Buying a new jazz mouthpiece...

[shneiider]

I'm not new to playing the sax, just buyin' mouthpieces. I've been usin' a Rosseau jazz mouthpiece (one of the cheep ones) but, i'm ready to "upgrade" (for alto). I've talked to Tim Ishi (the director of jazz studies at UT Arlington... great sax player) and he said not to go w/ a metal mouthpiece for alto because it gives to "bright" of a sound sometimes. I had already pretty much decided to buy a Beechler, but any input would be helpfull. Along with, a list of what each factor does to the tone (material, tip opening, bore size, ect.)

I know tone differs w/ each person, and that you should try out the mouthpiece before you buy it. But i have no idea how to do that. The only way for me to get a mouthpiece is to special order it. Then what? If i don't like it, spend another 100-200 bucks and buy another one. Yea,... i don't have the money for that. So unless i'm missin sumthin' (which is entirely possible) that's not gunna work.

Again, any info is greatly appriciated
Thanx
Shneiider

[Dave Dolson]

Shneider: Welcome to SOTW. You can order a few mouthpieces from WW&BW on a trial basis and then return some or all and pay only a small restocking fee. Other dealers have similar plans. Call WW&BW and get the details.

And, why do you think you need to upgrade the Rosseau piece? Maybe a simple reed change (up or down in strength, even brand-switching) can help you.

My experience with Beechlers have been . . . shall we say, interesting. When I play them, I find the alto Beechlers VERY strong and difficult to control. Others have reported similar results. That doesn't mean a Beechler won't work for you, though. Everyone is different.

I've had good results with Meyers (6S-Medium Chamber, 7M-Small Chamber), Selmers (Super Session and Soloist both F-facings), and a Morgan-Bilger. All were moderately priced. Your results may vary. DAVE

[Canadiain]

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!


ITS NOT THE MATERIAL, ITS THE DESIGN!!!!!

After a bit of trial and erroring I am now happy playing a beechler on alto, but its a metal one, so my opinion probably doesnt count. Is a selmer metal classic also "too bright"? Got one of them too.

[garyinla]

RPC in a .085" would be my recommendation.

[shneiider]

Thanx for the imput
I've been usin Vandoren Java reeds (4). I've tried La Voz, and didn't like 'em, but for the most part i've stayed w/ Vandoren.
The mouthpiece i have now (i don't know, maybe it's just operator error) is givin' me to dark of a sound. So, i think i'll just try out some other things till i find somethin' i really like. I think i wanna at least try a metal mouthpiece, 'cuz i've never played on one, and i can always get something else if i don't like it.
Again, thanx
-shneiider

[garyinla]

IF you want to try to sound like Dave Koz or Eric Marienthal (which is not easy to do if you arent experienced and good on sax) then get a Beechler metal.

If you want to play straight ahead jazz ie in a university setting, ensembles, small combos etc, you will not want to be on a Beechler metal mouthpiece.
One of the best mouthpeices in hard rubber for this sort of playing would be an RPC and a good facign size would be .085. Another good choice would be a JJ HR*7 (not listed for sale in an 8 yet.) a 7 is .083 i i believe.
Another good choice would be the SR TECH LEGEND .085 (which is polycarbonate) and a good Meyer copy. Another good choice might be a Vanduren JAVA (but i dont know how well they play out of the box.)

You seem intent on getting a metal beechler You say you want input but you are ignoring the advice of a saxprofessor at UT.

The reason you are on a 4 reed most likely is that the facing size on the mouthpiece you have is too closed for you. If you wre on a facing of approx. .085" then you would most likely go back down to a 2.5 or 3 reed.

You say in the first message yo DONT want to keep buying one mouthpiece after another, but then in the last message above you say you want to get the beechler and if you dont like it you can always get something else.

Your mind seems closed and set on a Beechler metal mouthpiece.

Personally i dont like them because they are stainless steel. This means to me (1) they dont have the resonating properties i would prefer of either a brass mouthpiece that is silverplated or silver then goldpalted, or a hard rubbermouthpiece, or a dukoff silverite mouthpiece.
Also (2) the facings of the Beechlers are probably not apt to be perfect out of the box and then (3) you have a situation of a mouthpiece difficult or more expensive to reface because it is stainlesss steel.

I think unless you really specifically want to sound like those guys on the radio doing the soft jazz/pop sound, you are making a mistake you will realize in about a year on the Beechler or after prodding from sax instructors if you are in a university setting.

IF you want a beechler brand, the better choice for you would likely be the hard rubber/plastic composite ones that are similar to vintage Beechler Ebolin and Tonalins. these probably wont play perfectly out of the box due to probably defective facings, but you can get them refaced and THEN you would have a good playing good mouthpiece for straight ahead jazz.

You might want to try to figure out WHY you want that Beechler metal mouthpiece. Who are you looking to soudn similar to and what mouthpiece are they on?

Dave Koz: Beechler metal
Eric Marienthal: Beechler metal
(and i could be wrong but these guys play on ones that have a CUSTOM facing that were worked on a by a guy at Beechler who i think is named Elmer if i recall from what i read correctly, and that the custom facign was made availabel to the public in the last few years, but i have never seen or played one in person.)
i dont think these top pro players you hear on the radio are playign the out of the box stock Beecher belite. The stock one has a moderate baffle, not a high bafffle. i suspect the baffle is higher onthe CUSTOM model.)

