Taiwanese produced bass - why not? [Archive]

okami

02-16-2006, 04:03 PM

Hello everyone!

I've got an old Triebert bass-saxophone, but I am not satisfied with it's intonation, playing comfort and range. But this model was the only one who was affordable for me. I would like to buy a new bass saxophone, but the only new ones available are Keilwerth, Selmer and Eppelsheim, which are about 12.000 $. I've got an excellent Cannonball Soprano, which was about 1500$ cheaper than other professional sopranos and I like it very much. Considering this, I wonder: Why don't they produce bass-saxophones in Taiwan? It would be wonderful to own an affordable bass-sax with good intonation and handling like the Antigua and Cannonball Sopranos. Why are the currently available basses so expensive? I doubt that the material is 2 times as expensive as the bariton material. I think that they are so expensive, because there is no mass production, they are produced in Europe and/or they are made by only one worker. But I think there will be demand for bass saxophones in the price range between 5000 to 6500 $. Don't you think so? Is there a taiwanese company which is interested in producing bass saxophones?

Thank you, Benny

cleger

02-16-2006, 04:14 PM

Simple economics, the demand is small so there is little money to be made by increasing supply. I'm sure that Selmer and Eppelsheim don't make much profit from their basses but they are in the business at a different end of the market than the Taiwanese producers would be. The Taiwanese make profits by dealing in volume, you aren't going to sell volume if you are producing bass saxes.

okami

02-16-2006, 04:18 PM

OK, this is a reason. but they are producing those sopranino devils, too. and I don't think the demand for them is much higher than that for the basses.

Merlin

02-16-2006, 04:29 PM

Taiwanese basses are on the way. I've seen some companies with prototypes in the works.

okami

02-16-2006, 04:33 PM

Taiwanese basses are on the way. I've seen some companies with prototypes in the works.

Absolutely great! :D Which companys want to produce them? Where did you see them? Did they say anything about the price and the release date?

JMac

02-16-2006, 04:48 PM

Taiwanese basses are on the way. I've seen some companies with prototypes in the works.Great - just when I think I am in GAS remission! Still kicking myself for not buying an un-named Canadian's Bass through SOTW ;) .

Martin Williams

02-16-2006, 07:20 PM

Really Merlin!! Thats kinda cool, if they dont turn out to be total Taiwan crap, Id like to at least try one. I was able to play a buescher Bass as a high school senior, and a selmer bass here at OSU, I liked the Buescher better though, I could play it comfortably with a harness standing, but the selmer was just unweildly, and uncomfortable to play if it wasnt on a stand. Even then though, it wasnt much fun.

cleger

02-16-2006, 07:22 PM

OK, this is a reason. but they are producing those sopranino devils, too. and I don't think the demand for them is much higher than that for the basses.

Oh well, I guess this thread shows how little I know :D

SAXISMYAXE

02-16-2006, 07:23 PM

Any method of producing a more affordable and acceptable Bass Sax I'm all for! If this is truly in the pipeline from Taiwan, I'll buy one.
I have a Conn Bass stencil, but wouldn't mind having a bass with a more modern keywork system without cashing in the life savings to do so.

Hurling Frootmig

02-16-2006, 08:27 PM

I'd love a bass sax. I have a lead on one but my wife would kill me spending that kind of money!

TenTenTooter

03-17-2006, 04:48 PM

"Get the best... get a Mason!!!!!!!!!!"

http://cgi.ebay.com/BASS-saxophone-sax-saxaphone-no-reserve_W0QQitemZ7398852249QQcategoryZ16233QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

There you go, still not exactly affordable though.

Nguyen

04-05-2006, 05:59 PM

OMG did you hear those sound samples? Absolutely hilarious!

http://barrysacks2.com/song04b.mp3

Hmm, on closer look it turns out this is the one behind them. Not a bad body of work as a whole, but that particular one... "The Funky Contrabass Saxophone", hmm...

http://barrysacks3.com/mysolo.htm

saxtek

04-06-2006, 06:14 AM

One sound clip is a keilwerth bass sax, NOT the instrument for sale in the auction. The second sound clip is even worse - there isn't even a bass saxophone in the clip - The low saxophone is an Orsi contrabass.

