changing from alto player to tenor , problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[catfishman123@hotmail.com]

Hi i have been playing my keilwerth sx90r solid nickle alto for some time now and love, it about a month ago i bought a yamaha 82z tenor but have had problems, i love the sound of tenors, but at the moment it just feels horrible to play as well and stuffy, is this right???? what do u recommend, i play on a lawton 8*B but have just swapped to a berg 110/1.

[jimmitch]

I found that my tenor sound was good when I went from alto to tenor you need more breath support on tenor and a lose embouchure I use an oleg mouthpiece 6 with 2.5 reeds Keep at it the z is a great horn I have a z alto that I love good luck

[gelliot2]

When I went from alto to tenor I had exactly the same experience (I couldn't really play much below a D and it all felt very breathy in tone and stuffy).
In my opinion, the tenor is an entirely different animal - I say this because I didn't notice too many problems when I went from alto to soprano.

As stated above, the Tenor requires a lot more air and stronger diaphragm/throat control. Just keep at it and really try to focus on filling up that horn with air.

As for mouthpieces, they are very subjective of course and I would just advise you to find one that is comfortable to play. I went from a Berg 110/2 to a Guardala Crescent and now have finally settled on a Vandoren V16 T77 (which I now play exclusively). I prefer open pieces on all my horns but that's just me.

The main thing is to have a sound concept in your head and keep practising. It's taken me a year but I've finally got the tone together. It's worth it when you get there!

[saintsday]

I learned on tenor and after a long time away restarted on alto. I'm 54 and a heavy smoker. The tenor doesn't really take that much more air, but it is a different embouchure and you do need a lot more diaphram if not lung power. You might also try the old mouthpiece shuffle some more. Although I tend to prefer a very resistant piece on the alto (vintage Buescher and an SML), on tenor I like a very free blowing Sparkle-Aire 7.
Keep at it.

[gelliot2]

I don't mean to disagree but doesn't more diaphragm/lung power mean it needs more air?

[Dentarthurdent]

It is not just about breath support. The tenor has a different harmonic structure to it's sound - you have to spend time with it practising long tones and overtones to get a feel for it. The tenor is a willful beast - you can't just 'impose' yourself on it or it will just sound thin and ugly. Learn to work with it. I had similar problems when I got a tenor (I started on alto).
I have a Z tenor and it is amazingly free blowing and flexible. Stuffy is not in my horns vocabulary!

[Jerry K.]

With a little patience your tone will come around. I had the exact same experience you're having when moving to tenor. I remember going to all the local music stores and playing horn after horn, looking for one that wasn't horribly set up. I played Yanis, Yamahas, Selmers, ... Unbelievable how poorly setup all these horns were!!! That's what I thought anyway! Truth was I didn't have a clue as to how relaxed my embouchure needed to be as opposed to alto, what was the appropriate reed strength, tip opening, etc... After about 2 weeks of an hour a day it all sort of just came together. Suddenly I could play the full range of the horn and not sound weak and lame. If I were you I would start with a moderate tip opening and a 2.5 reed and really concentrate on relaxing and slowing down the air-stream. Thing like when you try to fog a window, you kind of open your throat and the air is slow moving and warm. That's more what you're looking for.

[bartone]

I played an Alto with a berg 110 until about 5 months back when I bought a tenor Yamaha Z (laquer). Great horn - I love it. I've discovered a great mouthpiece to really open it up - the Ponzol M2 (S) 110. I'm playing with a 2.5 Rico Royal or a Vandoren ZZ 2.5 and the thing has a GREAT tone. Someone mentions the great tone almost weekly to me. I figured the Z wouldn't be the brightest horn, and would need an open mouthpiece with a baffle. To me, it's a perfect combination. As mentioned above, tenors DO require serious airstream support.

bartone

[Alexk]

Catfishman, that Lawton 8*B is one serious mpc for someone going from alto to tenor. That Berg 110 is probably a bit big too. Keep them both, as they will be excellant after you master the tenor. Good choice of tenor too! Try something a bit smaller, Berg 90? for a while. Going from alto to tenor as already posted is a big step in air support and embouchure change, so sort it out with a smaller mpc, and then move back through the Berg 110 and then maybe the Lawton. Have fun!

[SilverNeck20]

I agree with Alex about having too agressive of a mouthpiece for the transition. I did it years ago. I was playing a meyer 5 on alto, and went to tenor playing a Berg 100. I didn't get the sound I wanted at first, but in time (way longer than a month), it worked really well for me. I wasn't taking lessons at the time, and had no one to give me any kind of advice on this, but I persisted.

Good luck

[Jolle]

Advise? Practice. If you want to have a mouthpiece that comes closer to the alto, you should try a classical one with a smaller opening. I admit, I neglected the good advice of a senior player to start with an ebonite mouthpiece and stay with it for at least 5 years. But I have to admit that even after a year of playing on a jazz-mpc (Berg steel 115), I still have troubles after half an hour. It just demands a lot more from your embouchure and your air support than a ebonite with a smaller tip opening.

But as Dog Pants said somewhere else on the forum, there is but one thing that makes you play : practice.

[catfishman123@hotmail.com]

i have been playing 1 1/2 hours a day, it is improving but i still fell a bit unconfortable on middle d, e ,f they sound kinda sueaky if that makes sense

[saintsday]

Catfishman,
It seems that a lot of tenors have a little stuffiness or buzz around middle D. Come on experts, what needs adjusting or is that the nature of the beasts?

[catfishman123@hotmail.com]

i think its me, i am really strungling whether to sell this piece or not, if i sell i would go for something safe like a tenney link 7. do any of you know what a berg larsen 110/1 stainless steel 1940's duckbill slant sig long table with a $325 complete rework from theo wanne would be worth?? i am told they are the rarest of them on mouthpieceheaven

[catfishman123@hotmail.com]

its this one '1940-50s Long gradual Sloping Toothguard. Very long table that extends beyond the reed. These have a bullet cut chamber and a fatter body, and are the rarest of all the Bergs' but it has had a complete rework

[bartone]

Hint - call wwbw.com and ask to audition a Ponzol M (s), perhaps 110 or so.
You'll love the Z.

I didn't like my old standby berg when I changed to a Z (from a VI).

[unsafe_sax]

When in High School Jazz Band, I bought a 60's Mk VI Selmer with a Brillhardt LevelAire mouthpiece. I thought that buying the best pieces meant the best combo. The setup blew like a brick and I was new enough to the art to think it was my fault.

Somewhat later, I bought 3 new Yanagisawa saxes. They were Selmer knock-offs and felt right. I played as many mouthpieces as I could on each. I ended up with 2 no-name mpcs (alto/soprano) and a Meyer for the tenor. They fit me, the horn and the sound I want to make.

30 years later, I'm playing those same horns and mpcs....haven't found anything I would spend the several thousands it would take to replace them that I like well enough.

Try as many combinations as you can - nobody can get the sound or feel that you want for you.

Devon

[motorcitymark]

I was an alto guy who now brings it on gigs as well but just cant get into the feel like I do the tenor. Breath is big but I play with a in your face growly power feel and then when I go to the alto I just have trouble getting into that alto mind. But anyway it takes time to drive your tenor, just sit in the pocket with chords and pop the hits with your drummer and take off when it comes around to the solo. See it turns you into an animal lol good luck really. I also play a S80 with a dukoff 8 and a plasti-cover reed 3-3.5 and my Jody jazz DV 8* is on the way. I want to get even more bold and not tear the lip up as much with the really high work. Mark the sax man