View Full Version : Borg' - Anyone else been assimilated?
Borgani Jubilee - Silver Pearl, that is.
Apparently Roberto's (NY) is the sole authorized U.S. dealer of these horns. Anyone else playing them besides Joe Lovano? I'm curious enough that I've a tenor on the way to see for myself.
Owen D
02-28-2003, 09:06 PM
I have been very impressed by these horns. I first stumbled on one at Roberto's in late 2000 when I was actually looking for a Balanced Action.
A few weeks ago I tried a Pearl Gold one from a recent shipment at the Sax Symposium in VA. It included enhancements Borgani included as per Roberto's request. I was very impressed by the buttery low end and free-blowing quality. I had a couple of buddies try it out as well to make sure I wasn't dreaming. They were equally impressed.
I am in the process of ordering one with the optional welded bell to body. At www.borgani.com They quote:
" We offer several technical options to be able to meet the specific requests players express. So, instruments can be made with or without high F #, or with the bell welded to the body in order to let the sound spread easier in the middle low/low register. Mechanics can be adapted to be as much ergonomic as possible."
Andrew
03-01-2003, 08:56 AM
I've heard very good things about them, but I've not gotten around to playing on one of these. Can anyone tell me the difference between the Borgani's top soprano and a Yamaha 875 soprano?
My silver pearl Jubilee has arrived and surpasses my expectations. It has passed the test of proving itself for section work - solid intonation, great response, good volume, and rich tone - with a pretty demanding group of well-seasoned musicians. What can I say - it's a keeper!
I got a copy of our big band's audition CD yesterday - we recorded Monday night going direct to disc with two ambient mic's. This Borg' sounds as good to disc as it seems to me whilst playing. Even with a Lamberson J8 (pretty much no baffle), it rises to the top of the mix when soloing over the full band without a solo microphone. If anyone is contemplating yet not yet committed to trying one of these horns, let me help you out with your decision - You NEED one of these horns!
How great is this? My horn has its own emoticon! :borg:
deebee
03-27-2003, 01:03 PM
I have been playing the pearl gold tenor for about 7 months now and I wouldn't trade it for the world.
A friend of mine sells Borgani in Berlin, Germany. He has a web page devoted to the horn with lot's of great pics. and info.
http://www.saxophon-service.de/homep/angebote/borgani-ts.html
Check it out if you want to get a close look at the tenor.
D. B.
http://www.beecroft.de
Saxaholic
03-29-2003, 04:06 PM
I wonder if these saxophones really are as good as some say they are. Is it a matter of personal preference, or can these saxes really tough it out when compared against a Selmer or Yani? I know that newer companies nowadays are doing a great job...such as Cannonball's, Guardalas, etc etc.
Anyone know how their soprano's play?
I wonder if these saxophones really are as good as some say they are. Is it a matter of personal preference, or can these saxes really tough it out when compared against a Selmer or Yani? I know that newer companies nowadays are doing a great job...such as Cannonball's, Guardalas, etc etc.
Anyone know how their soprano's play?
I guess you'll have to try one for yourself! Of course it's a matter of personal preference - aren't they all?
That aside, I reply with an emphatic "Yes" regarding whether they can "tough it out". I've been playing Selmers for 25+ years and love this horn. Compare it to a Yani? No thank you. I find the Yani tenors lacking in character of sound. This Borg' has real color and soul.
Not exactly a new company - it's a family-owned business that's been around some 130 years! The "Jubilee" line is what's new - that, and their recent efforts to work with artists such as Joe Lovano to develop a modern pro horn.
Check 'em out if you get a chance. I find it an inspiring horn to play. :borg:
McTenor
04-11-2003, 10:26 PM
Today I got my new Borgani Jubilee Tenor(gold pearl). Fantastic. Has it“s own huge sound. Very free-blowing. Sold my beloved Keilwerth-Ponzol, but will keep my Yamaha 62 with Ponzol-neck as backup horn, because I like the good intonation and keywork and you can get a new one everywhere on the world if the old one is stolen or destroyed by an accident.
I“ve played all kind of tenors: Selmer Mk VI, Yamaha 61, Kohlert and so on, but the Borgani is uncredible good.
Mikie F.
04-11-2003, 10:30 PM
My family has one. But not a pearl silver tenor. A regular gold soprano. It has a GREAT tone. Love it. I don't play it much, because I play alto, but my dad plays it and I just love the sounds it makes. :)
saxshooter
04-12-2003, 01:59 AM
I was in Roberto's this week and tried a second hand Yani curved pre-SC901 that he had in the shop and he told me to also try out the Borgani curved soprano.
After doing a side-by-side, I didn't like the feel and key layout of the Borgani. It felt "loose" and unresponsive (weaker springs?). A bit of blowing resistance too. The Yani played much more openly. I thought the intonation was much better on the Yani. I feel the Borgani is not worth the price.
Used a Bari hard rubber .64 with Hemke 3 1/2 reeds.
... and that's why there is more than one brand one saxophone. Ain't it great to have choices?!
:borg:
jjgold
04-26-2003, 03:22 AM
Vintage Borgani...here to stay. Know I have to figure out how I am going to sell three other tenors....You will truly only understand the sublteties of these horns once you get your hands on one....Imagine the singing of a VI, altissimo of The Martin, Midrange of a BORGANI and the bottom of a 10M. Oh yeah and ergonomic keylayout that is the BEST on any horn.....
saxshooter
04-26-2003, 04:44 AM
jjgold:
Hmmm... sounds like a job for Dr. Frankenstein!
But altissimo on a The Martin Tenor? Maybe it was me, but I could never seem to get comfortable with hitting altissimos on that horn. They didn't seem to pop out as easily, especially after comparing to the Ref. 54 which I recently got.
The Martin Tenor is being checked over by Perry Ritter then it is hitting ebay!
But, I'm afraid I'm "off topic"...
Vintage Borgani...here to stay... You will truly only understand the sublteties of these horns once you get your hands on one... Oh yeah and ergonomic keylayout that is the BEST on any horn...
