items that are brand new, never been used pads.
Very hip Bootman! Got enough to send me a few sets :lol: :?:
It seems like Buescher Changed the thickness of their pads around the time of the Aristocrat (after the New Aristocrat I think) do you know what year those pads are from?


Kosma,
If your horn was in bad shape going in and it gets a good overhaul it's likely that you're going to be happy when you get it. Certainly issues like Pad height and proper alignment are as. or more, important than Metal Backs.

It is some peoples opinion (mine included) that without the Metal Backs the feel of the horn will not be the same though. I have set horns up like this and am never happy with them. This may have to do with several things which include:
How tight the leather and felt get when the snap go on.
The weight of the key
The different feel of a flat metal back
The players perception
Some sort of vibrational transfer through the metal back (I'm digging here)

The worst case scenario would be if your tech snipped :shock: the stud from the pad cup and glued in pads. It hurts me just thinking about it.


Now, there are some reasons that your Tech may have wanted to put in cardboard backed pads: Some people feel that the current Metal-backed pads being sold as replacements are too thick and choose not use them.

Also, the metal backed pads are only available in one type of felt/leather. It's possible that your Tech has a felt or leather preference and wants to put this in your horn.

You might ask him/her....

[Bootman]

Curt,
I doubt I could get any of those pads out of this fellow who has them, he keeps them for his own repads. I have a complete set of alto pads here.
Drop me a line and I willget you the measurements.

[MusicMedic]

Bootman, I sent you an Email. Thanks! :D

[dingfelder]

how dark do you think roo pads with plastic resos would be compared to just plain roo pads ?

[Bootman]

No resonators really does detract from the projection of any horn, the Buescher would be no different. Plastic resonators would be better but metal resonators seem to have more projection than plastic.

[danodownunder]

Do Roo pads bounce back more quickly.

[MusicMedic]

If anyone is going to be at the Saxophone Congress in Minneapolis, I believe that I will have at least one Buescher there with RooPads. Stop by and give it a try!