getting rid of that rubber stench

[baribri]

Has anyone any ideas of how to get rid of that stench of rubber that some either older pieces tend to get or some just get it after they have been worked on a bit. Especially once you start using them and the chamber gets moist.
I have heard some ideas such as vinegar but that doesn't really work..
any ideas are appreciated.
Brian

[Big Nick]

Sadly, I don't think there is a way to get rid of this.
It's a question that's been asked before and no one has come up with a solution that works. I've got a Rousseau JDX tenor piece that I can't bear to play because it stinks so much.
I don't know what the cause is but I guess the rubber hasn't been 'cured' properly. Any chemists out there can enlighten us?

[morgan]

Yeah I'd like to know also. You're talking about that "burning tires" smell, right?

I'm tempted to paint the piece with a smooth clear coat... just the "mouth touch" places, keeping way clear of tip and rails. Don't really want to experiment on my rarest finest mpcs to see if Varathane or lacquer will, say, dissolve the rubber.

Do you think the stink comes from the interior (hot steam on the chamber) or the exterior (saliva on shank) ?

I was guessing exterior, because that's where you see the discoloration ... which I take to be oxidation .. and I suppose it's the oxidized/broken down rubber that smells.

[Mike Ruhl]

Ebonite is vulcanized rubber. The vulcanization process involves mixing sulphur in with the rubber. The smell and brownish-green tint it the result of the sulphur leaching out to the surface.

Surest way I've found to permanently gid rid of the smell of a rubber mouthpiece is to switch to a metal mouthpiece. :wink:

[MS]

Maybe one of the mouthpiece techs will check in. I suspect that some mild buffing with white rouge may help some (of corse not the rails or tip).
Piece can't stay against the wheel long or it will get too hot and possibly warp. There's an art to doing this. I've seen a demonstration holding a hard rubber mps tip against a 100 watt light bulb - softened up the rubber so you could move it around for a moment or two.

Sunlight and air seem to do things to rubber over a period of time. Wonder if storing mps in airtight container when not playing would do any good? :?

[Mike Ruhl]

Direct sunlight (the UV rays) causes the most damage. That's why tires dry-rot.

[MojoBari]

Sugal just markets the smell.

I do not have an answer. I just make them smell and send them back. It seems that freshly filed HR smells more. Is this dust in the air or the smell of the newly exposed surface. Probably both. I would think over time it would get less unless you stored it in an air tight container.

They do not bother me much. If I owned a really stinky one, I'd try soaking it in mouthwash.

[Mike Ruhl]

Sugal just markets the smell.
Ahem...aw, never mind...
They do not bother me much. If I owned a really stinky one, I'd try soaking it in mouthwash.
Tried it. Doesn't help.

[Bill Mecca]

but this is one of the main issues Santy Runyon had with HR and why he opted for the synthetic materials. I think once it starts to leach the sulphur there is little that can be done to stop/reverse the process.

[morgan]

I think I'm going to try coating it in beeswax.

[Kosma]

I love that smell! It's a central part of the saxophonic experience! Just like the inside of a Mark VI case, or cork grease, or reeds.

Jon Van Wie and I had a pretty long conversation about the smell of hard rubber. He was talking particularly about how New York Meyers have a very distinctive aroma. He could tell alot about the quality of the rubber in a mpc by the bouquet. He could tell if a pc was made from a similar compound as an old meyer. i.e. the good stuff.

We talked about what causes the differences in smell. I suggested that it could be at least partly due to rubber from different locations and maybe slightly different strains of the plant. He said that was probably true.

So I'm off topic again...well I thought it was interesting.

[morgan]

It's not the rubber smell. It's the "rubber is degrading / acrid / burning / penetrating / nauseating" oxidation and sulfur smell.

I'm thinking carnauba wax. Beeswax is too soft and melts too cool.

[Mike Ruhl]

I love that smell! It's a central part of the saxophonic experience! Just like the inside of a Mark VI case, or cork grease, or reeds.Specifically, the taste of Rico reeds.

[zadu]

[/quote]Specifically, the taste of Rico reeds.[/quote]

Oh yeah, ya gotta soak those Ric :lol: s in ammonia too,just like the HR mouthpieces, so they soften up a little and quit stinkin'

[rrex54]

As most of this forum may know, rubber is hardened through a process known as vulcanization that involves the use of sulfur and heat. What my explorations of a moment ago revealed is that an end result may be vulcanite -- aka ebonite -- a hard, polished rubber. :!:

Here is a mouthpiece cleaning product with which I have no experience, but which may offer a "solution:"

www.doctorsprod.com/MouthCleaner.html.

(Get it, it "offer a solution" when it is a solution. OK, never mind. It's been a long day.) :roll:

The site notes:

"This convenient powder is dissolved in plain tap water and a short soak will remove mineral buildups, inorganic vulcanizing residues, organic material, odors, and kill bacteria and mold growing in the damp dark recesses of your mouthpiece."

I assume that "inorganic vulcanizing residues" includes sulfur. Has anyone tried this? Anyone game?

BTW in my long ago pipe smoking days, smoke shops used to stock a polish for HR stems that would get rid of the worst of the brown sulfur and impart a nice shine. We're talking essentially a mild rubbing compound -- if you don't mind dulling or wiping out some of the engraving on the piece.

[clarinetman129]

I've found that the Number 10 liquid from Meguiar's is great for most odor and discoloration problems with HR pieces. It's non-abrasive, and has and leaves a pleasant odor after use...just make sure you get it all wiped off after use. I've tried it on my Kaspar Cicero clarinet mpcs. and some old SML and Conn HR sax mpcs. with good success.

And I alos learned from someone I got a piece from on ebay that some French mpc. makers in the forties and fifties stored their HR blanks and even mouthpieces before shipping in almond oil...so I may try that experiment next and let you all know what find.

[zadu]

Seriously good reccomendations! The Meguiars #10 cleaner and the polish (#15 as I recall, the stuff's at the shop) have been really helpful to use on the plastic and HR mouthpieces, I use ammonia water too and think that it helps with the de-slime and removal of sulfur deposit process. I didn't know about The Doctor's cleaning product- I'll bet that it is good; his cork grease is excellent.

[clarinetman129]

I'll try the ammonia water mixture. I know that the Meguiar's stuff is ggod for buffing scratches out of pick guards on guitars too, the reason I ever tried it, and for a really tough mouthpiece I'll use a tiny bit of Flitz paste bfore trying the Meguiar's...it's a bit abrasive but safe if you're careful, never on the table or rails directly. And all are better than the stupid trick I saw in the repair shop of a store I managed one afternoon. The owner was stading at the buffing wheel going to town on something, and when he finished and showed me his work...it was what was left of a Meyer New york tenor mouthpiece. He had buffed the discoloration away alright...and most of the Meyer logo and enough rubber from the surface of the table to shine it up that I had to laugh and wanted to cry. HE thought he had found a new thing...the repairman after that refused to let him in the shop while he was working during the day.

[morgan]

http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5288

[clarinetman129]

I think I had read this, but appreciate your pointing it out again. This whole thread reminds me of the friend who cleaned his month-old Kaspar (this was around 1970) mpc. in HOT water...and let it soak first. The table warped like a green pine board.

[SelmerSaksMan]

The sulphur starts leaching out of the piece when it gets too hot. Vulcanizing is done by heating the piece and cooling it. Try Boiling some water, dipping the piece in the water quickly, and then stick it in the fridge, not sure if it will work, but give it a try on a expendable m/p. I have a 60 year old gregory that has no smell at all, and no discoloration either, the piece cam from poland, Ibeleive the climate there is cool, and I live in ak, cool here too.