High G on tenor = trouble

[musiclover]

I don't now if its just me, but every time I try to play my high G on my tenor, it never comes out right. I can never reley on it for solo's. It can't be my sax, because it's brand new-Selmer. My embouchure seems fine because all the other notes have a really nice tone, until my high G comes into play. Any ideas on what could be wrong?... or is high G just a problem note??

[jazzbluescat]

Just because it's a brand spanking shiney new Selmer(or anything)doesn't mean it doesn't have a leak or two.
Also, you just might need to find some better fingering(s)to make your particular horn respond.
I use ok, left-hand B, rh side high F#; or ok, pearl over the B(top half of forked F)and rh high F#.

[Helen]

Musiclover, are you talking high G as in G with the octave key (G2), or are you talking about the first altissimo G (G3)?

Have you had this problem on other horns you've played?

To check if your embouchure is correct, a simple trick to try is to play A1, close your eyes, and have someone else operate the octave key. If A2 speaks clearly and without hesitation, your embouchure is OK. If it doesn't, then your embouchure could use some work.

If you're talking about G3, there are a number of alternative fingerings for it. If you check out the altissimo threads, there are some links, I think, to some on-line sources for fingerings.

And lastly, as jazzredcat points out, a new horn can have leaks. You could also have a repair tech. check it for you, or have your teacher, if you have one, give it a try, and see what they say.

[Dirty Dave]

For a G3, you've also got to learn how to voice it inside your mouth. Practice playing front F's and get the sound really big.

I would then try getting A3 to come out--it speaks alot easier and will help with your confidence. When you've got the hang of that, then try moving to G3.

[Razzy]

Well, if you're talking G2, that area is a node on the sax, hence problems; on many saxes G#2 and G2 will sometimes get a "rough", nasty buzz in the sound and it must be voiced in a certain way so that this doesn't occur. It'll probably sound like a lower harmonic of some sort.

[musiclover]

Musiclover, are you talking high G as in G with the octave key (G2), or are you talking about the first altissimo G (G3)?

Have you had this problem on other horns you've played?



I'm talking about G with the octave key. And yes, on other horns I've played the same thing has happened.

[musiclover]

Well, if you're talking G2, that area is a node on the sax, hence problems; on many saxes G#2 and G2 will sometimes get a "rough", nasty buzz in the sound and it must be voiced in a certain way so that this doesn't occur. It'll probably sound like a lower harmonic of some sort.


Razzy, this is exactly what's happening to my G2! In what way must it be "voiced" so you can get a nice tone out of the note???

[Helen]

If you haven't yet checked out the following thread, you might want to consider it. Same topic, just a different way of describing things.

http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5639&highlight=

[Razzy]

For me, just the more I played, the less this happened, and now it's almost completely gone. However I still sometimes get a little rough, lower octave sound sort of shadowed behind the G2 on alto. When this happens I suck through the mouthpiece as hard as I can to get moisture out and it goes away, or take the reed off then suck the water out of the mouthpiece. So make sure you don't also have a ton of moisture building up.

[Txsaxkat]

Ok try jumping off the front F or F# or slur from and see if you can sustain a good G3 tone for any length of time. After you can do that then move to nailing it on it's own.

[electricninja]

If any note would fail out of nowhere on my alto and baritone, it would be G2. If I don't give that note my full attention, it falls apart. Must be like someone said, that the octave mechanism design of the sax is generally to blame.

[UOPJohnny]

I have this same problem too!! It seems especially rough on tenor. I have two tenors (Guardala Earth Tone and Antigua Winds Selmer Mk VI copy) and an assortment of mouthpieces and I can assure you, it probably has nothin to do with your setup.

Voicing your horn is absolutely key. The best way I can describe "voicing your horn" is the way that you sing through your instrument. Anyone can put their lips on a mouthpiece and squawk out a note, but perfecting your voice and embouchure is true artistry.

There are a number of different things you need to be aware of:

1) If you rely on your upper lip at all for anything beyond making a (loose) air-tight seal around your mouthpiece, throw away your upper-lip habits! Anything you're doing with your upper-lip will adversely affect your lower-lip. Trust me, this can be a tough issue for a few... I used to rely on my upper lip to do vibrato (don't ask...), and it was tough to abandon. Of course, whether or not you use your upper lip is a subject in many debates, but here in the US it's pretty standard not to use it.

2) You want your embouchure to be "rounded". Make sure there's a tiny bit of tension at the corners of your bottom lip pulling your lip down towards your chin some (and you want your chin dropped a little bit, too). There's an idea of this calling the imaginary guidelines that round out your embouchure "spokes," but it's sort of a classical saxophone playing idea and I haven't talked to many players that really think about their embouchure in this way. Anyway, make sure your embouchure is rounded! (sorry, I can't explain this better, I'm still experimenting [successfully!] with this)

3) The majority of voicing occurs in your throat. If you sing loudly with the most rich vocal tone you can (imitating an operatic singer), you notice that your throat really opens up and your tongue and voice box move out of the way to minimize constriction of the airway. You want to do this when you play your saxophone... this often isn't touched on in classes or even private lessons. This is what will clear up your harsh G2. Experiment with this a lot! A technique that helped me get a good grasp on this was inducing a yawn, and while my airway was still opened up, I'd start playing and continue for awhile (I learned a lot about simultaneously playing and yawning in college). Also, it helps to think of singing a note as you play (thinking of it, not actually singing...)

4) Posture, of course. Make sure you're supporting tons. That G2 will have trouble even comin out if you're weakly pushin the air out.

5) If you have a real solid F, F#, G#, or A, I'd recommend starting on that note and sitting on it for at least 20-30 seconds and milking the tone for all it's worth. Close your eyes and really pay attention to the sound. When it's as fat and lush as you can make it, move up or down in half-steps towards the G. If you start more than 1 half-step above or below the G, sit on that note for awhile too and milk that as well. When you get to the G, do the exact same thing to milk that dry! Make SURE that nothing changes except for your fingering! Often times, you'll subconsiously change something in your breath support and/or embouchure because that G has failed you so many times that you're a little scared of it. Just that tiny subconcious fear REALLY trips me up about middle D sometimes... Anyway, when the G gets better in this long tone excersize, make little excersizes up to play around the G. Match the timbre of the G with the other notes (example: quarter note = 90, subdivide into eighth-notes: F#-A, G-B, A-C, B-G, A-F#, G). Go as slow as you need to to make sure that the tone of the G doesn't suffer.

I play a lot better than I teach, so I highly recommend that you don't try my tips without throughly researching everything and going over them with an over-qualified teacher. There'll be tons of people that agree and dissagree with these points, so I guess the only sure thing that will clear that G up is TIME :wink:

Hope this helps somehow! Sorry for the complete lack of brevity. It's also 3 am, and I'm running on 3 hours sleep, so if this doesn't make sense... let me know!