Levels of competency

[nobhead1]

Hi.

As a 'late bloomer' and having started weekly lessons in October 2005, I have made steady, but occasionally hesitant, progress. I would be grateful for your thoughts as to what levels of competency an average Mr or Mrs novice would be expected to achieve after 12 months, 24 months etc. I know there are many variables that will greatly effect the outcome, but some wise sage may offer a little hope for me:?

Many thanks

[gary]

I can understand your wanting a yardstick but this is my "sage advise". You can only do what you can do.

Even if you are obsessed with being a top-level pro, there are never enough hours in the day for development. And even then, there will always be others who play "better" than you or who have more recognition.

As an amateur, I think it's imprortant for you to have some reasonable goals. But you have to balance your "real" life with that. IMO there should be a balance between hard work and simple enjoyment. Decide how much time you have in your day and use that for your music. Once you've done that, the die is cast. Which brings us back to my statement at the top of this post - you can only do what you can do.

[jmartin]

I'm also a "late bloomer." I've been playing for a couple of months now. And after my lesson last night, I'm pretty sure that I'm totally incompetent.

Which, of course, is better than being incontinent.

[gary]

I've been playing for a couple of months now. And after my lesson last night, I'm pretty sure that I'm totally incompetent.
Well at least you've got a lot to look forward to - playing for many more years, getting to the point of some hope and optimism, and then sharing the stage with another saxophonist who sends you home still feeling totally incompetent. 8-)



:D

[jmartin]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.8-)

[gary]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.8-)
LOL. I live to serve. :twisted:

[fballatore]

Well at least you've got a lot to look forward to - playing for many more years, getting to the point of some hope and optimism, and then sharing the stage with another saxophonist who sends you home still feeling totally incompetent.
Gary -

I've mastered vibrato, and just about everything there is to know about playing the sax after less than a year. Am I ready to gig on stage?

Frank :D

[gary]

Gary - I've mastered vibrato, and just about everything there is to know about playing the sax after less than a year. Am I ready to gig on stage?
Stop. You're killin' me. :twisted:

[fballatore]

I can't. I'm trying to overtake you as the most prolific poster. ;)

[Jolle]

After two years I can play a tune, rather fast and rather slow, I start having a little succes on my overtones, but I have some practice sessions where I just give up after half an hour, because hardly any note I try sounds the right way. Doesn't stop me from playing in three different ensembles.

I admit, sometimes I get a remark like "wow, you really dare making a fool of yourself". Indeed. But I have fun, and some musically ignorant idiots even like it :mrgreen:

[The A Train]

I can't. I'm trying to overtake you as the most prolific poster. ;)



Good luck! Gary's up there with 'War & Peace'

[The A Train]

I have fun, and some musically ignorant idiots even like it :mrgreen:




I find it helps to surround yourself with people like this...in fact, I might be one.

[gary]

Good luck! Gary's up there with 'War & Peace'
LOL!

oops - there goes another post

[Jadoube]

Hi.

As a 'late bloomer' and having started weekly lessons in October 2005, I have made steady, but occasionally hesitant, progress.


I can't give you advice, I started weekly lessons one months before you, but here's a point of comparison.

Firstly, its lots of fun. Secondly, my low C does not sound reliably, my sense of rhythm sucks, sight reading leads pretty much everything to be desired, and long notes wobble about like a sine wave. Oh and I don't get the breathing right either.

I hope (in some years time) to reach the heights of being barely adequate. Did I mention having so much to learn is lots of fun?


:cry: "Too late, cock, too late" (Dylan Thomas - Under Milk Wood)

[gary]

Let me add this about comparing yourself with others.

When I was at university, during a composition lesson, I asked my comp. teacher how well I was doing. He paused for a moment looking at some of my music which was sitting on the piano, kind of rocked back and forth a bit, and said, "Well, you're not setting the world on fire, but it's adequate". 8-)

A few months later I was his recommended replacement for a soon-to-be-well-known composer/arranger, teaching advanced scoring at the university and a year later he recommended me for (and I got) a position as the composer-in-residence for a major school system.

My point being, comparisons sometimes tell you very little. Fugidaboudit.

[sopranofreak]

Heck yeah. I could play rings around everyone else in my weekly class two days after first picking up the soprano sax, and I still suck! 8-)

There's always someone who can play you in to a hole - just concentrate on doing what you want to do and enjoying it...

[jmartin]

As sad as this thread seems to be, its very nice to know that I'm not the only one bailing water out of the boat. I guess misery really does love company.

[fballatore]

Fugidaboudit.
Gary -

I hate to correct you, of all people, but being of Italian descent, and having been born in Brooklyn, I must tell you that the proper spelling is "fugeddaboudit".

Frank

[Alun Bliss]

I started having weekly half hour lessons at about the same time. I am now good enough to know that I need to practice more.......loving every minute nevertheless.

