Why did anyone try and instill this lie?

[TetsuoK]

I picked up sax at the age of 9, almost 16 years ago.

I liked all musical instruments, and because a friend rented a saxophone, i realized that I could also learn how to play a musical instrument other than the piano, guitar or hammered dulcimer my father owned.

Lucky me... only I didn't really know it at the time.

Fast forward a couple years to Jr. High. First time I played with a band, the intermediate band.

I remember our instructor talked about how woodwinds shouldn't play brass because it wasn't a wise thing to pickup... different embouchure, different style of play, different mechanics, etc.

I never picked up brass until I was about 17, in highschool marching band, and we were playing 76 trombones. We didnt' HAVE 76 trombones, but we wanted to make sure our parade band had a front line completely trombones.

I elected to pick one up and learned to play. I never got very good because I couldn't quite figure out the embouchure... I understood it, but I never quite got it right. After that one song, and a couple basketball games of playing it, i never picked it up again.

Fast forward to yesterday. I play in a cumbias band with alot of variation. We had a former member who played trombone who no longer does, and after about a year of absence has dropped off our trombone.

I decided to pick it up for a couple songs that doesn't really need the tenor sax so much.

I couldn't get the embouchure quite right. I was making the right notes, but it reminded me of the first time I played basoon... A soggy duck.

For some reason, I decided to reeeeally press that sucker against my mouth, and push my lips back against the pressure of the horn I was bringing to it.

All of a sudden, my tone went crystal. I was hitting all the right partials and having a great time.

30 minutes of that was enough for me. I have been really pissed off with not being able to hit altissimo as bird, lately. I have really wanted to get that good. Bird did what no one thought possible at the time.

I was going to do what I had so many instructors tell me wasn't possible over time.

I played my sax immediately after with the same attitude as the trombone. I wrestled with it, i pressed myself up against it and it pushed me back. I fought it, and I kissed it, and I loved it, and I hated it.

I played the absolute best I have ever. I hit altissimo throughout every key on the horn, hitting notes like bent partials, and growls on notes I could never match harmonics before.

For the remaining two hours, that horn and I were the bitterest of enemies and the best of friends, testing eachother and surpassing everything we had ever done before. My tone was unlike anything i'd ever heard it before.

My entire body was tired by the time practice was over. My sax and I looked at eachother with puppy dog eyes, realizing we couldn't play together anymore.. i had to close the lid on it, and I could hear it whimper as I took a deep breathe and let out a long sigh.

Here I am at work, and want nothing more to do than beat the little devil from here to china and back and have it give me the same *** whooping...

God bless music, and thank the devil for tempting him to birth adolph sax.

[Sasquatch]

I love hearing about folks doing things that popular "wisdom" says can't be done. Keep up the good work.

Have you ever considered working with cold fusion physics?

[Tom Goodrick]

While it is true that playing the different horns requires dexterity and strength in certain different muscles, it is like a golfer lifting weights. The healthier your muscles, the better they do anything. I regularly play all four of my horns - two brass and two reed - interchangeably. When I play any horn, I get the same feeling as when playing the others. My body supplies the same level of air pressure to support the tone. My chops turn the air pressure into music with some help from my fingers and arms.

But it is also important to find the sweet spot in each case where you get a lot of music for little effort. The actual physical pressure between a mouthpiece and the lips should not be too great. I heard about a brass teacher who advocated hanging a trobmone or trumpet from the ceiling on a rope and having students blow them without holding them. That may be a little extreme but it is something to think about. When you get the sound you like, back off on the mouthpiece pressure. You should also be able to get a good buzz without the horn using two fingers held lightly against your lips.

Just don't have anyone standing in front of you when you try that one!

In the past seven months, I have been intensely working on learning the soprano sax. The improvement in high notes on the trumpet and trombone has been amazing!

Play whatever turns you on!

[Randall]

I completely agree with Tom, having played both sax and brass instruments for more than 30 years.

