Getting back to the bari

[Mark]

Hi,

I'm looking into getting back to playing bari after a layoff of almost ten years. I'm a drummer by trade, but have loved the bari since Harry Carney wowed my then-teenage soul. I played it in my final year of high school, then not again until 1993. I got back into it and played a Yamaha YBS-61for about 3 years, then grew tired of playing full blast in an over-amplified environment all the time. It's way fun to do that on drums, but not on sax, at least for me.

That, along with a change in personal circumstances saw me sell the Yamaha. I was also never really enamored with its sound, as it seemed a bit tight and lacking warmth. I of course was using a large Dukoff mpc, but acquring a Selmer H showed that I could warm it up somewhat. But I think what I missed was the sound of my old high-school horn, which was an old Bb Conn (1960's vintage).

And so here I am again, almost ten years later and thinking about getting back into it, just for my own enjoyment. I do need to find a horn, and will be happy with a low Bb, especially as I'm inclined towards a vintage horn. I browsed the archives of this fabulous forum, and also looked at the saxpics site and others. I understand that the 12Ms are getting pricey, and was happy to note that other old horms might give me the sound I'm lookin for, such as The Martin, some of the Kings, and the Beuscher TT and Aristocrat.

And funnily enough, I just found a dealer selling a 1924 TT in silverplate for $1500! That seems like a pretty good deal to me, though I guess I should make sure it's not High Pitch! I'm not too worried about the elderly keywork, because I haven't played enough to get to get too used to the modern feel. I think I should just grab this old beast before it disappears.

Any thoughts and advice on this make of horn, as well as just getting back into the bari in general would be most welcome! And when I sold the Yammie I had the good sense to keep the Selmer H mpc., so I knew I'd be back. Just knew it... ;)

Cheers,
Mark

[Dave dix]

That buescher will be low pitched , buescher did not make true tones in high pitch from that year
Dave

[Doc Frazier]

Mark, email me at JandJ_Woodwinds AT bellsouth DOT net.....I can help you.
I have a 12m I'll let go cheap(it plays)!
Doc

[Mark]

I did buy that TT! :D What can I say - I'm a sucker for very vintage (1923) and silverplate! It's even keyed to high F.

I bought it from the Brass and Woodwind Shop in Victoria, BC, and they told me the horn was on consignment from a local guy that was unloading some of his collection. They said he owned the horn for a couple of decades at least. I'll ask if I can get in touch with him to see if he knows any of its earlier history.

Photos at the store's site while they're still up:

http://brassandwoodwind.ca/BuescherBari_142XXX.html

Now I wait for it to make its cross-country journey...

And thanks again, Doc, for the offer of your 12M.

Mark

[Dave dix]

Nice looking horn!! and let us know how it plays
Dave

[shmuelyosef]

...nice case...I would have the neck checked by a tech when you get it, too. Might have a slight pulldown, and if you get it fixed it will be more rugged.

jeff

[Mark]

My lovely True Tone bari has arrived, and it safely made the 4600 km cross-country trip from Victoria, BC (Canada). Actually, it was almost 5000 km, due to Canada Post shipping it to Ottawa via Montreal, which is 200 km to the east! (Not sure why they did that, given Ottawa being the country's capital, thus not exactly a postal backwater.)

Anyhoo, the good folks at The Brass and Woodwind Shop (http://www.brassandwoodwind.ca) did an excellent packing job, first by putting foam all around the horn in its case (the case's bell strap is still functional), then packing the case into a larger cardboard box. This box was layered top and bottom with a sheet of 3" foam, and then stuffed with foam peanuts and a few styrofoam chunks. The horn came out with only the high E key slightly out off-centre, and this was easily adjusted.

Considering it is 83 years old, the horn is in very good shape. There is one tiny dent in the top bow, and a very shallow, small one under the hook ring, and that's it! The case is very worn on the outside (no handle, lotsa duct tape, one corner broken), indicating a certain amount of use. But I guess the fact that it's the original case shows that it perhaps hasn't been gigged every day of its life.

And the sound? Well, while I'm glad I kept those old mouthpieces, the one old reed is not a happy thing, so while I can run some scales and get an idea of the beast, new reeds are needed (perhaps try the Fibracell?) in order to really hear this thing. But so far the bottom end rumbles in a way my Low A Yammie never did.

The ergonomics of this horn are interesting, but I'm sure I'll get used to them. Being a vintage machine the left and right key stacks are aligned, which makes them feel a bit odd, since modern horns have them slightly rotated towards each hand for better comfort. My right hand in particular feels like it has to reach for the keys if I keep my thumb where it feels right under the rest (and I'm 6'3" with large hands). The G# key is of course just a pearl, and the high Eb key is more of a nub than the other two (not sure why they did that), but it doesn't feel too bad. There is no roller to the low Bb (only ones are between the C# and B) but again, I'm sure I'll get used to it. Right now I'm just a bit amazed that such an old, fairly complicated thing is even still in working order!

To shmuelyosef / jeff: yes, I'll have the neck looked at, though it seems OK from here. The case is as bad as it looks on the outside, but inside is fine. One corner has lost a bit of wood, but a fresh piece or two and some duct tape should fix it up, and once a handle is added the case should do for now (especially since the horn is probably not leaving the house until I get my chops back together).

Now to go and get some reeds and get said chops into shape. I want to make this nice old beastie sing...

