Going vintage

[-TH]

I've decided to sell my Selmer MkVII tenor and get a vintage tenor but there are so many choices that I can't decide! Conn Chu's, Martins and Buescher Aristocrats interest me at the moment the most. Pity, that I can't find any good sound clips to hear how do they sound...

I sold my Yani alto and purchased a Martin HC alto and I haven't regretted it at all. My only concern was the intonation of the older horns but my Martin plays wonderfully in tune and the sound is much more personal (interesting) than what it was with the Yani alto. So, I'm considering of doing the same kind of trade with my tenor. I'm looking for a dark, strong tenor sound. I play mainly standard jazz tunes and some funk/R&B.

Thanks!
-TH

[gary]

I'm looking for a dark, strong tenor sound. I play mainly standard jazz tunes and some funk/R&B.Conn 10M Lady Face, Dude. ;)

[EZ]

Keilwerth New King for the tone. 10M's being more free-blowing, generally.

[JL]

there are so many choices that I can't decide! Conn Chu's, Martins and Buescher Aristocrats interest me at the moment the most. Pity, that I can't find any good sound clips to hear how do they sound...

My only concern was the intonation of the older horns......
Thanks!
-TH

I don't know that sound clips will help you all that much, since so many other factors are involved, like recording equip, mpc/reed choice, and the player. Also you can't get a feel for how the horn plays from a sound clip.

Conn 10M or Chu, Martin, or Buescher would all fill the bill for what you describe. On the intonation issue, I'd say a well-set up Aristocrat will give you the best intonation. I always struggled a bit with intonation on my MKVI tenor. Since I started playing an Aristocrat ('49 "156" model) about three years ago, the intonation problems have been solved, and the tone on that horn is incredible. I just added a '39 Aristocrat to the quiver and man, it is fantastic---maybe even easier to play in tune, not to mention the SOUND. Of course, you can get a great sound with a Conn or Martin also. You just have to try them.

[Dave dix]

I second the aristocrat choice my 1939 series 1 is spot on intonation wise , better then my 53 156, the martin ,10m and chu. The series 1's are just superb
Dave

[Grumps]

I went from VII to 10M. Would recommend it highly.

[Pete Thomas]

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/pic-sax/xs-05-nakedlady.jpg

[Mactenor]

Conn IOM or King Super 20........BIG sounding horns

[-TH]

Thanks guys! The problem is that here in Finland the market of vintage saxes is nonexistent. I'll have to buy the horn from overseas and that means ofcourse that I can't try it before buying..

The Conn 10M sounds tempting. Thanks Pete for your great samples!

-TH

[GHawk]

C'mon Pete, tell us what you really think:D

[Roger Aldridge]

It's hard to go wrong with the vintage horns that have been listed so far. It all comes down to personal preference as to which one to select.

For me, there is nothing like a 30's Buescher for having a huge dark vibrant sound. I've tried several Conn 10Ms. They were excellent horns. But, none of them had the special tonal qualities that I experience with a Buescher. My Buescher of choice is a 1934 New Aristocrat. It has a "ringing" tonal quality that I haven't found in other Buescher models.

In my opinion a good test of a vintage tenor -- besides intonation and overall sound, response, and keywork -- is how it plays in the low range. It's my feeling that the low range on a tenor is what makes a tenor a tenor. Ya know? A Buescher's low range is like a force of nature. It's sound is HUGE! In this respect it leaves a Conn 10M in it's dust....at least, that's been my experience. The horn that comes closest is a Martin.

[hornimus]

A Doefler & Jorka, which can sound like everything else listed -- JK, 10M, Aristo, Martin. I know, no one will second that recommendation..... (Interestingly no one has put in much of a voice for Kings....) Seriously (ahem) I think you should consider getting your chosen vintage horn without financing it with the sale of your Mark 7. There will be days when you want that Selmer back. It's having the choice of axe that makes them all desirable at some point. 'The grass is always greener ...." sort of problem will return to haunt you. My 2 yen.

