Small recorder for during gigs/rehearsals etc.

[TenorReinier]

What do you guys use for recording gigs and rehearsals?
Is it all minidisc with a little mike, or are some of you using mp3 also?
If so, are there any mp3-recorders with mike-input, or only line-in?
Are these shock-resistant? Are there any other systems?
Need to know, 'cuz my banged up walkman is really falling apart right now... :roll:

Thanks!
TenorReinier 8)

[RatBatBlues]

I record both rehearsals and gigs with a portable Sony minidisc and stereo condenser mic. I'm not sure of the model numbers, but the recorder has a digital input and analog line and mic inputs. The mic is 1-piece, battery powered, and has selectable 90 or 120 degree stereo field.

I edit the tracks right on the minidisc player, then dump the tracks back to a computer through the headphone output, and burn CDs of the tracks I want to keep. I've been doing this for the last 6 months, about 3x a week, for the 2 bands I'm in. I have also used it to record lessons, but I don't save those.

I dupe the CDs for other band members and I find they're very useful for practicing and critical listening when I'm driving back and forth.

[garyinla]

I record live using a Sony minidisc recorder. It is the 2nd highest from the top current model, i forfet the model number. Not all of them have mic inputs, the higher level ones do.

The new ones have 3 recording speeds. I usually use the 2nd speed so i get 168 minutes recording time out of a 74 minute MD, and the quality is good.

I use either a Visivox small stereo condensor mic that is sold by the visivox company new on ebay for about $50 all the time, or else a $230 Sony stereo full size mic.
The Sony has better fidelity but the recordings with the Visivox mic is quite good (if the music is good to start with.)

With this set up, as many people find out, you have to set the Sony MD recorder on LOW MIC sensitivity otherwise it distorts.

The best way i have found to get it to CD is to record the MD using an analogue line out to a Harmon Kardon dual CD audio CD recorder, I forget the model number but it costs about $269, current model.
I have to sit there and hit the track numbers manually during this duping.

Then if I wanted to upload to computer I have the CD and can stick it in the computer.

Or I can use the H/K CD dual recoder to dupe from CD to CD, to make copies for band mates.

This all takes me a lot of time, but I learn and improve each time i listen to a gig recording i think.
Also the other band members appreciate the CD's so they can improve too, and use for their own demo purposes. It creates good will for me, not only am i the sax player but i help them make band demos too for no added charge.

Of course if they use the demos to get more gigs, or just pass around as examples of their work, there i am as the sax player, so whether my playing is good or bad it will get passed around.

I have been doing this a few months with bands i have local gigs with, ie bar bands etc.

The slower 168 minute recording speed is of great use because I dont have to worry about the MD running out of space. I can just switch it every set or two to a new CD and I never run out of space.

The MD's cost about $1.50 each so the cost adds up, when you add in the cost of AUDIO CD-R discs too, and most importantly my time.

There are some digital recorders now that can record direct to .wav format that would save a lot of time and expense, to get into CD or .WAV format.

check out www.minidisc.org and follow the links for more info.

If I recorded direct to CD-R using a portable CD recorder that wouldnt be so good because i would be stuck with 74 minute recording times and also i couldnt edit out all the down time on the recordings, as i do now with the step from MD to CD.

You could record direct to CD-R and then upload all the stuff to computer to edit the recordings and cut out the downtime, and then go back down to CD-R discs, but the way i do it now, I dont have to use a computer.

I put the MD recorder in play mode, I hook the audio jack up to the H/K CD recorder, and I sit there and listen and hit track number increase button on the CD recorder, to move it to CD-R.
(This may be the last time I listen to the gig recording, they can be really boring to listen to, i spend the time on the gigs and then i spend the time listening to it once, and then i may never really want to hear it again, but i have it on CD for further use, ie I want to take the best samples of my work out for further promo use later.)

One thing i have noticed from my very last recording, an outside gig, is that the first two tunes before i was warmed up, my tuning was off. I am always better 2nd set. I guess that is true with everyone.