[Dave dix]

Glad your happy , for the money the true tones are a good deal, my 1929 one has the pearl G# as they didnt change the bari format when they done the alto and tenor around 1926.
Dave

[Mark]

Hi Dave,

What is your mpc. / reed set-up with your TT, and what sort of music are you playing on it? One does not often hear about bari TTs, so how did you discover it?

I'm using the Selmer E for now with a Vandoren 3. I may switch up to the Selmer H at some point, but right now I'm liking the sound I'm getting. I'm going to pick up a Fibracell 3 today and try it out, and I've heard some good things about the Legere reeds as well.

Two things I noticed right away with my TT: the intonation is quite good, and it has more rumble than my Yamaha 61 ever did! (though this may be due to using a more closed mpc. than the Yammie's Dukoff D9!). This is the sound I was looking for, and if I ever need the low A I'll just make up one of those PVC extensions. ;) I think I really lucked out here, because the horn is in such great shape for its vintage, and plays better than I thought it would, considering the age of the mechanism, and the length of its delivery trip (figured I'd have to get a tech to re-adjust *something*).

After a few more days of playing I'm getting more used to the feel of it, and really digging it! I had been concerned that it might feel a bit clunky, or just not the sound I was looking for, so I am pleased that it worked out (yes, I do have the 1-week trial period, and this horn is not going back!). The TT definitely has a bigger, warmer sound, and certainly more 'personality' than the Yamaha, and it makes me want to play it. So all I can say is :)

And now, back to the long tones...

Mark

[Dave dix]

Mark , i normally play rock'n'roll and R/B with my t/t and use a metal lawton 8*b mpc but i also use my old dukoff D7, both work great on the bari and i use medium la voz reeds. I have never used fibrecell and theonly other synthetic reed i have used was a white plastic thing that i threw away as i couldn't keep my bottom lip on it!!!
I bought it from a music shop in London UK (michael whites) years ago after trying out quite a few horns. conn 12m, boosey/hawkes, low A selmer and a few others and the true tone was just better in sound and playability.
Dave

[soreliprick]

I picked up a '27 TT from a local repair guy when he had it on auction. It has all the snaps {something I prefer with Bueschers, for no real reason} and I only paid $425, with no shipping, and one of those small-wheeled bari stands with the clamp that surrounds the bell. Beat you on the price, but the main tube was so beat up I had to have it taken apart to dedent, a new post for the low Bb rod and one up top for the octave mechanism after the rods had to be drilled out, and a couple of new rods, a new low C# and B guard had to be fabricated, and the strap ring was half worn through so I had them put a heavy duty one on. That set me back about 4 months and $300. So $1500 sounds like a great deal.... I did all the repadding and corks and regulation myself, except for one last trip to the shop when I couldn't get it to subtone. They bent a couple of cups and its a massive machine now, out toning and out voluming my Martin Committe and Committee I. The ergonomics on the Martins are better but I prefer the TT.
I've got a Guy Hawkins metal 8 thats nasty, but I picked up a couple of old muffler sized hard rubber 'Steel Ebonite' "The Woodwind Co. New York" pieces, ones a B5, the other a K6. They give a real meaty sound. I also picked up a hard rubber Conn marked REVELLI, which was supposed to be a model the University of Michigan used in the marching band. Its even deeper in tone - no altissimo need apply here. Thought you might stay on the lookout for one of those mufflers. I'm tempted to give Lamberson a weeks wages for one of his fine pieces, but these seem to fit my limited needs. I noticed my left thumb was developing welts from trying to heft the dead weight, so I made a Martin-style plateau out of some thick cork to surround the octave pearl, also made a key riser for the palm D out of the same stuff, got a little bottle of silver paint, you almost can't tell...
My story is too long but I'm glad to welcome you to the TT bari club:bass:

[Mark]

soreliprick,

I think those old clamp-on stands for playing sitting down looked rather practical, and wouldn't mind having one. I think I can figure out how to make one using one of my old double-braced cymbal stands. Are you on the Left Coast of Canada, or the U.S.? (I've only heard the term used up here, but thought I'd check.) My horn was advertised at $1275 USD, so that makes it look like an even better deal!

I bought a #3 Fibracell, and loved how it played right away without any soaking or fiddling. It seems a bit buzzy, but I think that's also because it's a bit harder than the Vandoren 3 it replaced, and I'm not used to harder reeds (used 2.5 with the Dukoff on the previous horn). Heck, I'm not used to anything, having not played in ten years! But I'll keep at it, because messing with wooden reeds pleases me even less than dealing with wooden drumsticks. :P

I'll keep an eye out for some of those big mouthpieces (and please feel free to let me know of any you might come across). When I sold the Yamaha an S-A-T friend bought the Dukoff separately because he liked it so much (even though he doesn't have a bari! But he does borrow / rent one on occasion, and wanted a mpc. that he liked). If he still has it I should borrow it just to see what it sounds like on the TT. For personal playing at home I would love to get a big, dark sound. A friend of mine plays classical trombone and baritone horn, and suggested we get together and do some duets, which'll be easy, due to the Eb / bass clef trick. I told him he might want to wait until my chops and intonation are a bit better...

[Dave dix]

A real nice mpc for power and a bit of depth (wait for it ) is a stock welklang piece. I have got one, no size on it but it measured around 102 thou, they are as hard as iron a bit like the old bakolite and are bloody cheap if you can find one
Dave