buescher ergonomics

[rek]

I have played 2 Buescher tenors: a 30's aristocrat and a 1950 Big B . The fingering layout felt identical -the R hand side keys were too high and the L palm keys were also too high, not close enough under the palm. I'm wondering if all Buescher ergonomics are the same or did they improve at some point? Are they better on the top hat & cane model?

[MusicMedic]

Hi Rek,

The True Tones have the lowest palm keys and side keys. The Keys are lower to the body and smaller hands fit better on these horns.

The Late True Tones are higher (to facilitate larger hands) than the the early ones. Very late True Tones also have a larger chromatic F# key

The Transitional (26x,xxx), or 'New Aristocrat' has higher palm keys and they are a little wider I believe. -This is my favorite palm key feel of all the Bueschers. The F# is bigger too and side E key is curved.

The Aristocrats and on are pretty similar if I remember correctly. They all have palm keys that come pretty far from the body.

I would say, if you want lower (closer to the body) palm keys, try a True Tone.

[rek]

Thanks for the info. :)
I can see I didn't explain myself well, though. What I mean is the R hand side keys are higher up the body of the horn so that Bb is about where C should be, C is close to where high E should be, and high E is up in no mans land forcing me to lift my fingeres off the keys to reach it. It's a similar situation with the palm keys. I can reach around them Ok but I feel like E is too far up the horn - with my small hands there is too much of a gap between it and the palm keys. I'm not saying I can't manage - I sold the Mark VI and played my Big B for the last 2 years because I like the sound and intonation so much better, but the selmer key placement sure felt more comfortable. Just wondering if all Bueschers are like this.

[JL]

I've noticed this also, especially what you say about the right hand side keys being higher up the side of the horn. However, it hasn't really presented much problem going back & forth btw the "Crat and a MK VI. It takes a few seconds to make the adjustment, then I don't notice it anymore. I have fairly large hands and long fingers, so maybe that makes a difference.

[ToreH]

Adding an Oleg high E stopper (silver) on the TT makes the side E much easier to hit.

[mark_m]

I have a late TT tenor (just got it) and it definitely stretches my hands more than my other horns. My The Martin bari fits my hands like a glove, but the pinkies and right side keys on the TT definitely give my hands a workout.

[Hornlip]

I did notice, when I first got my '39 Aristocrat, that the right hand side keys seemed a little higher than what I was used to on other tenors I had played. But it was a snap to get used to. No problems with the palm keys.

Btw, I'm assuming that "higher" means placed farther up the horn's body relative to the right hand, not farther out from the horn's body. . . .

[rek]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I guess I'm still wondering if anyone knows if the Top Hat & Cane have the same fingering layout as the earlier models. Thanks.

[Hurling Frootmig]

My post TH&C 400 alto had the same layout as my Aristocrat Model 141. I wish I had a TH&C tenor to compare to my soon to be overhauled early 50's Aristocrat tenor.

Actually I am probably better off with the money in my pockets!

[Safesax]

Rek,
I have a 1939 Aristocrat Tenor and a 1949 TH&C, and the TH&C is more ergonomic in my opinion. Little things - like the Bb side key is longer, so it's easier to catch on the fly. Overall, I'd say its a more comfortable horn to play.

Dale C

[rek]

My recently purchased 288xxx aristocrat just returned from an overhaul and I've had a chance to play and compare it to my Big B. The left palm keys feel fine and I see that the keys are bent to be closer together. This reminds me of the tech who tuned up my Big B when I purchased it and said he had to straighten some bent keys. I've now bent them back and they feel fine too.

I'll need to play it more to be certain, but my initial impressions are very favorable. It is definitely louder, freeblowing, a bit more focused with more brilliance . Overall a rich, complex tone. Intonation is good, but not as locked in, allowing for more flexability and expression.

[tophatsax]

Rek,

Who did your overhaul and how do you like the work?

tophatsax@hotmail.com

[rek]

Mark Aronson:
Aronson Instrument Service
310 5th Ave
PO Box 167
Clarence IA 52216-0167
(563) 452-3082

He studied with Rascher and specializes in older horns, particularly Bueschers and Conns. He also makes necks for Bueschers. I think he is more well known among classical players. He is easy to talk to and full of info on these horns.

I'm really happy with the work he did. In addition to the overhaul, he fixed the neck which was severely bent down and creased and very sloppy within the receiver. He put braces on both sides of the neck so it won't rebend and expanded the tenon so it fits perfectly. He reused the Buescher resonators and used standard pads.

I've been playing it all morning and it's wierd how much louder and thicker it is than my mint Big B. With the big bell on the Big B I would have thought it'd be the other way around. It played before I sent it to him, but now it PLAYS! :D

[Talldog]

I'm currently playing a '58 TH&C tenor. In the past, I had an aristocrat tenor. The TH&C is more ergonomic because the body tube is turned to the right, facilitating the RH fingerings. This causes the bell to hang to the left at more of an angle than on the 'Crats. Playing the aristocrat tenor with small hands, I couldn't use the RH thumb rest and had to press my thumb on the body tube like flute. This isn't a problem on the TH&C. Peaceout T-dog.

[tophatsax]

Rek,

Thanks for the info. I've got a Big B (324,xxx) that needs an overhaul and am scoping out really good techs that specialize in vintage (preferably Buescher) horns. Curt Alterac at Music Medic is another. He's been real helpful on the phone.

I'll give Mark a call too.

Thanks again.

Phil

[Hornlip]

Ditto what Rek said about Mark Aronson. Mr. Aronson worked on my 290xxx tenor Aristocrat & I couldn't be happier. Learned alot while talking to him, as well.

I wanted somebody who knew Bueschers to work on my horn & after trading emails with MusicMedic & Aronson, I couldn't decide, so I actually flipped a coin & Aronson won!! 8)