C-tenor applicaiton

[TenorReinier]

Hi all,

just got a question which has probably been asked yet, but I couldn't find it here: how well can the C-melody tenor be applied? In jazz (what kind of jazz?)? Ragtimes? Vaudeville? What do you guys use your c-melody for?

I'm asking this because I am really thinking about buying a c melody after this summer. Played a couple last week and quite liked it. But, if i buy one I really want to use it, not only for practicing purposes.

Regards,
TenorReinier 8)

[Helen]

There are many c melody players who post to this board, who could probably answer this question better than I can, since I only play mine for fun in the privacy of my home....But if you haven't yet checked out the c melody forum, you might want to do so.

http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody

You'll find a wealth of information about the c melody there...All c melodies...all the time... :)

[Randall]

Very possible to REALLY use it.
Your biggest problem will be finding a mouthpiece that gives you the sound and response you want. Virtually all stock C-mel pieces I have ever played were too narrow in the tip opening adn made me sound like a choking duck.
The Runyon C mel piece can be good if you get it opened up (I tend to go with VERY open pieces).

[Roger Aldridge]

TenorReinier,

I, personally, use the c-melody for ANY style of music that interests me. I most often use it in contemporary jazz, latin, blues, and some classical. I've even used it on some R&B gigs. It's fun to play traditional jazz and rags on c-melody. BUT, I get the most pleasure in playing contemporary kinds of things on it. The c-melody has a unique sound. It's not the same as an alto or a tenor. Thus, the c-melody enables me to bring a new quality of sound to the music.

Over the past couple of years I've become so impressed with the c-melody's sound and playing characteristics that I've made it my main horn and tend to think of my alto and soprano as doubles. :lol:

[TenorReinier]

Thanks guys for your input. I'll be trying a couple of Buescher Truetones (any comments on this one?) and a straight neck Chu Berry in a few days, I'll let you know how it was. I'm really looking forward to it.

TenorReinier

[knighttrain]

A C-Melody seems just as flexible as any other sax to me. I use 3 mouthpieces with my New Wonder Conn: a vintage unnamed C-Melody piece; a modern Leblanc B6 C-Melody piece with added baffle; and my Tenor Jumbo Java T95. They all have a different sound, from mellow to in-your-face. I believe this sax, like the others, is pretty much what you make it.

[TenorReinier]

:shock:

wow

http://www.saxquest.com./productDetails.asp?productcode=122699ConnArtistCme lody

:shock:

[Randall]

Now DAT is a C-melody!!!
Wonder if they take kids on a trade.... :twisted:

[cmelodysax]

When you try C-Melodies, the secret really is in trying as many mouthpieces as you can - unless you really want the traditional sound.

I was amazed to find that my tenor metal Lawton 8*BB produced a real killer sound ( and well in tune) on a Buescher C-Mel, as did rubber Links and Larsens. But they all need to be 'well on' the neck, and if you try a Conn straight-neck C-Mel the micro-tuner doesn't allow this - so you may be a bit more restricted to shorter tenor, C-Mel, or even alto mouthpieces on that one.

Good Luck, it's well worth the effort, when you get the sound you want ( and in-tune across the range) you'll love it. To echo a previous comment, the C-Mel really is a 'blank canvas' that you can manipulate to get YOUR sound.

Regards, Alan.

[OLDAIR]

I've begun trying to work it into some Neo-Celtic space music stuff. The keys of C-Am-D-Dm-G fall pretty easily under the fingers and match up well with traditional folk music keys. Mostly I just mess around with it at home since my gigging days are over. Will see mostly spot duty in a friends studio.

[Wade2]

Check out the mouthpiece threads on the C-Melody board. They address a lot of these questions. You will find it at:

http://boards.eesite.com/board.cgi?boardset=cmelody&boardid=cmelodym&spec=4 927794

By the way, I love by 1926 Buescher True-Tone C-Melody! I also agree with Roger, use it in ANY music style. It is a great sax!

[Lou]

I play C-melody and banjo about 50-50 with our band, which uses concert lead sheets. The C adapts perfectly.
I've owned several C's, including a Buescher Tru-Tone, but have now acquired and will use FOREVER a 1922 straight-neck Conn. Perfect intonation (the BIG problem with the others), and built like a rock. Would strongly urge that you seek out the Conn of this era, if you're serious about the C. Experiment with mouthpieces for the best sound. I'm using a modern "no-name" C MP with the Conn, but found that modern tenor mp's often work well with C's. Good luck!