Hmmm, I don't know whether to go for an "Amen" or an "I told you so!" :wink:
Glad to hear that it worked out for you, JJ. I know you took a risk in checking these out because its not a mainstream horn but, as you say, they have it all going on.
Now you just need to learn the secret Borgani icon. 8)
Go for the Tone. :borg:
I am preparing to visit the Borgani factory in September. Does anyone have any advise? They don't seem to answer my email. I am wonder what a tenor will cost factory direct, and what kind of trouble I might expect trying to carry the instrument onto the airplane home.
Thanks,
Leon Mack
They were a little slow to answer my e-mail too. You might call them - the number is on their website.
Whew, I'd love to visit there as well - and bring home several horns! If you cannot carry the horn on the plane, it may be worth having them pack it at the factory for trans-Atlantic shipping and then check it as luggage. The standard case is a little light for dealing with baggage handlers - no where near as close-fitting nor rugged as a Walt Johnson.
Enjoy!
:borg:
Dr. G -
Yes, I am excited about the visit to the Borgani factory. I don't know if you realize it or not, but I am the same person who sold you your Jubilee. I missed it, and decided I had to get another one. I figured, this time to be certain I got the one perfect for me, I'd go pick it. Make a vactation out of it, spend a couple of weeks traveling. I understand that the factory offers three different necks, thin wall, etc., and I am interested in determining the difference. I am very happy that your's has worked out for you. These are great instruments, and when I get mine, I will let you know about the visit to the factory, and what took place there, and etc. Meanwhile, enjoy yours.
Leon
Well, I was 97.3% sure it was you. :lol: Funny, I recall how I tried to talk you out of selling that horn to me and now I'm so glad you did. I do hope you find another that really does it for you.
I was in (and under) the Mediterranean many years ago. Whew... All I can say is "Enjoy!" Enjoy the air, the people, the food, the moment.
And please express my regards to the fine folks at Borgani for crafting some very fine instruments. The Jubilee's are truly artistic tools.
And thank you for becoming a part of my music through this horn.
Hey and oh-by-the-way, Leon,
Could you please also take the time to check out the baby Borg's? I may be ready for a new curved sop sometime soon. It'd be nice to know how they stack up to the modern (and vintage) curved sops (Yanagisawa, Cannonball, etc.).
Heck, maybe you'll want to bring back a few!
:borg:
:?:
Well, Dr. G - I'm afraid to try the soprano, because I might want one. Actually, I have very limited experience with sopranos, and none with the curved models. I play a 24K pre-Jubilee borgani soprano now (straight) which I chose over my Keilwerth, which I sold. So I don't have much of a basis of comparison, I'm afraid.
Leon
Bootman
05-02-2003, 01:52 AM
Try the solid silver screw on bell too on the Sops, these made a large difference when I tried these horns. The Curved models are nice to.
anyone suggest any particular mouthpiece that works well with these?
I play a Barone Hollywood with a customized wide chamber and low baffle but was thinking of experimenting with rubber. Dr G - you play the Lamberson with no baffle? Someone else mentioned this was bright. Someone said there was a Morgan that was darker that worked well. Anyone?
Leon
jjgold
05-02-2003, 03:19 AM
Uh Oh...The Bootser is posting on a new horn area..Do I sense a new purchase of a modern horn from the Bootster?
jjgold
05-02-2003, 03:20 AM
uh oh yeah...sorry DR. G..... :borg:
I've been wondering about the silence from down under about the Borgs, how come Bootman is resisting said I? Actually I'm afraid to try any of them in case they are even half as good as they sound.. and then there's all that choice, especially if you go to the factory. A full report please Leon when you return, especially on the carry on question.
thehighend
05-02-2003, 04:35 PM
Hi,
Do these horns have the word "Jubilee" printed on the horn? Since this model appears to be superior to earlier Borgani models, it would be nice to know how the Jubilee horns can be identified.
Thanks.
anyone suggest any particular mouthpiece that works well with these?
Dr G - you play the Lamberson with no baffle? Someone else mentioned this was bright. Someone said there was a Morgan that was darker that worked well.
A preface - even though I name a lot of mouthpieces here, these are the only the ones that I liked and used for some time.
I've trod the Barone path and found myself going successively darker - New York (actually a few), a couple of Hollywoods, a silver Jazz (that was my favored setup on the III)... then I went to a Morgan "L" (refaced by Jon Van Wie to .110" and still the prefered setup on the Ref). All these changes were across two horns - first a Serie III lacquer, and then a Ref 36. I settled down a for a couple years with the Ref 36 and the Morgan. The Lamberson has even less baffle but is a big tip - Fred's J8 is .120". I use the same reeds - RJS 3S(U) - so the resistance is a little greater on this setup. "Bright" is not at all a characteristic of this setup - certainly no brighter than anything else I have named here.
Bottom line: My Ref 36 sports a Morgan "C" .095 for classical quartet and used the Morgan "L" .110" for jazz until I got the Borg'. The Borgani has become my favorite jazz horn and lives with a Lamberson J8. It might also like the Morgan but I really haven't felt a need to try it.
There you have it: How I came to live on the Dark Side.
:borg:
MikeS
05-02-2003, 11:33 PM
Bob Rockwell, one of the best tenor players around today IMHO, has definitely become one with the Borg. I saw him play today. He has a silver pearl Borgnai tenor, that he says is the best horn he has ever played. Based on what I heard today, I have to agree. I have heard him play two different VI's, a Ref 54, and a 10M. The only horn that comes close is the 10M. It sings, and wow--the subtones. For the record, Bob uses a vintage HR Link and RJS reeds.
jmd23
05-06-2003, 04:50 AM
What recording artists play them other than Lovano? Does anyone have a clip online to listen to? I'm interested in checking out its sound but they don't seem to be easily available to get at in person.
Thanks,
Josh
If you go to the Borgani site it has links to current players. One of them is Jimmy Greene, and he has downloadable mp3's. He has a nice sound but it doesn't overwhelm me.