The photos show a photo of a Selmer bass saxophone taken from the Selmer website with "Mason Pro" superimposed on the bell of the Saxophone - although the logo is not aligned properly.

Other photos show a 1920s Buescher bass saxophone. No photos or recordings in these auctions provide any information about the actual instrument being offered for auction. If this horn does indeed exist, there should be at least a prototype available for a photograph. Now is not the time to spend $10,000 blindly on this bass sax.

Don't take my word for it. Just chop everything off the link to the sound clips after ".com" to see the original source of the recordings, and check out the horns used in the sound clips.

Bar-Ron

12-16-2006, 01:53 AM

IWW is marketing a Bass sax from Taiwan, sound clips probably don't do it justice. Only the Keilwerth and Selmer have the modern, tight lever action, so far the Taiwan ones are reminiscent of Buescher/Conn style pinkie tables. Nice larger G# table than the earlier ones that had a round pearl.
I hope they make a market dent, no matter what extraordinary claims the sellers claim, as they are of course, extraordinary instruments anyway.

Dave Dolson

01-22-2007, 06:23 PM

I saw two of the new International Woodwinds bass saxes at the NAMM Show last Saturday. I did not touch them but the sales rep played one of them for me. Wow!!

First of all, the horn had that old-tyme booming sound down low, reminiscent of Adrian Rollini and Joe Rushton's recordings (and the guy who played with Bix). This was a sound that I recall from the Bueschers and Conns (from players who played them in bands where I was playing). Tons of resonance down low. The scale sounded accurate.

Secondly, the bell keys were split (one on each side) like all of the saxophones from the 1920's.

The horns were lacquered brass and appeared to be well made. The price was somewhere around $8K. The pamphlet which I picked up said $9800.00. I sure got the drools over those, but realism soon brought me back. I have no where to put one of these monsters! Gorgeous instruments, though. DAVE

Randall

01-22-2007, 06:57 PM

Merlin, what companies from Taiwan are working on a bass?

legato

01-23-2007, 01:43 AM

A few months ago there was a rumor about a bass sax being made in Brazil. What came of that?

Brian

Bar-Ron

01-25-2007, 05:00 AM

A few months ago there was a rumor about a bass sax being made in Brazil. What came of that?

Brian

Actlly I don't think its a rumor, as I have seen pix.
Some one on Bass sax coop was heading down to Brazil and was going to try and look up the company. The Brazilian Bass goes down to low A and maybe G I have heard.

Martin Williams

01-25-2007, 05:30 AM

Bar-ron -

Taht would be an intresting beast! let us know what they come up with!

Bar-Ron

01-25-2007, 05:46 AM

Bar-ron -

Taht would be an intresting beast! let us know what they come up with!

I'll seeif i can find the pix.

Bar-Ron

01-25-2007, 05:55 AM

I don't know if I saved them but the companies were; Stainer and Lopez I believe, Two different companies making them.

Bar-Ron

01-25-2007, 07:49 AM

here is the link to lopez instruments

http://www.lopesinstrumentos.hpgvip.ig.com.br/index_fotos.htm

acti0n_jacks0n

01-28-2007, 06:04 AM

Whoa. WHOA. That is amazing!

TetsuoK

02-20-2007, 09:35 PM

God this is a great thread. I'm a little scared of what might come out of taiwan at first, but it would be great to see a revival of corner saxophone orchestras in possible result.

Bar-Ron

02-24-2007, 02:14 PM

Any one who has gone to Disney can catch strolling sax quartet's with bass saxes. They sound great.
I got the bug for a Bass after I heard how easily they add dimension to a sax ensemble and especially out side. The bari just can't fill the low notes like a tuba, but a Bass sax sure can.

As much as I like Brass quintets for German ooompah music, I still lean toward the sax ensemble for its texture and versatility. We can only hope the Taiwan economy can create a world wide glut of well made decent sounding copies of what used to be horns only available for too much money.

The sax is back
would be a great slogan

for those of us sick of Rap Crap and bottled hollywood glamor produced layered music from synthesizers and over produced children's limericks that need vulgarity and violence in the lyrics to act all grown up, let us hope saxes become more affordable throughout the line and the complex sounds of talented young musicians get exposed to its full potential. With a sax in their mouth perhaps we won't have to listen to 18 year olds spewing hate at a world they barely know and surely have never given out enough or lost enough to even understand.