[jazzbluescat]

I'm also a "late bloomer." I've been playing for a couple of months now. And after my lesson last night, I'm pretty sure that I'm totally incompetent.

Which, of course, is better than being incontinent.

Well, that depends....

;)

[GAS_Wyo]

I agree with the statements above...where you should be at certain points in time is totally dependent upon the time you put into it. Gary's balance suggestion is fantastic. For me, it comes in waves...I get really hot on playing all my horns for a while, then cool off and play once a week for a while. All I have to do is listen to a certain lick on the radio that I'd like to get under my fingers and I'm into it for another 6 months! I find the summer hardest to get myself into playing. Come to think of it, the spring is pretty tough too! (fly fishing occupies my time away from the family in spring). But I usually take my kids to see a Drum Corps Int'l show every year and I'm right back into the habit.

My point is I have to be motivated somehow to learn more. You'll get out of the 'frustration stage' soon and making noise on your sax will be a lot of fun. My current frustration is with the Jamey Abersold Vol. 21. I know if I don't learn a lot more about jazz theory that I'll never learn to improvise to the level I want. Lessons 7-11 are just kicking my butt sometimes; other times I fly right through and feel that I'm starting to get it under my fingers a little more. My current goal is to get these every time, then I'll move on to the next lessons.

Take heart and "fugeddaboudit". Did I spell it right??? :D

[bartone]

I aspire to incompetency.
bart

[txtate]

Learning to play sax is a journey - not a destination. I think that you should measure how much pleasure you have derived rather than what you can or cannot do. Let's face it - some people pick up playing sax naturally and progress rapidly - others do not. One way to speed up the journey is to play with a group or with an instructor. If you play only for yourself, you'll practice what you feel comfortable with and you won't progress as quickly. The bottom line is to have fun. The more fun you have, the more likely you are to progress. I'll get off my "Zen" soapbox now. :-)

[nobhead1]

Many thanks for the advice given - I suppose I was trying to gain a glimmer at the end of the tunnel. I am enjoying the daily challenges and I dont expect to attain any reasonable standard easily - only enquiring.

Thanks for the comments about incontinency - you obviously know me quite well.

Many thanks

[aquatic]

i bought my first sax in june 2005. Had my first proper lesson in August after realising I needed more help that a book could provide. being a " late bloomer " as you guys describe it has distinct time advantages. Im 44, retired early due to ill health, and get as much practice time as i like. I make a point never to play before 9 oclock in the morning or 6 oclock at night because if lived next door to a sax player, i wouldnt be happy if i worke all day and had some daft bugger making a lousy racket all night. I play a fusion of Jazz and Funk, which I like to call Junk ( im sure I got that off this forum somewhere, but I love it, so Ive borrowed it )

My point to this topic ?? oh yes, i remember,. I also wanted some benchmark as to how im progressing. Not for any other reason other than to convince myself that I am actually progressing, because sometimes it just doesnt seem like it. So I had a chat with my teacher, and she entered me for my level 3 practical examination last wednesday, which i think went pretty good, get the results in another 4 weeks or so. Doing this not only lets me know how im doing, but it gives me something to aim for, enables my practice sessions to be constructive and forces me to buy books that I wouldnt otherwise have bought and am actually quite enjoying.

So if you really want to know how your doing and at what level you are, take a test.

[Pete]

I seem to remember some saxophone luminary once saying something like, "We'd all play like Paul Desmond -- if we could."

There will ALWAYS be someone better at sax, just like I'm sure there are better computer techs than me. That doesn't prevent me from trying to be da best computer tech for the money.

Anyhow, progression is in the eye of the teacher and student. If you feel you're not progressing very far fast enough, talk to your teacher. If you don't HAVE a teacher, there's your problem right there.

There is a kinmd of benchmarking system that I have mentioned before:

In New York State, music is graded for your competency level, from one to six, by NYSSMA (http://www.nyssma.org/). This can be for the soloist, small ensemble or orchestra. I also may not agree with all the gradings, but it is a system.

So, you could say, "Mary had a Little Lamb" is a grade 1 solo. Glazunov's Saxophone Concerto would be a grade 6. If you can consistently play any music picked at random from any grade, that's what your level of skill is. It doesn't matter if you're 5 or 105. You're a grade 1 through 6 player. Jazz is included.

It also does help to define a goal for yourself. My goal with singing is, essentially, to be able to sing ANY part put in front of me fairly well. Might not hit all the right notes, but I want to try to get there. I have lots of subgoals with this, too, and most of them are defined by my teacher.

(I'm kinda retired from playing sax, by the bye.)

In a sense, there is no "light at the end of the tunnel". There is ALWAYS more to lear. And you might also realize that you can reach the level of your own incompetence. That happened for me in college: I realized that practicing six hours a day wasn't making me considerably better and I needed to get a "real" job, so I switched majors. I occasionally regret that. Occasionally.