A certain British distributor of the Borgani line has informed me that one cannot visit the factory without an appointment, and that one cannot buy one at the factory. Borgani has not answered my emails. Anyone have any information on this? (I plan to go to the factory in September, unless the above information is factual.).
Leon
joćo tavares
05-12-2003, 03:25 AM
Hey borgani guys i am very very indecise betewen the pearl silver and the vintage tenor's, and i d'ont have the chance to test before buy here in Azores islands (in the midle of Atlāntic ocean) !!! After some phone calls with Mr.Orfeo (very friendly guy) he advise to me the Pearl Silver with welded bell,metal ressonators and standart neck, but on the look i think i prefer the Vintage.Some of you guys can give to me moore feedback about the sound caracteristics about this two beauties.I need to decided!!! :roll: My email is open jfbt@netc.pt or joćo_tavares01@hotmail.com
srcsax
05-12-2003, 03:57 AM
Joao, i have been to the Azores, and i have owned unlaqured horns. You should buy the Pearl series. Otherwise that nice vintage look is going to turn to green crud fast. the salty air will not be good for bare brass. I know, i did that once while living in Japan next to the ocean. he humidity in the summer and the salt air turned my unlaquared tenor green.
The silver (or gold) will look and sound great. I have played them all and they are all good horns. I have a silver plated tenor Jubilee and a pearl gold alto Jubilee. I love them!
srcsax
05-12-2003, 04:00 AM
Leon, even the Borgani web site invits you to visit! I am sure your dealer just wants you to buy from him.
But i would bet (having lived in Italy for a few years) you will do much better to make a long distance call than to wait around for an email reply. Also, September is prety close to vacation time. You'll want to make sure that they will be there and that horns are available.
Hey there, Son of Zorn - that's good information - I will call them. I suspected as well that the dealer was misinforming me, but when you point out that I want to make sure that there are instruments available, that is a good point. Especially if they only make a limited amount, as is claimed. I did check to make sure that there were no national or local holidays during the time I will be there, never thought about vacation. Anyway, I'll call (though I don't speak Italian) and see what I can find out. And I will let people know how I progress. THanks.
Leon
This is a question for Son of Zorn as well: You mention of the Borganis that "I have played them all". That being so, I am curioius as to why you chose the Pearl Gold alto. I have spoken with one who selected the Vintage, and I onced owned a Silver. Some say the Pearl Silver is darker, some say the Pearl Gold. What did you sense about the Pearl versions that distinguished them from one another?
I was going to visit the factory last year but they were on holiday all of August (ferragosto), as is a lot of Italy, don't know where they all go. As I was away from the end of August I didn't get a reply (email) until I returned.
I have a silver plated tenor Jubilee and a pearl gold alto Jubilee. I love them!
... but no Jubilee sop... <sniff, sniff> :cry:
8) :borg:
joćo tavares
05-13-2003, 03:40 AM
son of zorn i presume that you have been in Azores wen you come in the marines, this is a beatiful island(S.Miguel) and very humid ! You have give me a good reason for not buy the Vintage and go with the Pearl Silver, wat do you think about the horn come with the bell welded to the body? I presume this is the larger diamtre , like the SBA.Tank you for the advise.
Morry
05-13-2003, 04:29 AM
For those of you in the collective :borg: , WWBW has some Borganis listed in their "outlet" store.
Thanks, Morry. They have had a mix from time to time - sometimes Jubilees, sometimes others. I wonder if they get odd pieces from trade shows and then sell them for cost.
:borg:
I have two Borgani's (sorry neither is the Jubilee model) that intend to put up for sale very soon. Need to get some pictures taken, etc. One is the Vintage Ponzol model. This is a HUGE sounding instrument. It's unlacqured brass, and what I love about it is that each note speaks with equal and strong defintion from top to bottom. This is the most powerful tenor I have owned. If you are playing jazz gigs, forget about that micorphone. Very few of these were made, and Peter Ponzol has told me recently that he personally set up each one. It has the same big bell and bore of the other Borgani's, but the ergonomics are closer to a Mark VI. The unlacqured brass is polished (not buffed) at present, but will eventually fade to that unlacquered Vintage appearance.
The other is a 24K gold tenor Borgani, the model that preceeded the Jubilee. This one is basically a new instrument. The previous owner played it little, since he had an arsenal of tenors, including another Borgani. Its just gorgeous, and plays like a dream. I will give more details and pictures soon. I have promised the orginal owner a shot at buying the 24K back, and am waiting for his reply. He gets first shot, then its up for grabs.
Feel free to email: MLeamac@aol.com
Mmmmmmmmmmm, Borgani. I'm looking forward to hearing more about that Ponzol model. Don't know why I'd need it, I can figure that out later, I s'pose.
Still planning on getting another Jubilee? I'm diggin' that one you sent up here.
All the best to you and your's,
George
:borg:
Well, I have the Ponzol Borgani long enough now to know that is real player's horn. The power it has is just beyond anything I have owned previously. What is especially nice about it, is that each note from top to bottom seems to have equal value - no diminishment - and speaks with amazing definition. Perhaps because it is unlacquered, it has nice resonance, but the main thing is power. It is called a "Vintage" model, and is meant to have vintage sound and does, but it's not really a Selmer sound. It's more of it's own thing. But it's very pleasant.
Peter Ponzol told me that very few of these were made, only about 500 or so, and that he personally set each one up.
The ergonomics are different from the other Borgani's I have played. It's more like a Mark VI. The only drawback for me is that the keys are spaced a little farther apart than I would like, but man, what POWER!
So, playing this Vintage and liking the power and sound, but having small hands, I what I hope is the best of both, and have purchased a Vintage Jubilee, which is awaiting shipment.
So now I need some money to pay for it. Hence, if you know anyone interested in the Ponzol, pass the word for me. They won't regret it, and in fact will love this horn.
Leon
jacco
05-25-2003, 03:49 PM
Hello,
There is a Borgani tenor, Jubilee Pearl Silver fore sale at marketplace.