Teenage angst sells, what can one say.

Give me saxophones moaning out the expression of the experienced soul any day.

TetsuoK

02-26-2007, 11:36 PM

Teenage angst sells, but unfortunately, I don't realistically see many teenagers interested in hearing a saxophone. "Band Geeks" are still ridiculed in highschool, unless their close friends are in it, and even then they are ridiculed. Clothes define the music more than music defines the clothes, and the best clothes are what drive the interest of what sells. No matter what age you are, as soon as you reach that age that clothes let you stop wearing uniforms and start wearing what you want - Sex sells. And also unfortunately, kids desire too much of a quick fix in those teenage years, and have very little patience for anything new.

Now, however, There was that 3rd wave ska period that everyone LIKED horn lines, but that was very very short lived.

Here's to hoping, though.

Martin Williams

02-27-2007, 12:55 AM

Now, however, There was that 3rd wave ska period that everyone LIKED horn lines, but that was very very short lived.

Im still riding the 4th wave, so to speak. pocketed into same areas you can find a nice ska scene, but it soesnt really bills these days, the intrest isnt huge. Although, more people than you realize like the swing revival style. Lots of great groups and playing being done here in that genre

TetsuoK

02-28-2007, 01:01 AM

I often bring up a band called "the debonaires" on this message board. ( http://www.myspace.com/thedebonaires ) an amazing co-op of guys who met in highschool under the idea they would be a traditional ska band, and then managed to infuse their own rockabilly tribute into what is essentially a soul, funk, and reggae-ska style JAZZ. They are quite simply the best little-known band featuring a horn line to come out of southern california in the last 10 years, that have been around for 11 years.

For those who love this kind of music, no one doesn't like the debonaires. A band from argentina, known as the skafres, has the same following from southern california latinos and chicanos.

I'm a member of a half-mambo, merengue, chachaska (known as "eskañol") band, and we are lucky with the devout following that we have.

MTV will probably never again jump into horn line bands. The sound requires way too much sophistication of one's ear and patience, and that his been diluted by synthesizers and effects pedals, and far too much post production. Not to say that I don't really enjoy listening to bands like Thirty Seconds to Mars, The Killers, or Bloc Party, but its just not going to go into that renaissance that you (and i know many others) seem to desire.

At this point, BETJ (BET Jams) has the best foundation in exposing little known jazz artists during their late night and early morning shows. I've seen more sax players like frank morgan who came about during the bird era and still continue to fascinate audiences on BETJ than I have ever seen on PBS stations.

VH1 COULD do it, but VH1 seems to only focus on catering to the "used-tos." The people who used to watch MTV and wear 80s shirts and follow fads, and then invite has-beens to talk about the trends of that era.

Lucky for me, KJAZ is broadcast at the University of Redlands, as well as in Long Beach, and most of Southern California can tune into it, and the late night KUCR ska/Reggae/Mento music. Here's hoping that one day KJAZ can have the funding to support a TELEVISION jazz station.

Honestly, I would love to play Rock n' Roll sax riffs, and see kids trying to imitate other famous players, but how many kids do you know who even watch movies like "the blues brothers" who aren't already ostracized from their peers for being old fashioned?

Here's to hoping.

bassclar

04-01-2007, 06:01 PM

Any one who has gone to Disney can catch strolling sax quartet's with bass saxes. They sound great.

I believe that both the Orlando and Anaheim sax quartets have bass saxes. In Orlando there is also a bass in the Grand Floridian hotel. When the band isn't playing it just sits there (sans neck and mouthpiece). When the band is playing they tend not to actually play the bass sax unless you ask.

btw, I just blogged (http://bitguru.wordpress.com/2007/04/01/disney-world-sax-quartet/) about this.

leogigeck

04-02-2007, 03:59 PM

Hello Guys,

I'm from Brazil and played some of those horns you're interested of.

I posted some photos at ContraBass or lowest forum... Please take a look.
(http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1811)

Now in Brazil we have 3 saxophone makers, Soprano Musical Instruments, Stainer (they also have contrabass) and Lopes Musical Instruments.