Granted, switching in the middle of songs (say, from sax to trombone) can be a little hard because of lack of warm up, I have always thought that the "can't do both" mantra was just a bunch of hooey.

When I was in high school concert band I had a sax and tuba by my chair at all times (very small band, obviously).;)

[jaysne]

I heard the same thing when I was young--that a woodwind player playing brass would suffer from destroyed sensitivity in the lips.

What a loaduh bunk. Your band instructor probably read the same article I did. Of course, he had no idea what he was talking about. Too bad he got a job as a teacher.

After learning to play all the woodwinds rather well, I picked up trumpet about five years ago, and trombone about two years ago. If I had enough time to really practice it, I'd be playing French horn, too. I love all these horns!

And I notice a peculiar thing--playing trumpet tends to make my flute embochure MORE sensitive!

[Al Stevens]

I play sax, trumpet, trombone, piano, and string bass. Nobody ever told me I couldn't do that.

But about teachers and their advice: A piano teacher once declined to give me lessons after examining my hands. He said I was a pianist "from the wrists up" because my hands are small and my thumbs don't bend at the second joint. He said I'd never be able to play piano properly. I don't know about properly, but I've been playing piano professionally for almost fifty years.

I wonder what he is doing...

[gary]

Al, is that you playing piano on the vocal clips on your web site?
If it is I really enjoyed listening to them. Nice Frankie Carl-isms; don't hear much of that anymore. Love the humour on your site, as well.

[Al Stevens]

Al, is that you playing piano on the vocal clips on your web site?
If it is I really enjoyed listening to them. Nice Frankie Carl-isms; don't hear much of that anymore. Love the humour on your site, as well.

Yes, that's me. I recorded those clips three or four years ago when I had a piano bar single gig. Thanks for the nice comments.

[jaysne]

But about teachers and their advice: A piano teacher once declined to give me lessons after examining my hands. He said I was a pianist "from the wrists up" because my hands are small and my thumbs don't bend at the second joint. He said I'd never be able to play piano properly. I don't know about properly, but I've been playing piano professionally for almost fifty years.

I wonder what he is doing...

Any time a teacher tells you "You won't be able to do this because..." it's time to get a new teacher. And report him/her to the Department of Ignorance.

[Tom Goodrick]

I should add that it is indeed possible to switch horns during a song on the stage. I practice it all the time (which helps). I did it in my last several gigs where I was lead horn in front of a small combo. But I can choose my first few notes carefully to serve as a sort of warm up. Now when I practice, my synth is loaded with both rhythms and a few recorded orchestrations. These force me to play all four horns during the course of one song. It works.

I don't spend much time these days practicing my trumpet and trombone because I work harder on the tenor and the soprano sax. But when I pick up the trumpet or trombone, it is like I have been practicing them all along. Of course I am not sure about the endurance. I do need to work on that more.

[makemyday]

I have been really pissed off with not being able to hit altissimo as bird, lately. I have really wanted to get that good. Bird did what no one thought possible at the time.

Did you actually LISTEN to charlie parker or are you parafrasing a book you read about him? Many people who don't understand **** about parker, or music in general, couldn't figure out why this guy was so important so decided it had to do with some acrobatics.

The least thing charlie parker is known for is his use of the altissimo...

[JimMetcalf]

Started with clarinet in 1953-sax in 1955--trumpet in 56--still playing brass and sax! It can be done! Bass Clarinet will improve your trumpet chops! Bari will strengthen your sop and alto sound! Air control and open throat control are required on brass and reeds to make that "pleasing, full tone" we all like. Look at "Voicing" by Donald Sinta & Denise Dabney for sax air control-and than at the John Lynch Altissimo book for trumpet! Air control is air control!

[TetsuoK]

Did you actually LISTEN to charlie parker or are you parafrasing a book you read about him? Many people who don't understand **** about parker, or music in general, couldn't figure out why this guy was so important so decided it had to do with some acrobatics.

The least thing charlie parker is known for is his use of the altissimo...