Al my best!
jr
Saxaholic
06-02-2003, 04:00 PM
Anyone have a Pearl Gold Borgani alto? ( Jubilee) How do they play? I might be selling one eventually for an insane low price of $2500. The horn is like new, but I wanna really get a feel for it before I decide. Hmmmm.....
srcsax
06-02-2003, 08:41 PM
See my ad in the equipment for sale section
http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=4107
srcsax
06-02-2003, 08:42 PM
Saxoholic, your post confuses me. You are asking how they play, then you say you may be selling one soon???
Saxaholic
06-02-2003, 08:59 PM
Sorry Son of Zorn. I'll try and clear it up.
I should have one on the way that I got a good deal on, but I was just curious if anyone had a heads up on how they played. If I really don't like it, I'll probably end up selling it. That's what I meant, sorry if I confused you.
srcsax
06-02-2003, 09:44 PM
No problem. I have been up since 4PM welcoming in ships all morning. Now that the Lincoln is moored, i'm off to take a nap!
There is another Jubilee tenor for sale on the marketplace forum.
Leon
scale_master
06-07-2003, 06:12 PM
Leon,
just out of curiosity: what makes you sell your Borgani?
I don't expect you putting down this horn now, I just played
one recently, and although it is a well made horn, I thought
that it is not the character of sound I am looking for. I like
my SBA and MKVI tenors better (guess the Selmer 'core').
Thanks,
B.
To answer your question - I am selling the Borgani to obtain a different Borgani. I am still in love with these instruments. But I have a Vintage sounding horn in my Mark VI, and so am after a sound that is an alternative to that. I am thinking maybe gold plated, or Gold Pearl.
Leon
srcsax
06-08-2003, 06:25 AM
Hmmm....i'm going in the opposit direction. I'm selling a bright silver Borgani tenor and a Pearl Gold alto and headed to the Pearl Silver saxes.
Zorn - I'm curious - In what way do you consider that to be "the opposite direction"? I played a Pearl Silver Borg, very nice indeed, but I wouldn't say that it had a vintage sound.
srcsax
06-13-2003, 05:55 AM
I meant that you went from silver to unlaquared, i am going from gold to pearl Silver. Where you started.
joćo tavares
07-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Tank you Leon for your help in your email's.Joćo
joćo tavares
07-24-2003, 01:05 AM
Dr G i want interested in your opinion based in your experience betewen your's Ref 36 and the Pearl silver.Because i have to decide in the next 15 days with horn i go buy i have the prices from saxophones co uk for the Ref 36 $4.000 USD and the Borg PS/PG $3.300USD new...The sound the tone the versatability the mecanic's the best performance in sutdio the more easy to play etc...
Tank's
Joćo
My email is jfbt@netc.pt
Check your e-mail...
:borg:
joćo tavares
07-25-2003, 06:54 PM
Dr G i have just recived your email in this moment,and i go read now...
Tank you very much.
Regards
Joćo
joćo tavares
07-31-2003, 04:56 AM
I want tell you guys this topic it's very important for my final decision today, i have make the bank transfer today for Orfeo in italy for a Pearl Silver one with high F# key, welded bell and standart neck maybe in 3/4 days the horn arrived here in Azores islands in the midle of Atlāntic ocean betewen the USA and Europe.
Tank you for every input in this forum and the emails some of you have benn send to me.
Sorry my poor english
the best for all of you
Joćo :oops:
Did you get the Borg' yet?
:borg:
joćo tavares
08-11-2003, 01:49 PM
Yes i have the tenor PS Borg sax with me about two days and i have play( about 15 hours ) with an new O.Link HR tone edge 6* rico jazz select 2s and 2 m.It's an amazing horn and that sound is right for i am loocking before and it's very easy to play compared with the SerieIII that i have saled about 5/6 mounths.I love this horn but i need to loocking for a new HR mouthpiece because the O.link Hr tone edgae 6* is to closed for me.Tank you guys.
PS: I sugest to the Borgani players in this forum to create a '' Borg SETUP'S '' FINISHIES and MOUTHPIECES/REEDS.
WAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS IDEA?????
Excellent news! Congratulations! 8)
Mouthpieces: old Link designs with modern execution in hard rubber - Ralph Morgan "L" series and Fred Lamberson "J" series.
Reeds: Rico Select Jazz 3S(unfiled) on .110" tip openings and either Vandoren (blue box) 3 or Alexander DC 3 on .095" tip openings.
Lig: Francois Louis on all.
:borg:
Joao -
I too would be interested to know what setup people are using successfully on their Jubilees. I have not found a metal mouthpiece that compliments either the one I own now, or the one I owned previously. They seem to want rubber or I guess wood, though I have never tried wood.
I play a Barone Hollywood on my Mark VI, it is the so called "Limited" model with the extra large chamber, and very little baffle, and its wonderful on the VI, but not on the Borg. I have a rubber Yanigasawa
8* that was in the drawer for years and which has come out for the Borg.
I do feel I could find a better setup for this wonderful instrument.
I am waiting for Phil Barone's wood models to become available.
Leon
Hey Leon,
Which Borg' are you playing now? Last I heard, you were selling one and thinking about getting a different finish.
All the best,
g
:borg:
Nevermind. I just saw your post on a parallel thread about finishes. "Vintage" it is!
Cheers,
g
:borg:
joćo tavares
08-13-2003, 12:21 AM
Hi Leon i am using now with Borgani pearl silver an new Olink hr tone edge 6* and i have tried an Bari 105 and my old O Link metal STM.The Bari i d'ont like and the OLink STM metal i think d'ont work very well in this sax i prefer the O Link hr tone edge 6* this is my set up in this moment with vandoren java reeds 3 1/2 or Rico select jazz s or h 3 probably in the future i think to change for another more open mouthpiece but i need some feedback from some Borg users in this forum maybe Dr G have an great experience in this field.
Tank's
PS: Orfeo tell me David Sanchez have recived two Borg jubilee a few days ago.More one great musician with an beatiful instrument....
