We've often heard...

[Wailin']

the expression, so and so is an accomplished musician. Many times to our dismay accomplished means "in that performers own right or way". Beginner, intermediate and advanced may all carry a multitude of connotaitons for different players. What should a beginner sax player be able to do before considered an intermediate player and in the same token, what must an intermediate sax player be able to do before considered an advanced player? Finally, what's the criterion for an advanced player? Is one an advanced player because he or she can play etudes from a book which says advanced? What do those 3 terms mean to you?

[Thomas]

a beginner is a student,formal or not, gaining the basics without knowledge of what they need to learn,an intermediate player is one who has gained a level of ability for competent performance and gained enough knowledge and experience to realize what their next steps must be to proceed to a higher level of performance and or self satisfaction. An advanced player has learned that much of the stuff learned through the intermediate level has little bearing on true artistic expression and has freed themselves to explore personal expression regardless of popular acceptance

[Jeff Foster]

It may have a lot to do with the player's expectations. I was talking to some fellow guitar players the other day and one of them was going on about how much easier (in his opinion) sax is to learn than guitar. He was telling us about how he picked up sax and was soloing with a band in only a week or so. Not wanting to turn the discussion into a knock down drag out, I choked back the urge to laugh in his face. I've never heard the guy play sax and can only imagine what his little solos must have sounded like. For me, guitar was easier to learn than saxophone but I'm sure that was because I already had 30 years of musical experience on other instruments before I started learning guitar, whereas sax was one of the first instruments I learned to play. I couldn't even produce a decent tone on a saxophone after my first week, let alone actually play solos with a band. It took me a couple of years before I reckoned I had moved from "beginner" to "intermediate" and several years after that before I considered myself (in my opinion) an advanced player. Now, 35 years later, I'm not sure everyone who hears me play even now considers me "advanced." Compared to Coltrane or Bird, I'm still "intermediate." In other words, these terms are somewhat subjective.

[Wailin']

Jeff, exactly my point. Even some of the method books we use for practice are labeled from an objective standpoint of view. An advanced Rubanks or Viola book may be considered basic by many advanced players.