They all are in São Paulo - Brazil and I can get some pics/information from Sopranos's bass, they've began a long time ago copying a Buescher bass. Now it's improved and you can chose with low G, low A and if I think they have a model with low Bb bass.
I have just one picture from soprano bass, so there it goes...

Sorry my English...

TetsuoK

04-02-2007, 06:06 PM

Low G?:twisted: :!:

leogigeck

04-02-2007, 06:28 PM

Ya.. I think he made two with low G... I didn't play this model, but I remember the monster.

IMHO... LOW A is the limit, if you need more... change it for a contrabass.

legato

04-02-2007, 09:56 PM

leogigeck,

What about Weril? They claim to be a Brazilian instrument maker. Try www.weril.com.br

Brian

bassclar

04-03-2007, 01:29 AM

Now in Brazil we have 3 saxophone makers, Soprano Musical Instruments, Stainer (they also have contrabass) and Lopes Musical Instruments.

So half the bass models in the world are made in São Paulo? (the others: Keilworth, Selmer, Eppelsheim.) (Oh, and I guess Orsi.)

Cool, but why? Are there a lot players performing on bass in Brazil? If so, maybe I should head there for vacation...

leogigeck

04-03-2007, 12:45 PM

leogigeck,

What about Weril? They claim to be a Brazilian instrument maker. Try www.weril.com.br

Brian

Hey Brian, you can call me Léo...

Weril makes just alto, baritone, soprano and tenor saxophones. They have a nice model now, Supremo. It sounds like a Yamaha 62.

All brazilian saxophone makers aren't a huge factory, they started with a repair shop and after start making saxophones... Except Weril.

leogigeck

04-03-2007, 12:58 PM

So half the bass models in the world are made in São Paulo? (the others: Keilworth, Selmer, Eppelsheim.) (Oh, and I guess Orsi.)

Cool, but why? Are there a lot players performing on bass in Brazil? If so, maybe I should head there for vacation...

I don't know if here in São Paulo we have half of the production, but...

I know that there are a lot of Protestant Church using contrabass and bass saxophone to replace tuba.
Jazz Gigs and big bands don't use these horns, yet. There are just a few bands using them...

If you wanna pass by São Paulo on vacation, let me know and I arrange a test drive is these beasts, lol...

leogigeck

04-03-2007, 06:24 PM

see this pic, I think you'll understand why there are so many bass makers in Brazil... I wasn't there but it's pretty impressive...

Also... on this pic there is a low G baritone... completely modified... my friend got this photo and sent to me, they were in São Paulo.

SOTSDO

04-03-2007, 07:33 PM

Assembling large numbers of any instrument seems to be a human trait. Hell, I've even been part of a six hundred saxophone mob on one occasion. 'Twas entertaining enough at the time, although some of us wondered after trekking back to our cases in the "assembly area" just how worth-while it was in the first place.

For some specialized applications (sax group at Disney, which is a first class show, by the way) or authentic period music from the 1900-1930 period, they have a place. Even for some jazz improv stuff, they have a place. But, for the rest of the world, they are nothing more than a gimmick, and a very expensive and hard to store and transport gimmick at that.

Still, I have always wished that I had bought the one I had on "rent to buy" some thirty years ago...

Bar-Ron

04-07-2007, 06:24 AM

Not just human animals get together and blow their horns in group extravaganza's frequently.......Flocks of Geese come to mind.

Once an animal can make a sound he seems to desire to make it in larger quantity for no other reason but that more has got to be better!!!

Lions would even do it if their instinct to eat each other wasn't so over powering, sort of like jazz soloists that play at each other instead of with each other hogging every moment they can from the other musicians devouring the time slot or is that just the ones from Berkley.....

princeganon

04-07-2007, 06:52 AM

OK, this is a reason. but they are producing those sopranino devils, too. and I don't think the demand for them is much higher than that for the basses.

i dunno about that. sure, probably more people would like to have a bass, but a heckuva lot more people can afford a nino. I'd love to have a bass, much more than a nino. but my next purchase will be a nino, since it's in the realm of possibility. even if taiwanese manufacturers could make the cost much lower than other basses, it would probably still be very expensive compared to a 600 dollar nino.

ianhart

04-08-2007, 05:48 AM

There is an IW bass on ebay right now, if anyone is interested, looks to be a Taiwanese bass, as mentioned earlier by Bar-Ron and Dave Dolson. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130079980864&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=130000457273&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

Dave Dolson

04-08-2007, 05:48 PM

Ian: That sure looks like one of the two I saw at NAMM in January . . . even the group-horn photo seems to have been taken at NAMM (or a similar trade show). Notice the split bell-pads. DAVE

leogigeck

04-17-2007, 04:02 PM

Assembling large numbers of any instrument seems to be a human trait. Hell, I've even been part of a six hundred saxophone mob on one occasion. 'Twas entertaining enough at the time, although some of us wondered after trekking back to our cases in the "assembly area" just how worth-while it was in the first place.