J- I got really lucky with the Lamberson that I am using. It's a J8 (.120") that plays more like a .110". I use the RSJ 3S(U) but may be switching to the Alexander DC's if they prove consistent on this mouthpiece. The Morgan "L" .110 is great but there is just so much MORE in the Lamberson - more color, more flexibility, more dynamic range... It's one mouthpiece that my friend _really_ wants but will never get - he already has most of my old Barone's and Lawton's - because it really makes the Borg' sing.
:borg:
Dr G and others - was reading some posts - it's been awhile since I have done so - thought I'd clarify - I sold the Vintage Borgani and purchased a Pearl Gold Jubilee, which has turned out the be the correct finish for me, though they are all good in my opinion. The instrument was set up by Randy Jones, who went for a cross between a Selmer and Conn sound (according to him, anyway). I am very very happy with it, though I suspect that I have not yet found the ideal mouthpiece for it.
Yeah, these Borgs are wonderful indeed. I am not the only one who thinks so. Everyone in the band much prefers it.
By the way, still have a Ponzol Borgani for sale.
Leon
Great to hear from you again, Leon!
Did you play the new horn before and after Randy worked on it? I'm curious as to how/whether he actually changed the core sound/character or "just" refined it. Did he repad it or make any significant changes? I'm also curious to learn what he thought of the pigskin wraps in the linkage - whether he replaced those with some other material or considers them adequate for longlasting adjustment. Mine are still holding up well - it just seems, well, archaic.
I echo your observations that others can hear the difference that the Borg' makes - it's got its own voice and it's a great one!
Let us know where the mouthpiece quest takes you.
Go for the Tone,
George
:borg:
srcsax
09-22-2003, 10:20 PM
Leon, what you need now is a Pearl Gold Alto :-) Let me know if i can helpyou find one. Hmmm.....what's this sitting next to my desk? Oh! It's a Pearl Gold Alto for sale!
Zorn - don't play alto or I would have jumped on yours back when it was first offered. I'd put in on consignment. Playing/hearing is believing.
Dr G - Randy said that he wanted a "darker sound" and felt that the Pearl Gold was the darkest, and for now that was the only finish he was dealing
with. This was his prototype model, his first, he was taking to a NAMM show, (or some similar conference) so he really went around the clock with it. He replaced the boosters, felt metal was too bright, then inserted plastic, felt it was too dark, then ended up putting the boosters UNDER the pads - don't ask me why. But they have stayed well seated. The key heights are less high than Roberto's were when I bought the Pearl Silver you own (I had those closed some later, before you purchased it). I haven't compared to Roberto's other than from memory.
leon
Great stuff, Leon. Thanks for sharing.
:borg:
miles_ahead_music
09-24-2003, 12:07 PM
Not being a Borgani guy, this eBay listing seemed pretty interesting. For those of you who know Borgani instruments, what kept this alto from selling at the price it was listed? Just curious.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2559412431&category=16 232&rd=1
The serial number indicates that it is of the model that preceded the current Jubilee series. Previous models are considered by many to be of intermediate quality. The Jubilee is a serious pro horn. As I understand it, the Jubilee series started in '97 and production is on the order of 350 instruments a year. Jubilee serial numbers include a "J".
srcsax
09-25-2003, 03:08 AM
There are differences between a Jubilee and a regular Borgani. THis one on Ebay is probably one of the $900 ones from the WW and BW.
The front F key on a Jubilee is a metal pearl drop as well as the B bis key. On the pre-jubilee it's a pearl button. I believe the bell / bow connection is also a different set up as well. The shape of the high F# key is different as welll
Is the body any different? I don't know. It looks like the keys are different though and perhaps even tone hole placement differences.
srcsax
09-25-2003, 03:10 AM
Also all Jubilee saxes say Jubilee on the bell and /or bow. They all have serial numbers ending with a J.
miles_ahead_music
09-26-2003, 03:25 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Very helpful indeed!
I haven't written awile, and have had the Pearl Gold Jubilee that was set up by Randy Jones for a couple of months now. It very quickly became my tenor of choice for the (primarily) acoustic jazz setting I play in, because of its warmth, precise intonation, and room-filling sound (spread) (as opposed to projection, which I define as throwing sound forward).
For the R&B gigs, however I stuck with my 83000 Mark VI. It just seemed funkier and nastier. This week there were 15000 motorcyclists in town, and we played the premier venue in the center of it all, good sound man, clean break room, bottles of cold water and beer provided. And it was close enough for me to walk home ( a long walk but nice, breezy, etc.).
Anyway, the experience may have just about done it for me with the 83000. I played it the first night, took the Borg the next, and that was it.
No question about it, the Borg could get right down and dirty with the rest of them, and it was so much more fun and less fatiguing to play.
I may even end up letting the VI go.
These instruments are not for everyone, apparantly, and yes they are high priced with a low monetary return on resale, but after two months I just keep enjoying mine more and more. Still looking for the mouthpiece I feel is compatible for me on the jazz gigs. The Morgans for me probably lack resistance, metal is not what I want for this (have a very nice Barone that worked well on the R&B). Concerned that Lamberson may be too bright.
Just bought an ebony Barone NY that should be in the mail this week.
Will write when it arrives.
Leon Mack
mark_m
10-20-2003, 09:51 PM
Fred Lamberson makes a range of pieces from bright (DD) to dark (Fmaj7). You might call or email him to discuss what you're looking for.
http://www.fred.lamberson.com/
Great pieces. Good luck!
Hey Leon,
It's always great to hear from you. I, too, have been growing ever fonder of my Borg' but stop just short of declaring it my classical horn.
Lambersons... I'd let you try mine but... Hmmm, maybe I'm just not that nice a person. :lol: Anyhow, dark enough? You betcha - my favorite on the silver pearl Jubilee is a way husky J8. I cannot imagine a darker mouthpiece that blows so big. This is Fred's no-baffle wonder - you have to wonder how it works so well. My second fav is a Lamberson 8SB - that's probably his abbreviation for Short Baffle - it's about two steps brighter than the J. I use a Francois Louis lig on the J8, a Rovner dark on the SB.