[shneiider]

ok, yes, your right.
the reason i thought i'd get a beechler in the first place is because that's what the guys on the radio are playin on. And, yes, i know i'm not going to sound exactly like them. I'm just lookin for a place to start. And, the reason i changed what i wuz sayin on my second post about buyin the belite and then if i don't like it, just gettin sumthin else is because i figurered out that it's possible to send it back within like 45 days if i don't like it. So, that's where that came from.
And, no, i'm not ignoring the professor at UTA. He was talking as if it were for a jazz band or combo setting, and that's not what i'm wanting it for. so, no, i'm not compleatly ignoring him, i'm just trying something else first so i'll know what it's like.
And, i am still open to input, in my last post i wuz just telling everyone what i had decided to do for now.

thanx
-shneiider

[uksaxman]

I had a Beechler i used for a while, but found it very hard on the chops. This was because the curve on the lay is very steep at the end. I then played a Dukoff M6, which I customised and opened up to more like an M7/8 and lowered tha baffle a little. This sounds great, pretty near perfect...but the metal is so soft it scares the hell out of me to gig it, in case I drop it in some dimly lit venue. I've even lost a dukoff due to catching it with my teeth, and wearing the tip away over a couple of years of playing! So I decided to have a play with the beechler again. I reduce the rails to about 50% of original width, opened up the rear of the window, and took tons out of the baffle and chamber. Its now like a cross between the M6 and a link, real fat but a fair bit of edge. Its almost bullet proof due to it being stainless. Downside was it took me months of filing to get it to its current dimensions as the stainless is very hard. The other crucial thing, is i re-faced it to a Dukoff type lay (longer) and it made it easy on the chops. It's not like I was weak in that dept as I often gig 3 days in a row, just that the curve makes it too extreme, aids altissimo, but at expense of lower end response. I would think it would be an idea to get someone to do the same to a stock Beechler, and you'll have the piece for life. I'd be lost without mine, as its a one-off. I guess you could get Ed Pillinger to do a copy and cast it in stainless loaded resin. I have asked him about this type of molding but I think if the rails get too narrow he cant cast a copy. I have a Tenor Beechler I started doing the same too, but its even more work than the alto one! I found an amazing Freddy gregory 8* so have shelved that project indefinitley. The Gregory pieces are awesome, have never played anything that comes close on Tenor, inc Guadala's etc etc. I would try a gregory if you have £300 to 500 available. Having said that I could probably make a similar piece by using a link as a blank, as this would be relatively easy given the softness of the brass. I have done this on my sop Link, which I have opened up a lot, and narrowed the rails..it really kicks now. Found it to be too bright as std.
UKsaxman

[king koeller]

Dave Koz:Beechler metal
Eric Marienthal: Beechler metal (and I could be wrong but these guys play on ones that have a CUSTOM facing that were worked on a by a guy at Beechler who I think is named Elmer if I recall from what I read correctly, and that the custom facing was made available to the public in the last few years, but I have never seen or played one in person.)

The guy named Elmer at the Beechler company who does custom facing's, is named Elmer Beechler.
He is the owner and maker of Beechler mouthpieces.

[AltoRuth]

, but any input would be helpfull. Along with, a list of what each factor does to the tone (material, tip opening, bore size, ect.)


Again, any info is greatly appriciated
Thanx
Shneiider

Lots of good replies here, but not much related to the above---information in which I too would be interested. Is there a good reference that you could recommend that speaks to this question? What are the effects of the material, tip opening, bore shape and size, etc. on the sound, ease of blowing, versatility projection, control of intonation, liklihood of squeaks and other unwanted odious sounds, et al. ? I do understand that in the end it's necessary to try out as many as possible, but with all of the products out there and all the different options even within a brand, it's really difficult for a novice to know where to begin shopping and to narrow down the choices. Thanks for whatever help you can offer.
Ruth

[decade]

The guy named Elmer at the Beechler company who does custom facing's, is named Elmer Beechler.
He is the owner and maker of Beechler mouthpieces.

lol, that would explain it!

[Alto Giant]

You talked to Tim Ishii? Could you do me a flavor and say him "hi" from "Toby"???He knows me.

I'd give you one advice: Go to a shop,ask to try several mpcs and buy that one you like best. When you like a metal mpc,buy it!When you like a Selmer C* best,BUY IT;)

Mouthpieces are products that react different from player to player,so I'd never advise someone a Meyer when he plays Alto, just because I think these mpcs are the best ones. And I'd never buy a mouthpiece just because I read or heard good things about it.

Cheerio

Toby

[pandaboy]

Jazz get a Meyer 6m. When you have one of those you would be heard. O yea with that get a rovner dark ligature

[shneiider]

well thanx again for the info...
i acctually have the beechler belite on alto... and, well.. i'm happy with it, i'm getting the tone i like with it.

except now i have another problem, i'm looking to buy a tenor mouthpiece, for about the same reasons, and again, i don't know where to start...

someone mentioned going to a store and trying things out until you find something you like. Well... as far as i know, i don't have that oppurtunity where i live. I've pretty much been to all of the major music stores within like an hour or two of where i live. So, that's not exactly a possibility. In order to try something out, i have to buy it, and then send it back if i don't like it.

any more suggestion???

thanx again.
-shneiider

[shneiider]

i have another question.
i have been doing more research on what factors change what in mouthpieces (and by the way, mouthpiece heaven is VERY helpful!)

and, i have another question, it might be a stupid question, but, never-the-less, a question.
I love the sound that i'm getting on my beechler belite on alto. Through talking with some more experienced sax players, he suggested, just get a beechler belite for tenor. is that a stupid idea or something i should consider