[JL]

wind.miller makes a good point. TH, if at all possible, you might want to hang onto the Selmer and just add a second horn to the mix. Then, when, or if, the Selmer starts gathering dust, think about unloading it. Yeah I played a friend's Silversonic a couple years ago that was a smokin' horn and I still kick myself for not buying it from him (we couldn't quite come to an agreement on price!). But it had nothing on my Buescher and the Kings do have a rep for inconsistent intonation, although it's probably just something to adjust to.

TH, if you buy from a reputable dealer, you can usually get a trial period and you'll also get a horn in good playing condition (which is very important).

Dave, I'm really diggin' this series 1 'Crat tenor! I've had if for only 2 weeks but played it on a couple of gigs (I'm mostly in the blues/funk/R&B genre) and it's something else. I'll post more on it, and how it compares to my "156," in the Buescher forum after a few more playing sessions. It's a real gem, original silver plate, snaps, the works, in pristine condition.

[JL]

A Buescher's low range is like a force of nature. It's sound is HUGE!

Oh yeah, so true. When I hit the low Bb on my Buescher tenor, I have to back off a bit and be careful not to injure anyone!

I think probably the same could be said for a Conn or Martin, though.

[rispoli]

If finances allow I'd suggest the same of wind.miller: get one of those and see if you really like it more than the Mark VII (keywork, tone, volume, etc...) before you sell it.

[Dave dix]

I know what you mean about the low Bb , one of the theatre songs i play is DUM DUM by Brenda lee in concert Db and solo by Boots Randolph , end of solo Bb3x2 then low Bbx2 repeated. You have to step back off the mike for the low Bb as the speaker cones may dissapear!!!
By the way , i have a tenor mk7 also which i bought new around 76-77 and it has not been used for years
My 156 is a tremendous horn also just a bit spread sound rather then focussed as the series 1 due to the 156's larger bell
Dave

[Giganova]

I think you would be a fool to sell your MkVII -- but that's just me :D

[Saxland]

Check out :

http://www.bobackermansaxophones.com/bobs_corner.html#

He has sound samples and he told me a year ago that one of the albums he used a martin recording. He sells them as well. I think from what I have discussed with you and read from your postings that you want a horn that has a heavy metal composition. Martin, Buffet Dynaction, Conn Tranny, Keilwerth New King or Tone King pre 20,000 made in the Czech republic.

If I understand Bob correctly, the tone comes from inside the horn with a heavy horn. There is not a secondary sound wave vibrating off the metal. A pure tone. It makes sense to me. If I had $ to burn I would look into a Martin. They just seem so lush. My tenor of choice is a Buffet Dynaction. Phone Dave at Junkdude, he is really good at pinning down what I think you are looking for. He has a few heavy bodied horns from smaller sax makers, mostly altos I think but he could answer alot of questions that do not apply to modern horns.

[58tenor]

That VII is a badass horn. My friend plays one in an R&B band and he just RIPS! DO NOT sell it until you have played awhile on another sax. Everybody here has their favorites but too much emphasis is placed on the horn. It is the least important part of the setup regarding tone.

I bought a nice 10M awhile back. Big disappointment. Yes,it had a nice tone. The keywork was way awkward. My hands just hurt after playing it the ergonomics were so weird. Altissimo was really difficult. Yeah,I could have worked it out-but why? I want a horn that's easy for me to play.

Going from a MKVII to a vintage sax will be a big change. You may love it. You may not. Unlike lovers, it's OK to try out a new sax before casting off the current one. Buying a 60 year old sax you have not played is a gamble. Sound clips are utterly meaningless. Too many variables.

[Dog Pants]

I've decided to sell my Selmer MkVII tenor and get a vintage tenor but there are so many choices that I can't decide! Conn Chu's, Martins and Buescher Aristocrats interest me at the moment the most. Pity, that I can't find any good sound clips to hear how do they sound...

OK...I might be the odd one out here, but....Wouldn't it be a good idea to hang onto the Mk VII until, and only until, you play a horn that sounds markedly better to YOUR ear???
I'm not trying to be negative, rather, I'm curious as to why you want to sell a good horn, to purchase a vintage horn, that, in your own words, you know SFA about???
Sound clips, even un-pro tooled, will tell you far more about the recording environment and equipment used in the recording, than they will about the sound of the horn when YOU play it with YOUR set-up.