Regardless, give Fred a call, talk to him, and tell him what you want in a 'piece. Fred is a tenor player and especially knows tenor mouthpieces. He'll work with you to make sure you're happy. Check out his return/exchange policy at his website.
Enjoy!
:borg:
Thanks, Dr. G.
I have already sprung for the barone ebony, so the Lamberson idea will have to wait. Phil hasn't disappointed me yet. I bought it at at 'buy it now' price on ebay for 325 so figure if it's not right for the Borg, can always recoup.
Leon
swingerini
10-21-2003, 01:59 AM
Lamberson's a great great craftsman AND player, yes !
I use a hard rubber DD and a wood L in tenors and they are have
great sound and flexibilty . I also use his DD Bari piece and SB & M
chambers on alto .
Fred, interestingly, is not a big web presence like other maker ; he
doesn't make appearances like Sugal, Barone, and recently Jeff Powell,
who I think is/was associated w/ Guardala mpcs. , on the ' net forums.
It seems he prefers to spend his time making mpcs., being with his
family, etc. ,, but he is an unsung talent in the creation of products that
help to produce beautiful sound .
My search has been over for a few years mpc.-wise since Tim Price
turned me on to Lamberson's craftsmanship .
I was talking 'bout the Borganis here a few years ago, and have been
playing the tenors and sopranos for around 3 or 4 years, now, I've
kinda lost track . :lol: They really surprised me in terms of quality
of sound ; I couldn't believe it when I first tried the soprano .
I hadn't heard or played anything that perfect in soprano tone at that
point, just really solid ,warm, and effortlessly in tune .
The 1st tenor I tried was a Jubilee in 24K goldplate that just floored me
with the power, warmth, projection and clarity of response .
I had 2 good Mk VIs, an early 50s Super 20, and 3 prime vintage Conn
tenors to compare it to, and it more than held it's own ! :shock:
I couldn't really justify buying it at that time and sent it back .. only later
to re-order it while it was affordable .
Soon after I bought a pearl silver tenor that had something a bit different
but equally appealing in it's sound and response .
I still have my other tenors but , as it's been said here for some months,
now has really brought out a real piece of artistry .
Bravissimo to the Borgani family for delivering old vino in a new bottle !
Hey Leon, here's Fred descriptions: "L (tenor only) - The bore is a copy of a 1950's metal Link that Pharoh Sanders gave me. J (tenor only) - This is a modified L that has almost no baffle, it is my darkest piece.
It's interesting to me that Swingerini is using a DD (next step brighter than my SB) and an L (next step brighter than my J) on a gold pearl Borgani (next step darker than my silver pearl). 8)
Swingerini - what sop are you using (finish, straight/curved)? Is it actually marked with a "J" in the serial number (ie, a Jubilee series)? I'm so floored by my tenor that I'm getting a real jones for a baby Borg' to replace my Serie III - a sop that, for me, has outperformed everything else including Selmer Mk VI, Buescher TT straight and curved sops, Couf Superba, Conn, Yani, etc., ad nauseum.
Salute!
:borg:
swingerini
10-21-2003, 05:21 PM
Dr. G - actually the 24K tenor I sold to Leon after he sold you his horn,
So I just have the Pearl Silver tenor and Pearl Silver Straight sop.
It's a great axe, has a detachable bell and an available sterling silver
bell that I _don't_ have .
That 24K tenor had the J in the s/n as does the sop, but my Pearl Silver
tenor does not . It's not a Jubilee model, but it's the same horn,trust me.
S/N is 19K same as the Jubilee that I sold as a favor to Leon.
My theory is, since the Borgani Family made/makes small batches of
horns, they had just come up with the last version of keywork when they
started calling their line Jubilee series .
My tenor has a slightly wider spacing on the RH pearls, and a pearl
Front F .. the LH table is placed silightly differently, aside from that ...
I know at one point Robertos claimed that the WW&BW horns weren't
as good as the " current production " but I never believed that .
The forum's own Tim Price turned me on to the soprano, I ordered one
sight unseen, and was shocked at the sound
the SOUND :Shocked: :dazed: :Shocked: :dazed: floored me !!!!
When I went up there to compare notes, we were surprised to find out
that the horn were the same and were only within a few numbers of
each other .
WW&BW had just a few Borgs left over and I was lucky to get 3 for the
price of one @ Robertos, who of course, has the Distribution deal, now.
RE: the Lamberson's, yeah they just have the sound and feel that I want,
although Phil makes a decent product; I played a New York model of
his a few years back that was pretty good. Ha one of his Hollywood
models and didn't like it as well .... but everyone's a little different .
Lamberson's not gouging prices and his stuff is world class, IMHO .
I actually plan on getting a J, SB, & M chamber in tenors in the future
to experiment with ; Fred' mouthpieces knock me out .
I think the M chamber would be particularly good on my 30s Conns .
:borg: :D
Tim Price
10-21-2003, 10:52 PM
FWIW-Bobby Keys from " The Rolling Stones" bought a pearl gold tenor...
Ya know- till I heard KEYS blow it.....I realized something.
THESE TENORS CAN TAKE IT....you can NOT overblow them.
Keys was on TV playing " Can't you hear me knocking" and was
into it...it sounded ridiclously great. He might even hurt Keith Richards
on the volume :lol: :shock: hahahaha- But the tenor was there in the mix big time.
Anyhow- its something pretty cool IMHO.
Thanks to you both for the Borg' updates. If it wasn't for sharing like this, I never would have discovered this great tenor.
Cheers!
:borg:
swingerini
10-22-2003, 05:24 AM
Dr.G -- email me ASAP, : We need to talk sopranos !
kneeljung@aol.com
Thanks !! :D :borg:
Tim Price
10-22-2003, 12:32 PM
Borgani is very hip...he knows.
I've been speaking to him...about the ~perfect C melody Sax~
My ideas he likes...