[michaelbaird]

I use a Tenor Dukoff D7 on my c-melody. A regular tenor mouthpiece will work fine if the neck cork is thick and you put it on far enough. Be sure to check it with a tuner. I would think it could be used on any style of music. I've even gimped mine out with palm key risers!

[OLDAIR]

I just recorded several tracks last night on a friends piece with the C-Mel. Hopefully he can edit out my mistakes and make me sound better than I am! I had worked up my own improv structure which he had never heard. When we were done he said, "I wrote this thinking that it was sort of straight ahead jazz, but you've put on this sort of be-bop melody line with the voicing from the 1930s, now I'm going to have to play a rock and roll drum part because that the only way I know how to play the drums! It should be weird! " Hopefully it will be a good weird! It sure was fun to do and a good stretch! Maybe I'll post it when he gets it finished and mixed.

[michaelbaird]

Just got back from 3rd & Lindsey a club in Nashville. Rudy Wooten was playing a Conn C -Melody. The Wooten Brothers play mostly R&B, funk, and fusion jazz. I would think as long as you can get a good tone and play in tune, then a C-Melody is as good as any saxophone just a different tone quality. He was playing alot of Charlie Parker licks. I think the only problem doing anything with a C would be just finding a good horn and dealing with the vintage scale. That can be overcome with modifications, palm key risers etc. If you want to play a C-- Go for it!

[dave pa]

If Yani or Yamaha came out with a GOOD C-melody with modern key action, would anybody (besides me) buy it ?

[Roger Aldridge]

Dave,

For me, a lot would depend upon it's quality of sound. You see, there are some fundamental differences between vintage c-melodies. For example, play a Conn c-melody and then a Buescher. The differences between them are striking. It's almost like they are different instruments. With this in mind, I'd wonder about what type of c-melody sound a modern company would use for its design. The unique tonal quality of my early model Conn is much more important to me than modern keywork.

[michaelbaird]

Sounds like time to buy a Conn.

[cmelodysax]

They all have their own particular characteristics, some of which suit one players style but maybe not anothers. As you can't easily go into a dealer and try each model out, why not get together with like-minded C-Mel players in your area so that you can try a few sax/mpc combinations ?

Myself and another UK C-Mel enthusiast ( un-appropriately named 'Captain Beeflat') did that and were able to test play Conn, Buescher, Martin, King and a couple of stencils. Very enlightening !

What next, C-Mel User Groups, or a C-Mel Convention even....... ?

I'd probably come over for that !

Regards, Alan.

[Roger Aldridge]

Hi Alan!

A c-mel user group would be awesome. I'd love to try a wider selection of horns. I've never had the chance to try a Martin c-melody. That would be a kick!

I completely agree with your comment that the various c-melodies have their own particular characteristics and how different makes work well for some players but not so much for others. As with any type of equipment, it's all a matter of personal preference. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the things we don't use.

Even though I like the lighter sound of a Conn c-mel, I'm deeply impressed with the characteristics of a Buescher. It feels like a much more substantial horn. If I wanted a darker, huskier c-melody sound I'd be first in line to get a Buescher!

In fact, just recently I got an early model Buescher tenor and absolutely love it. It's sound is fantastic! I'm now trying several mouthpieces on it. A funny thing about the Buescher tenor is that it's spoiling the alto for me. I started out on alto and played it as my primary horn for YEARS. But, it now feels like such a small horn. ha ha ha In fact, the tenor gives me an even greater appreciation of the c-melody as a good all-around horn in the saxophone family. It's sound is bigger than an alto and brighter than a tenor. Thus, it fills in the gap very nicely between the alto and tenor.

[dave pa]

Thanks, folks for the insights. You love the C-Mel for its unique classic voice. Same reason lots of folks love vintage tenors or vintage altos over the modern stuff. I'm looking for a modern instrument, professional quality, modern keywork, great intonation, that plays in the same key as piano, bass and guitar. I realize it would have a voice between a tenor and an alto. I realize that its sound would vary depending on manufacturer (Keilworth vs. Yani vs. Yama vs. Selmer, etc), materials (brass, bronze, silver), setup and individual player. Oh, and why they are at it, design it to play in tune with existing tenor or alto mouthpieces and reeds if possible as a user-friendly feature.

I know that I can read the piano/guitar sheets and sight transpose up a step for tenor, adding two sharps. I do that now, but I spend too much time thinking about transposition and it takes away from thinking about expression. I simply am not good enough to sight transpose to alto (five up or three down) and add three sharps. And when accidentals come along, then I really have to stop and think.