Then again, it could be just me...

[Grumps]

I held on to my VII... don't play it much, but I held on to it.

[usda]

I wouldn't know a Mark vII if it bit me...or a 6 for that matter...just not in my karma so far...and age and money is against me.

But I did once own a naked lady...but going into the army..and family moving etc took it away.

I did run across a locally owned Beuscher tru tone stincel. It is heavy as hell...leaked so bad I thought I would experience lung collapse playing it. And tried to sell but one call and it fell through.

Finally, I bit the bullet, after new pads and numerious trips to the tech for tune ups and getting a Fl STM link mp...the horn finally begin to come together. Still found the horn required more breath than I, at first, was willing to give. By getting my diaphram moving, and a great volume of air (actually playing it probably is darn good for my lungs forcing me to really move some serious air.)

Anyway it's tone is really mellow and the low notes will open the lower chakras.

Getting a vintage from a good dealer/tech sounds very wise. OTOH you could pick up a cheapy but would probably need a complete rebuild and numerious adjustments to get it playable. And the pinky keys will just take work. The stack keys are really nimble, fast and easily playable.

[Pete Thomas]

Just out of interest here are 3 soundclips (mp3) of 3 different tenors

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-a.m3u

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-b.m3u

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-c.m3u

The Martin
Hanson
Conn 10M

(not in that order)

[Dave dix]

There's not a lot of difference but if i had to choose it would be 1 2 then 3
Dave

[hgiles]

Oh yeah, the Buescher's have a ballsy tone -- no question about that one. I have a 49 Big B and it has the nicest tone of an tenor I have played. Trouble is the key work is just worn out and sloppy! My grandfather literally played it to his grave. Some of the pearls had to be replaced from erosion!

[chitownjazz]

TH I know you play jazz, and play it well, so I don't know if the experience of a mediocre player on the classical side is useful or not, but here goes, for what it is worth.

Played back in the 70s in a military band on Selmer equipment. After my enlistment was up in 79 I put the horn down until a couple of years ago. Suddenly, free of any external influences such as teachers, other players, and gigs, my taste took a turn to the vintage sound associated with the Rascher school.

I started out buying a Buescher New Aristocrat alto. Kept the Mark VII for a while but sold it and have no regrets on that score. Even sold a mint Mark VI soprano - only regret there is that I wish I'd held out for more money ;) The sound of those old Bueschers is just SO different - I really don't see how you could get a comparable sound out of a modern Selmer. (Yeah, yeah, I know I sound mostly like ME, but ME is modulated siginifcantly as it is expressed through different equipment).

As much as I like the New Aristocrat, there are things I don't like about it, or to put it differently, still after a couple of years haven't adjusted to completely. The resisistance of the setup is far greater (play an old Buescher mouthpiece too) - I'm still adjusting to that. And still adjusting to certain aspects of the keywork - definitely doesn't lay under my fingers as comfortably as the Mark VII, and the add-on C# articulation makes for a REALLY hard to depress key. On the other hand, the keywork is much quieter than the Mark VII. If I were a better player or had more time to practice, probably I'd be thoroughly acclimated by now. I guess the point here is that there IS an adjustment process you go through.

All in all, I'm happy with the change, but I'm still experimenting with other horns and mouthpieces and haven't settled on a "final" selection yet. I agree with others that if you can at all swing it, keep the VII for a while until you find a vintage horn you like better.

[SilverNeck20]

I'll throw in another for a Super 20. I'm sure that's a real surprise to some of you. :) Martins sound real nice too, but it looks like there's a lot of votes for a 10M.
Not being able to try is a real bummer.........it's the best way. Especially when you go vintage, they're so inconsistent within the same brand.
Good luck.

[saintsday]

I played my '33 New Aristocrat side by side with two new Allora (B&S) tenors that a friend had from WW/BW and her first comment when I played my horn after hers was,"It's so much louder." Same tired lungs, mpc and player. The size of the flare on the German horn was huge compared to the old Buescher, but the huge sound came from the vintage horn. "Ring" is right and the low range will open ALL your chakras.