It is-get the ....C MELODY.. straight. Like a stritch/ straight alto!!! :idea:
One piece. Neck & all....like Borgani curved sopranos :!:
The sound would be full of energy :mrgreen: 8)
I hope Borgani trys it :D
Lovano would go nuts with it...cuz Lovano likes that kinda stuff as do I.
But IMHO...that would be a modern vibrating C melody.
So Tim, are you into curved sops or do you prefer all your horns straight? Any interest in playing a straight tenor or all you needs answered with the Serie III as it is?
I dig the idea of curved sops from the perspective of easy mic'ing and I like their balance. The only harrumph I have with the Buescher curved sop that I owned was that my fingertips kept hitting the bell keyguard and I could never get used to the distraction.
Cheers,
George
P.S. I think we should get a whole discussion section devoted to "Cookin' with Tim". I used to love all your recipes on the newsgroups. Just last night I was doing a ginger-tinged tofu/red cabbage/bok choi stir fry and I was thinking "What would Tim do to jazz this up?"
Dr.G -- email me ASAP, : We need to talk sopranos
I agree. Check your mail. Talk to me. 8)
:borg:
Tim Price
10-23-2003, 12:09 AM
So Tim, are you into curved sops or do you prefer all your horns straight? Any interest in playing a straight tenor or all you needs answered with the Serie III as it is?
I P.S. I think we should get a whole discussion section devoted to "Cookin' with Tim". I used to love all your recipes on the newsgroups. Just last night I was doing a ginger-tinged tofu/red cabbage/bok choi stir fry and I was thinking "What would Tim do to jazz this up?"
> Dr G- Hmmmm....a few thoughts. When Tofu is referred to, it usually means Spring Creek Nigari Style Tofu.Do you use that? That is my fav.It's extra firm. But-If the softer tofu in the aseptic box is used, it'll be noted <(box tofu mostly gets used in cream sauces)>.That creates a diff thing.
I might thow a ~diacon~ in there to for some cool tastes.
I bet you had some cool dinner that night...YUM 8)
I use my Silver 3 Tenor a lot....most times.I love my scotch straight to :lol:
I use curved & straight sopranos....as I do various gigs and need the varied scope of those voices sonically.
I do have a straight tenor - My man Hans Dulfer inspired me to get into it and I use it...as....A STRAIGHT TENOR. Ya gotta bring the tube outta those straight saxes otherwise fergit it. On my stritch...I use a plexi glass
Francois Louis custom mouthpiece. It rips~ :Shocked:
Francois is amazing on stuff like this.But Lamberson is outta sight to;
the Francois was a gift from him in a way I never expected so-it was a blessing.He saved my tail on my career in ~STRITCHIN'... 8)
On my straight tenor ...I use a custom Lamberson with a longer baffle.
Its called a 8LB =for long baffle.It shoots the air in the TUBE hipper just like the Louis does.
The hassle w/ straight tenor/alto is transportation via planes.
But if I gotta....I'll get on a plane with a bari -or a row boat if I need to. :lol: Ya just gotta be nice to the folks at da' gate.
Hope this helps- here's a special dish you'll love...try it and let me know :wink:
Capellini with Roasted Red Pepper Sauce Makes 8 servings
Ingredients
1 package (16 ounces) Capellini
1 jar (12 ounces) roasted red peppers with juice, divided
1 tablespoon olive or vegetable oil
3 cloves garlic, minced -or more as garlic IS a good thang 8)
2 cups heavy whipping cream
1-1/2 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon pepper
1/2 cup (2 ounces) grated Romano cheese, divided
3 tablespoons fresh basil leaves, cut into thin strips (optional)
Then;to cook-
1. Cook capellini according to package directions; drain.
2. Meanwhile, chop 1/4 cup roasted peppers; set aside. Purée remaining peppers and juice in food processor or blender.
3. Heat oil in large nonstick skillet. Add garlic; cook and stir 2 minutes over medium-low heat. Add pepper purée, cream, salt and pepper; cook over medium heat, stirring frequently, about 6 minutes or until hot and bubbly. Stir in 1/4 cup cheese.
4. Combine hot drained capellini with pepper mixture. Top with coarsely chopped reserved peppers, 1/4 cup cheese and basil, if desired.
Dr G- check http://saxontheweb.myforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=8988
I put one there you might like- its hot!! :D
Thanks for the insights and the recipes, Tim. Most excellent all the way 'round.
Mmmmm, scotch. I drank a LOT of scotch during my college years when I was a physics major. So much that I don't need any more! :lol: Tequila and gin are the fav social lubricant these days - "El Grito", "Milagro", and "Bombay Saphire" - and all in much greater moderation than when I was younger. 8)
Be well and safe, happy travelin' wherever you go. I imagine that it can't be getting any easier to get special treatment on the airlines these days. I just saw Pierre Bensusan recently and he was talking about how he got hung up in customs for FOUR hours on his trip over from France. :cry:
Cheers!
Tim Price
10-23-2003, 09:20 PM
BTW-Dr - there's some modern II-V and Diminished stuff within the V7
chord on the Philly sight.
Check here-
www.larrysimprovpage.com/LarrySite/timprice/timprice.html
http://www.larrysimprovpage.com/LarrySite/timprice/timpricemini3.html
Have fun :!: Thanks for your kind words to :wink:
Hey Tim!
I just got back from a 3 1/2 master COOKING class where _every_ dish (including the the ice cream with caramel sauce) was made with red chile! I wish you could've been there. Tamales, scalloped potatoes, eggplant adovado... Whew, I've got to sleep off this chile buzz with the dogs. :lol:
Let me know if you're interested in the recipes - 'd recommend the adovado.
SWINGERINI - calling SWINGERINI... Come in, please! Check your e-mail. I think you've got something I need! 8)
That, and a new thermostat for my home heater. Winter's comin' on...
:borg:
Well, I fixed the thermostat myself - turns out all it needed was a "Universal Thermocouple Assembly". Less than $5.00!!! Whoeeeeeee!!!!! :D
Now, back to business. Calling SWINGERINI, CALLING SWINGERINI! 8)
Good news, folks. I heard from Swingerini and <drum roll> tomorrow is his birthday!