But if I give the cd's to fellow band members or others, the first thing they will hear is me at my worst, first set, first tune. This may motivate me to warm up before walking on a stage to perform in front of people-- not so much for the live audience members who may not know the difference, but i want the CD to sound good.

I really enjoy making these recordings and listening to them back. If I am going through a PA and I have no monitor or a low monitor for me on stage, and they are adding reverb on me through the PA, these recordings are the first time i hear how i sound from the audience perspective. I try to place the mic in a good location, these are not recorded from the soundboards.

(At some gigs there are no soundboards, it is just a PA for the vocals and sax, and the guitars are just amped and the drums are not miked.)

[Giganova]

mini disk would suit you fine, given that you plug-in a good microphone (and you can plug in ANY mic as long as it doens't need phantom power). There are also protable CD recorders on the market which aren't that expensive any more. How about getting a used DAT recorder? That'll rock! Best solution: laptop with a USB sound card and a gooood microphone. You can also mic up the entire band, and feed the stereo output of your mixer to any recorder (MD, CD or laptop). You have tons of options here and it's impossible to answer that in a few sentences.

[BobD]

RatBatBlues

"dump the tracks back to a computer through the headphone output"

Could you explain this further? Where do you plug into your computer and do you have special software to do this? Are special cables needed?

I checked out minidisc.org and from there it seemed difficult to dump from MD to computer.

Thanks

[Bill Mecca]

BobD,

It is just like recording from any other source into the PC. I would suggest, if available to use the Line out form the MD to the line in on the PC, again if available. Most pc sound cards have an amp on the mic input that can add noise, and that can be a concern because: this is not "dumping to the pc" as you would with data. You have to go from digital (the MD) to analog (the cables) to digital(the pc) so you will introduce some artifacts.

Some of the newer MD, I understand do make it a bit easier to dump from pc to md, but I'm not sure about the other way around.

FWIW I record our band with a EV or shure dynamic mic into the mic input on a Sony MSR37, they constantly marvel at how clean it sounds.

[DougR]

There is a small error, The headphone output is an OUTPUT.

Almost all Soundcards and laptops have a "Line-In"socket, Usually a 3.5mm stereo jack.

You will need a cable to connect the "Line-Out" or headphone socket of the recorder to the "Line-In" on the computer, these are simple cheap things from Tandy(USA) or from Maplin in the UK.

You will need a suitable sound recording program, I would advise the "Goldwave" program - dowload the shareware trial version and see if you like it.

[Bill Mecca]

There is a small error, The headphone output is an OUTPUT.

true, I don't see where anyone said otherwise. Its just not a line level output. Whereas with the headphone out put you can adjust volume, on the line out you cannot.


I'll second the suggestion of goldwave. It's what I first used way back on my 386.

http://www.goldwave.com the trial version has a toll, only so many functions then you have to save and exit, but can restart until you reach the toll again. Last time I looked it was $40 USD to register.

[BobD]

So if I get a MD player/recorder and the Goldwave software I can record myself on the MD recorder then use the head phone jack on the MD player as an output to the line-in on my computer to save the recording as a file that I can then burn to a CD?

[BobD]

Also, what about recording levels? Can you get distortion on a MD recorder? I used a nice Sony portable that had input levels once and that recorded great. No distortion of any consequence.

[RatBatBlues]

The Sony I use is the MZ-R700 and the mic is ECM-MS907. I send the headphone out into the line in of the sound card, which is a Creative SB Live. I use MusicMatch Jukebox to record the tracks into 320 KHz MP3, then a program called MP3Gain to bring the levels up to 92dB. I then dump this onto CD-R with various burner programs - they're all similar, and many are free.

Oh, yeah, the recording levels are automatic. This means that a loud show will be compressed when recording. You can set it to manual levels, but on this model it's a pain - you have to start recording, set on pause, then scroll through the menu to where you set it to manual mode, then adjust the levels to your best guess, as there's no level indicator. If you stop recording, it goes back to auto level mode - ugh!