[chitownjazz]

I played my '33 New Aristocrat side by side with two new Allora (B&S) tenors that a friend had from WW/BW and her first comment when I played my horn after hers was,"It's so much louder." Same tired lungs, mpc and player. The size of the flare on the German horn was huge compared to the old Buescher, but the huge sound came from the vintage horn. "Ring" is right and the low range will open ALL your chakras.
Saintsday, what kind of mouthpiece? I assume NOT a vintage Buescher?

[JL]

Just out of interest here are 3 soundclips (mp3) of 3 different tenors
The Martin
Hanson
Conn 10M
(not in that order)

Now this is what I'm talking about....they all sounded great to me! And not that different. However, if I had to choose, I'd go for either horn "a" or horn "c." But man, I really can't tell from the sound clips. I bet I could easily pick one if I heard them live. So when are you going to tell us which horn is which on the clips?

Most of all, thanks for the cool lick, Pete! I play some very similar licks, but I really like this one.....it's in the bag of tricks for me now. It sounds kind of like a Horace Silver tune, Sister Sadie, or something like that. Anyway, it opens a lot of cool possibilities when you play around with it.

Going back to the Bueschers for a moment, I really don't find the keywork to be more difficult than my MKVI. It's a slightly different feel and maybe the VI keys have a bit more snap to them, but it just doesn't seem like a big deal. And hgiles, I hear what you're saying about the worn down pearls, etc. The odd thing is, the pearls on my '65 MK VI are much more worn down than those on my '39 &' 49 Aristocrats!

[Mike Ruhl]

Even though I love my Super 20 tenor, since you said you wanted a 'dark strong' tenor sound, I'll vote for a good Martin tenor. I played a nice The Martin years ago, and it was the only tenor I've ever played, besides by Super 20, that made me go "Wow!". Besides, you already have a Martin alto.

[Jerrystrick]

What the heck, sell the VII and buy three Aristocrats!

I have a 47 Big B Aristocrat and I have loved it from the moment I got it. I play mostly ballads and standards and find this instrument is beautiful for this type of music.

[usda]

Pete...I am impressed...due to downloading difficulties...ahem best not to go into...I couldn't tell what was what...but all sounded very good.

I sincerely don't know what one could or would ask more from a 'phone.' If the new one's don't sound that way...then that may be a reason to stay away from them.

No wonder the Conns and Martins...don't know of the Hanson...continue to be held in high regard.

Thanks.

P/s I imagine were I to burgle your house...I would just have to take 'em' all.

And from those sounds I would say the Beuscher tru tone, sounds sorta like the early Ben Webster or Hawkins...older and deeper I guess. Too bad...do you have one to play a clip on?

[JPSaxMan]

Just out of interest here are 3 soundclips (mp3) of 3 different tenors

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-a.m3u

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-b.m3u

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/sounds-sax/3-tenors-c.m3u

The Martin
Hanson
Conn 10M

(not in that order)

2 and 3 are a close tie...but but I liked the second one upon hearing it initially. While 1 wasn't bad, my ear just likes the second and third one...did you post the horns related to these clips yet Pete?

[Pete Thomas]

2 and 3 are a close tie...but but I liked the second one upon hearing it initially. While 1 wasn't bad, my ear just likes the second and third one...did you post the horns related to these clips yet Pete?

Not yet, these were the order of the clips

1. Conn 10M Naked Lady
2. Martin "The" Martin
3. Hanson ST-8

[JPSaxMan]

The Conn sounded like it could be thin at times, the Martin sounded lush and full, and while the Hanson resembled the Martin in many ways, it seemed that it could sound thin if pushed harder or used with a different setup. Nice test...thanks. 8-)

[JL]

The Conn sounded like it could be thin at times,.... 8-)

To me, the Conn (horn a) sounded the fattest, not thin at all. So there you have it with sound clips! I'd be willing to bet the differences would be more pronounced in a live setting. What's a Hanson? It sounded good too.

I really think this proves "it's the player," more than the horn. Pete is obviously a great player and I bet he'd sound good on any horn. But he would no doubt have a preference in how certain horns play and respond.