Happy Birthday, Swingerini!
:borg: :dazed: :lol: :roll: 8)
Windswept
11-21-2003, 08:58 AM
I've recently been assimulated, a J. Lovano Borg tenor with pearl silver finish...
Any of you fellow owners got any hints/tips on care of the finish? Do you use polish, just let it develop a patina?
I'm using Meguiar's cleaner/wax - same as I use on my lacquered horns. It removes tarnish and seems to inhibit further tarnishing. I apply it whenever I take the horn apart for cleaning and lubing the mechanism - about every six months. The rest of the time I just use a (clean) cloth diaper to clean the horn after each use.
Welcome to the collective! 8)
:borg:
Windswept
11-27-2003, 08:18 AM
Thanks Dr G. And amazingly Meguiar's cleaner/wax is available in the UK. One further question do you use the liquid or paste?
Liquid. Great stuff for saxes, guitars, cars, motorcycles... Cleans and protects well and doesn't take much work at all to get good results.
KevyD
01-09-2004, 10:15 AM
If you go to the Borgani site it has links to current players. One of them is Jimmy Greene, and he has downloadable mp3's. He has a nice sound but it doesn't overwhelm me.
I'm a good friend of Jimmy and have known his playing since he used to sit in with our college ensembles when he was in high school. I have to point out that his mp3's on his website are from Brand New World recorded in 1999. This is a few years before he got the Borgani. He was using his Mark VII on this recording. He preferred the Mark VII over the VI simply because of the larger keywork. He's a big guy.
You really can't tell much from mp3's anyway. You have to hear live to really understand what a player sounds like.
Jimmy's sound fills up the room no matter what he plays on. I know he really likes the horn. I think he sounds super on it, but you will sound like whatever you sound like.
It's a very heavy horn. I play a late model Mark VI and I couldn't imagine holding a Borgani for very long. I can't comment specifically on playing Jimmy's horn as I've only held it, but he's a nice guy, why don't you contact him through his website?
joćo tavares
02-17-2004, 11:55 PM
Before i bought my pearl silver borgani tenor with the bell weded i have the help from Dr G and to i have to write to J. Greene to ask about the horn and he tel me the best ( a superb instrument ) it's a nice guy and play beautifuly...
As some of you may know, I am rethinking my horn stable and have already set in motion a further thinning-of-the-herd by selling my much-loved Serie III sop. Since I've been preparing for an upcoming concert with my classical quartet, I have been playing my Ref 36 exclusively for the last several weeks. So, I thought that maybe it was time to consider selling my Borgani Silver Pearl Jubilee.
Well, I took it out of its case last night, put it together, greased the neck cork, and applied a Lamberson J7. Bottom line? Not for sale! Sorry. This remains one great playing horn and has a voice of its own that is at once complex yet so different from any Selmer that I can easily justify (to myself) keeping it in addition to my Ref 36. The action is wonderful under the hands and the dynamic response is sheer joy. What a great horn. 8)
:borg:
GenericGuy
02-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Man, you freakin' tease. Thought I'd be making you an offer on a second horn for a moment.
GenericGuy
02-19-2004, 07:34 PM
Man, you freakin' tease. Thought I'd be making you an offer on a second horn for a moment.
Jon B. Bop
02-19-2004, 08:36 PM
Dr G,
I find your comparison interesting, as I'm thinking of getting a second tenor to go with my Mark VI (87,xxx).
I want a horn that will give me something different then what I have. I tried a Borg last year, and loved it, guess I'll have to go back and try it again :D
Enjoy! They are great fun - and very musical.
:borg:
flora3
02-19-2004, 09:40 PM
Just want to comment on the Borgani discussion, I“ve just bought a curved silver Borg sop - great horn - but be careful when you buy them without trying them! In the last two years I“ve tried about 20 different kinds, silver, gold, vintage....alto, sop and tenors - I would say 33 % of them weren“t proberly made, toneholes would have to be redone in order to fit the pads, they had simply massive leaking problems that needed a more comlex overhaul - $$$$ extra!
But.... my experience, if you get the right Borgani :shock:
Flora3
There is no escaping the collective - I have been recalled. :borg:
Dr. G -
Yes, I am excited about the visit to the Borgani factory. I don't know if you realize it or not, but I am the same person who sold you your Jubilee. I missed it, and decided I had to get another one. I figured, this time to be certain I got the one perfect for me, I'd go pick it. Make a vactation out of it, spend a couple of weeks traveling. I understand that the factory offers three different necks, thin wall, etc., and I am interested in determining the difference. I am very happy that your's has worked out for you. These are great instruments, and when I get mine, I will let you know about the visit to the factory, and what took place there, and etc. Meanwhile, enjoy yours.
Leon
Please have a look here in the mean time
http://www.hobbysax.com/Borgani.html
and please don't forget to e-mail me when you'll be in Italy ok?
I live near the factory, if you want we can go there togheter.
all the best,
Stan
Tryptykon
09-08-2006, 07:49 PM
There is no escaping the collective - I have been recalled. :borg:
And you have yet to file a report with me re: Operation Sterling.Front and center ... ten , hut !;)
IOW..... where's that PM, dude ??
Sorry for the delay(s)...
Great horn - even more briestly than the silver pearl Jubilee!
VERY full low end - regardless of volume. Excellent response all 'round. Easy under the hands. LOUD - if you want it to be.
Of course, this horn is more of a prototype than a production horn given all of its custom features - perhaps it's not fair to compare to the rest of the Borgani's. Or maybe it is, as I understand it to have all the latest suggested design details - improved F-bridge, custom pips, welded (soldered) bow, custom improved pads, etc... Oh yeah, it's real pretty too!
I'm just grateful to the seller for allowing me the privilege of buying this horn - and even more grateful to all of you that thought about buying it but failed to act before me. Highest marks to ambiXonic for absolutely compulsive detail to attention in setting up this horn.
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