Wouldn't it be great if there was an instrument available with the same playing characterstics of say a Yani T-901/902 or A-901/902 (actually in between the two) that you could just read off the same sheet as the strings and keyboards? And why do those guys love the keys of A and E so much? If the guitars played in Eb all of the time, it would be easier for Tenor! Instead, we end up in five or six sharps most of the time.

Anyway, that is my wish list, but I do not think any major manufacturer is going to step up and offer one and then market it to the guys who play sax in the electric band world of today. The pro's are good enough, they don't care what key it is in. I'm thinking about all of the weekend warrior, worship band, nursing home gig kind of guys. Like me.

[Roger Aldridge]

Dave,

Since it's probably pie-in-the-sky to wish for a modern concert pitch saxophone as you described, why not think about some realistic options? Given everything you've told us, I'd suggest looking for a late model Buescher c-melody. I have several reasons for suggesting a Buescher. First, it's intonation should be very good. Second, it's my impression that a wider range of mouthpieces may work successfully on a Buescher than a Conn. Third, a Buescher c-melody has a really strong tone and should be able to hold its own in a rock band. Fourth, you might get lucky and find a good Buescher c-mel for a cheaper price than a Conn. In fact, I think that Dave Hoskins -- www.junkdude.com -- currently has a Buescher c-melody in exceptionally good condition that was recently overhauled.

A vintage c-melody doesn't have to be a problem to play. It's a matter of learning something about the various makes, trying out some horns, and making an educated decision.

One other thing to remember is that the particular mouthpiece you use on a c-melody is a big factor in the type of sound you'll get on the horn. Thus, if you're looking for more of a modern sound on the c-melody there are any number of mouthpieces that you can try. I remember someone on the Forum telling us about using a Dukoff on his c-melody. Thus, c-melodies don't have to sound "old". I don't have a vintage sound on my horn. Rather, I like exploring the particular tonal qualities coming out my c-mel that strike me as being unique. If I wanted a different sound, I could go in that direction simply by using a different mouthpiece or a different make of horn.

Good luck to you!

[michaelbaird]

I think you could probably repad a trutone yourself as long as the snaps are intact. I took mine apart cleaned it, cleaned and oiled all the rods, and treated the pads. It was easy since I only did a few sections at a time. I plan on buying a set of pads and repadding it myself. My horn is structurally in good shape; it is a 1921. The horn has turned me into a trutone fan. The sound is loud and strong and the pitch very good. I use a tenor dukoff D7 with a rico 3 1/2 reed. The same one I use on my VI. It works; who cares. I do plan on breaking it out at a blues jam eventually, if I can ever put my VI down :cry: I have to cram the mpc on far and check it with a tuner. After that it plays fine and in tune. The altissimo is as good as my VI. www.runyonproducts.com sells a c-melody mpc. I have yet to ever find a metal c-melody mpc but I would love one. I hear concert pitch well because I was able to hear it first on flute and oboe. I can do it also in Bb. I don't have perfect pitch so I use the tone colors distinct to the instrument I'm playing. They even auction the pads on e-bay.

[cmelodysax]

dave pa

- You couldn't be more wrong (certainly about me) when you say that C-Mel enthusiasts "love the C-Mel for its unique classic voice" - although I do like to hear the rich original 20's sound, when I play my Buescher and Martin C-Mels you would be hard pressed to tell them apart from my tenors, with harmonics up into the stratosphere, and belltones with balls on. (for info, I also play Martin & Keilwerth tenors, and Martin & Buescher altos, all classics which can easily hold their own with any current horns)

I came up (pro for a while) thro' jazz, soul, funk and fusion - playing mostly alto & tenor (with all the other standard 'doubles, including wind-synth). All my playing life I've wanted something in between alto & tenor, preferably pitched in C, to save transposing and 'perfect pitch' problems when changing from flute. It wasn't until I retired early that I started getting interested in the much maligned C-Mel - and I haven't looked back since.

I play C-Mel hard and edgy, or soft and breathy, using all the tenor mpcs (Lawton, Berg Larsen, HR Link) that I've worked with over the years.
And because I'm only 5'3" , on me the C-Mel looks like a tenor....... Of course if I have to play written parts with other Bb/Eb horns then the other horns may well be used to avoid re-transposing.

Sadly I don't think there will ever be a modern C-Mel, and I don't think I'd want one, the build quality on the 'better' 20's C-Mels is superb, and, because of the quality of metal used, they have tonal variety to die for when fitted with decent reflector pads. The late one's have aux-front-F, and the action can be regulated as far as anyone cares to take it. What else do you need ?

My C-Mels certainly aren't shrinking violets, nobody sleeps whilst I'm playing..... :D

Regards, Alan.