[Giganova]

Honestly, I think that the three sound clips are near-identical. Differences are more due to level and mic placement than anything else. Also, an MP3 is not suited anyway to study differences in sound, which appear to be small in this case.

I guess it boils down to: you will always sound like "you", regardless of the setup :D

[58tenor]

Red Herrings

[58tenor]

Oh, and nice sound too!

[saintsday]

So Pete, what is a Hanson ST-8?

[Pete Thomas]

Honestly, I think that the three sound clips are near-identical. Differences are more due to level and mic placement than anything else. Also, an MP3 is not suited anyway to study differences in sound, which appear to be small in this case.

I guess it boils down to: you will always sound like "you", regardless of the setup :D

I agree with that. There should be no differences due to mic placement, all three were the same mic (an Oktava ML53 ribbon mic) at about 3 feet, so any slight differences in playing position at this distance would be negligable. The mp3s are quite high bandwidth, good enough to tell the difference as far as most people's ears are concerned (trust me, I record saxophones for a living).

One of the three was about 1.5 dB louder on average (not peaks) and I adjusted the level of the mp3s for this so that there was a fair comparison of tone.

For me I look at two aspects of a saxophone:

1) How good it sounds to me and feels to play
2) How it records or sounds to others.

Both are important (maybe I'll start another discussion on this), ultimately it has to sound the best for a live audience on a gig or on a commercial recording, but I play my best if it sounds good to me and I get some inspiration from the sound I'm getting back, which is through my ears and probably though direct vibrations (mouthpiece - teeth - skull - brain)

To cut to the chase - yes they all sound so similar it doesn't really help you choose, apart from showing that none of them sound too much worse than the other.

I just use the one that feels best to me and there are other factors involved apart from the sound, e.g

The action
The intonation (very good on all three)
Consistency of tone - plays from bottom to top with no rogue notes.
Good altissimo

One day I'll get a few more horns and do a more thorough comparison. I wish I still had my MKVI (but only to do the comparison - it wasn't as good as any of theese three!)

[Pete Thomas]

So Pete, what is a Hanson ST-8?

It's their top of the range tenor. I believe it's made in Germany and Taiwan by an English company:

http://www.saxophonesdirect.com/

[Pinnman]

Looking at their web site, I get the impression that final assembly is in England. Bodies come from Germany and keywork from Taiwan.

[-TH]

I took a risk and sold my Mark VII tenor. Now I have the money to buy a new horn. My max budget is around 1700-1800 USD (+ have to pay taxes and VAT). I'm been drooling some vintage saxes from vintagesax, worldwidesax and junkdude. I want a horn with personality (which my Mark 7 lacked IMO and which my Martin Handcraft alto has). There are some nice Martin Committee II's, The Martins, Conn Chu-Berry for sale in that price range. I also found a nice Couf Superba 1 which needs to be overhauled (and which isn't so vintage). I'm sooo confused right now. I listened to some Charles Lloyd and his tone makes me want to buy a vintage Conn Chu-Berry, playing my alto wants me to buy a Martin tenor (Committee II or The Martin) etc. Can't decide!

-TH

[Pete Thomas]

I'm sooo confused right now. I listened to some Charles Lloyd and his tone makes me want to buy a vintage Conn Chu-Berry, playing my alto wants me to buy a Martin tenor (Committee II or The Martin) etc. Can't decide!


I'll decide for you then ;)

A Chu Berry may give you intonation problems with some mouthpieces. What you want is a "The Martin"

[jmartin]

I second that. Buy a martin. and specifically, buy a "The Martin Tenor". I recently tried several horns on a trial basis, Conn, Martin, Selmer, Yani, and Yamaha, in my search for a new sax. The Martin Tenor stood out for tone, and it plays like butter. and if you want a horn with personality, The Martin is more likely to reflect your personality without causing you intonation issues. It's also a sleeper as far as value goes.

Actually, the Selmer was my second choice. But I couldn't see spending $2500 more on a horn that I didn't like $2500 better.