Thats a pretty thick call out right there.

I first learned about charlie parker when I saw a movie with Forest Whittaker (sp?) called "Bird." I think it was directed by clint eastwood.

Now, my impression of what he was made infamous for was what people initially thoguht he was crazy, or stupid for. -- Following keychanges with no regard for them, yet, suddently turning them back INTO the same keychanges. Flying in and out of ups and downs, and wondering where the hell the lines are, and realizing they're all parallel and perpindicular, and he's been sewing them together all along.

THat was my 11 year old impression of him i got from the movie, "Bird."

Now, I'll have to go over the titles of some of the songs my father has on vinyl (most of my collection is the stuff my dad copied direct to CD without any labelling for me), and every once in a while, in between the in and out of that up and down, there's a bird call in there that growls a little bit similar to the "caw caw caws" on john coltrane's meditations, before flying down around some other intervals.

But hey, thats just my impression of him.

[saxyguy92]

Did you actually LISTEN to charlie parker or are you parafrasing a book you read about him? Many people who don't understand **** about parker, or music in general, couldn't figure out why this guy was so important so decided it had to do with some acrobatics.

The least thing charlie parker is known for is his use of the altissimo...

dude i definently i agree with you, never have i heard altissimo in Parker's playing:?

[dblrbar]

Anyone ever noticed the guy on the (stage right) horn line on the Letterman show? He mostly plays trombone but on the seques some nights they'll do Stars and Stripes and this guy will play the trio piccolo part....perfectly!!! How do they do that? By the way, I never heard Bird play that altissimo stuff either.

[Randall]

dbl,
I got one that will top that!
When I was an undergrad, there was a girl in the tuba section of my marching band who played the piccolo trio part on Sousaphone!

That girl was Velvet Brown!

[dblrbar]

dbl,
I got one that will top that!
When I was an undergrad, there was a girl in the tuba section of my marching band who played the piccolo trio part on Sousaphone!

That girl was Velvet Brown!
Don't know Velvet....the tuba players in our local community concert band did the same thing last year for our annual July 4th concert...it sounded like ... four tuba players playing the trio pic part of S&S...My point was, I think a really good (and dedicated) musician can do some amazing things...like switching from trombone to pic and sound great. Check out the Letterman show...that quy does this quite often. Thanx for the response.

[Randall]

dbl,
do a search on Velvet....
she is....no slouch.:D

[trombone+sax=life]

geez, that's screwed up. my band director MADE me switch to trombone from sax; he definitely didn't tell me that i couldn't! you can't play both brass and woodwinds, what a joke!

[hakukani]

This is the second time today I've read where Bird didn't play altissimo.
Not so.
He didn't use it much on recordings, but I've heard him go up to at least A3 on some radio aircheck recordings.

[And7barton]

My old trumpet teacher told me you couldn't mix reed and brass - Me being a contrary kind of sod, promptly went out and bought a C melody sax. Over the years I also played trombone and BBb tuba, all the time continuing with tenor sax (and other saxes coming and going, but there was ALWAYS a tenor), but found the most suitable brass for my heavily punished embouchure was flugelhorn, with no high acrobatics involved. Playing trumpet for too long or too often on a gig knackered my lips.

[RootyTootoot]

This is the second time today I've read where Bird didn't play altissimo.
Not so.
He didn't use it much on recordings, but I've heard him go up to at least A3 on some radio aircheck recordings.

Here we go again!! There are a couple of F#s in the Omnibook and these airchecks apparently. But those who are saying that Bird isn't much known for his altissimo playing are surely right. It's not an outstanding feature of his style, IMHO.

[AuntSaxophone]

I don't feel that it's so much that a person can't... It's that some people might not be able to adjust. I know I could never adjust to playing trumpet or any of the other brass... Besides, it doesn't help that I was always picked on by the brass and the percussion sections, and the clarinets and flutes... Basically the whole band... Oh how I hated them so... Middle Schoolers... I'll stop seething now...