[garyinla]

As discussed on www.minidisc.org, Sony and the other manufacturers to date have refused to permit a data upload feature from MD to computer, with live recorded material recorded onto MD.

So you have to record into computer using analog line in, from the line out or headphone out of your MD player.

On the new Sony MD portable recorders, the headphone jack/line out jack is one jack that serves either function, it is a switchable jack. I dont know what difference it makes how it is switched but it is switchable.

As discussed by others above, you can record analog to line in jacks of a computer soundcard. I tried this using a cheap standard soundcard. That works poorly. I got a lot of line noise.

So rather than buy a better sound card for my computer, I got the standalone audio component Harmon Kardon dual cd recorder/player. I record using analog line in from MD line out. Then I end up with a CD/R of my recording. I can dupe this on the H.K. machine or i can then put it into a cd/r drive of a computer to upload it (digitally upload) onto computer.

Going to the H/K audio component has a couple of advantages I believe: (1) when recording you can sit there and use the remote control to increase track numbers manually. The alternative of recording to computer means that you end up with a .wav file that you have to edit to insert track numbers later, and that is more of a pain than pushign the Track Increase button when recording, on the H/K audio receiver. (2) the H/K audio receiver has a good (as far as I know, it sounds good to me) analog to digital converter built inside it, so it is at least comparable in sound quality to any computer sound card analog to digital converter, I believe and perhaps better. (3) this way you dont have to use a computer or tie up your computer to dupe from MD to CD. You may not want or have a computer available for this purpose, at hand.


I am spending a considerable amount of my time duping from MD to CD manually as discussed above.

So I wish I had a digital portable recorder that recorded direct to WAV format, but they are very expensive.

But if i had one of those, i wouldnt have to spend money on MD's and also CD/R's. But on the other hand, my recordings now are stored on MD's and CD's. They would survive any hard disk crash. And it is very convenient to dupe a CD/R using a standalone CD copier, rather than need to use a computer.

[DougR]

Garyinla wrote: "As discussed by others above, you can record analog to line in jacks of a computer soundcard. I tried this using a cheap standard soundcard. That works poorly. I got a lot of line noise."

I have found this to depend in the "Line-out" levels from the MD, these are sometimes rather low. I found that running the MD into a "Line-in" on the mixer and the "Line-out" of the mixer into the "Line-in" on the computer and setting the gain and levels to suit fixed the problem.

Question: How do you get the "Quote" thingy to work?.

[Bill Mecca]

Question: How do you get the "Quote" thingy to work?.

in the upper right there is a quote button. It will quote the entire post, then you can edit, just make sure you don't delete the [/quote]tags. and use the preview function to make sure it came out the way you want before posting.

I see the confusion, on my MD I have a mic in, line in, line out and headphone jack, all seperate jacks. and fortunately getting manual recording levels is easy, just hold the pause and record button and it goes to manual, then use the up and down buttons to change levels. It does however revert when you stop recording, so you have to set it again. (and it is a bit of a pain because the durn buttons are so small, I'm NOT a small guy.)

RANT MODE ON:Sony has a way of taking what was a mechanical function and putting it into one of their infernal menus. I just took delivery of a DSR-250 DVcam and I have to go thru menus to set the iris, instead of a nice ring on the lens. ARGH! RANT MODE OFF

[ronet-tenor]

I record all gigs with the Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3 mp3 player/recorder. There is a ten hour time limit per file. I record each one hour set on a different file. I can playback from the recorder and/or upload to the PC as the recordings are made directly to mp3 or wav files. Nothing proprietary here. Standard file types.

Recording can be done via line out directly from the sound board, or you can get a mono microphone accessory from Creative labs, or you can get a preamp and use a stereo mic.

In addition to recording all my gigs on this unit, I have my entire CD collection on it. It has a 20GB capacity.

This unit is fantastic.