[Bar-Ron]

I'm not sure I would part with a Selmer for a vintage, and I own all vintage horns.

The Martin tenor is lush but isn't as mouthpiece friendly as a selmer.
An SDA, what I have isn't as bright as a Selmer but again nice dark smooth sounding horn, not really for ripping jazz.
Friend has a Conn, Marching band sound to me, although he plays almost anything on it.
Kings, bright and powerful but I find they are uncomfortable to my hands.
Buescher, I love the sound, not as tight and focused as the french horns, But you have to like the clunky table keys. I don't mind them, but on my Bari from 30's, you need some pinky force, not like a Selmer.

All the Tenors, Vintage, have something that makes them lovable and something you must overlook or get used to as they are 50 year old designs or more.

If I were you I'd really be careful at selling off a modern Selmer for a relic without actually playing it for some time.

I have One Selmer, vintage, and I wouldn't bother with any other horn for alto. Martins are OK, Buescher's and others, but there is a good reason the Mk VI surpassed them in sales.

Like most of us, you will just have to start a collection and not part with anything. If a choice must be made, keep the Selmer, change the mouthpiece.

[WillieB]

Like most of us, you will just have to start a collection and not part with anything.

I couldn't agree more, though funds are not always there to keep collecting. The sounds of these vintage horns are superb. I have Aristocrats & Zephyrs and love they way they play, both altos & tenors.

As far as I am concerned, they can be undervalued for another 20 years compared to the current Big 4 - this way, I can keep collecting without thinning the current stock.

[JL]

Buescher, I love the sound, not as tight and focused as the french horns...

I'll speak up for the Bueschers, since I now own two of them in tenors. First, I'd say a "The Martin" would be an excellent choice--I tried one once and would have bought it if I didn't already have my Buescher. Your other excellent choice would be a Buescher Aristocrat, either a "series 1" (pre-war, with art deco engraving), or the later "Big B" and it's equivalent the "156" with script engraving (Big B & 156 are the same horn, different engraving).

I have a very good MK VI (but it's sitting in the closet since I got the Bueschers) and can make some comparisons. If you like the tight focused sound of the french saxes, then get the series 1 Aristocrat. It has that focus with a strong core, but IMO, sounds better than a MKVI with a slightly bigger sound and better intonation. The MK VI has a slight edge on the keywork, but I think you'd adjust very quickly.

The Big B/156 is more free-blowing, with a bold, spread sound and lots of power. The 156 is probably the best value, price-wise, all other things being equal. Hope this helps.

Oh, and if you don't want to worry about mpcs on these horns, including the Martin, just get an RPC. How's that for an opinionated proclamation!! Your other option is to muck about for years trying one mpc after another, lol.

[-TH]

JL,

It would be great if you could do comparison samples between your Aristocrat and MkVI! That would help me a lot because I've been also curious about the Bueschers and I haven't found any good samples of the 'Crat's sound.

-TH

[A Greene]

-TH -

I just bought a 1949 Aristocrat and if it ever gets here - I will certainly compare it to my 97,XXX VI tenor. I'm also very curious to hear the Buescher VS Selmer sound.

[rispoli]

I listened to some Charles Lloyd and his tone makes me want to buy a vintage Conn Chu-Berry,-TH

TH,
I also absolutely love the sound of Charles Lloyd and had for a couple of months a Conn Tranny which I played with an OL STM like he does. No matter what combination I tried the sound never was any close to his "velvety-Coltrane sound" as I would define it. Plus I hated so much the ergos of the Conn that I sold it soon without any regret (coming from a VII I don't think you'd adjust any easily to its ergonomics).

I later got an Aristocrat and I believe it will be easier to get a tone Lloyd-like with it rather than with that Conn Tranny.
The Aristocrat definitely has some "velvet-charachter" in its sound.
Also that is gone because I preferred by quite a bit the tone of my The Martin.
I now have also a Mark VI and I am still undecided which one has my favorite tone, while which one has the best keywork is a very easy call: the VI.

[JL]

JL,

It would be great if you could do comparison samples between your Aristocrat and MkVI! That would help me a lot because I've been also curious about the Bueschers and I haven't found any good samples of the 'Crat's sound.
-TH

I'd be glad to do this, but I don't have recording equip at home and don't know how to get a sound clip onto this site (I'm not very computer-literate). Also, I really don't think sound clips help much. At least to me the differences on sound clips are not as apparent as they are in a live setting. However, if you go to my band website at www.southcityblues.com you can listen to some sound clips there, where I'm playing the '49 Buescher 156. Check out "Mercy Mercy Mercy" or "Bad Case of Love" to get an idea of how it sounds. But these are not high quality recordings, so keep that in mind. Also, I'm using a Ponzol M2 mpc (this was before I got the RPC) and I think I sound better on the RPC.

Ike Quebec played an Aristocrat, so you could see how he sounded on one. But I gotta say, I think there may be more differences between players than between horns. A lot of it has to do with how the horn feels and sounds to YOU when you play it. Also, I definitely have found it easier to play the Buescher consistently in tune than my MK VI.

I should add that, at least for me, every horn takes some getting used to. I had to play the Buescher for a couple of weeks or longer before I really began to realize some of its potential.

[rispoli]

Ike Quebec played an Aristocrat, so you could see how he sounded on one. l.

Wow, I didn't know this. He had a fabulous tone, surely one of my favorites.
I absolutely love the extra dark tone he gets on "Nature boy" (cd "Heavy soul" which I highly recommend to anyone).
Thanks for the info, JL. By the way, your web site presently doesn't load on my PC.

[JL]

Thanks for the info, JL. By the way, your web site presently doesn't load on my PC.

Oh man, I put the wrong tag on there. It's www.southcityblues.com (not ".net").

I went back and edited it. Sorry about that, I told you I wasn't very computer-literate, lol.

[jez]

I had a 1927 chu up to this week which i had for about a year and i was playing a florida stm 7* and while most of the horn played mostly in tune bottom c was way off and top e&f were way flat and top b was sharp. I am using 2.5 javas. I have been told that it will be difficult to play in tune with this setup as when these horns were designed they were played with mpc around a 4 opening with harder reeds. I traded it for a Yani T992 which with the same mpc setup played with great intonation but the trade off was in the sound.

[Dave dix]

Jez seems like you need a bit of key heights done. Cork the Bb bis key down a bit, open the low B+Bb and try top F with aux front F and for top E use the top front F fingering and close the G key
My chu seems to play in tune reasonably well but i use either a berg 100/1 or my lawton 7b
Dave

[saintsday]

-TH,
Go to Bootman's website. He has lots of clips of Aristos.
www.bootmanmusic.com

[Jolle]

I agree with 58tenor : do NOT buy a vintage sax you didn't play on. A lot of them have the tendency to be difficult in the intonation. Say it different : some notes are just plain out of tune, and demand pretty hard work to get them right. Another thing is the keywork : forget about ergonomics.

I play a vintage, or say it different, a real old-timer (1908). I bought it because I just love the sound of it, and I admit, I also fell for the looks. But I tried a lot of saxes before I knew that this was the one. In the end, you need a feeling for the instrument, and everybody has a different feeling, so everybody needs a different instrument.

If you really want to buy one, try to take a holiday in Germany or the Netherlands, and check out second-hand shops or advertisements on the internet. You can try a lot of saxes in a week :-)

Good luck!

[JL]

I agree with 58tenor : do NOT buy a vintage sax you didn't play on. A lot of them have the tendency to be difficult in the intonation. Say it different : some notes are just plain out of tune, and demand pretty hard work to get them right. Good luck!

This is true in some cases, but not all. The Buescher horns of the '30s and '40s probably have the best intonation you'll find on a sax. I do agree with trying before buying. All the reputable vintage dealers will allow you a trial period.

[saintsday]

Right on JL. I have a couple of Bueschers that blow my teacher's beautiful MK VI out of the water for intonation. Now if I could just sound like he does on any horn he plays...

[CK]

FWIW, my 1942 King Zephyr Special tenor has better intonation and more even volume across its range than my Buffet Superdynaction tenor with the same mouthpieces. Very different tonal concept and ergonomics.