For some specialized applications (sax group at Disney, which is a first class show, by the way) or authentic period music from the 1900-1930 period, they have a place. Even for some jazz improv stuff, they have a place. But, for the rest of the world, they are nothing more than a gimmick, and a very expensive and hard to store and transport gimmick at that.

Once I played alto sax among 3 hundred other saxophones. I know what you mean...

I think bass sax is becoming popular again, for Jazz combos and protestant churchs. Like a Phoenix, arising from ashes. :D

This is what's happening, well, this is what I feel...

okami

04-30-2007, 11:07 PM

Bar-Ron

05-01-2007, 12:06 AM

Is this IW Bass Saxophone worth the money? It is obvious to me that such an instrument can't be as good as an intrument which sells for 13.000 $, but is the intonation and the keywork so good that you can easily work with it?

Is the one for $13,000 worth that much is the question.

The economic differences of Taiwan and China make the price difference partly the difference, whether the skill to make them well is a different issue and that is where they are getting closer every year.

I have heard good things about the IW Bass.
Its a copy of a Buescher and plays and feels like a Buescher. It has the same intonation querks as any big bore Bass, but any sax player with an ear and a talent for "Getting used to a Bass" can handle it.

The Selmer for about $14,000 sounds like a big baritone and isn't worth $$$ unless you like a prissy tight confined low note with little ability to fill a room and punches a note out rather thinly in comparison to every other Bass on the Market.

From what I have heard it is pretty well made and plays as well as a Vintage Bass. The IW is about $7500 at times when they do promotions and Mr Lee Mason has them as well and can supply a hard case too.

Personally I have a Vintage Conn, but would consider the IW if I were looking just for the fact that they copied an American legend.

It's nearly 1/2 the`price and in no way half the value.
It is worth a look for sure.

Rick Adams

05-01-2007, 01:55 AM

I think I can get a bass sax from China that would cost around $4,500 to $5,000 including shipping to the USA. The only thing is that I have not bought anything from this particular contact. If anyone's interested then PM me and I'll look into it in more depth for you.

mountainman

05-10-2007, 03:26 PM

Actlly I don't think its a rumor, as I have seen pix.
Some one on Bass sax coop was heading down to Brazil and was going to try and look up the company. The Brazilian Bass goes down to low A and maybe G I have heard.

Did this ever happen and what were the results?

Bar-Ron

05-11-2007, 03:26 AM

yes, I believe the man in question bought one.

leogigeck

10-04-2007, 05:54 PM

My friend forwarded this photos this morning.

The price is about USD 8.000. The name is Galassine Super Bass III.
I don't know the maker in person...

Also, there are this two links below.

http://www.zancgeck.com.br/index.php?pg=detalhes&prd=31
http://www.zancgeck.com.br/index.php?pg=detalhes&prd=37

The Roc

12-05-2007, 12:55 AM

bari_sax_diva

12-12-2007, 10:12 AM

I've played the IW bass sax. Um... nice that there's an affordable bass being made. The keywork on this one, however, included a right-hand reach that was so long as to be virtually unworkable for me. Given that my thumb-to-pinky span is almost 8 1/2 inches, you're gonna need some pretty big hands to play this horn much. The Keilwerth I tried at Roberto's a couple years ago didn't give me the same problem, nor does a friend's Conn.

I only had my Berg bari MP with me, so I probably couldn't give the best report on the sound of this horn. Perhaps someone else who's tried one would like to weigh in?

TenTenTooter

12-13-2007, 06:02 AM

I've played one, but like you I couldn't get much past the ergo's to actually play the darn thing.

Joeybsmooth1

12-21-2007, 05:40 PM

Diva when you say "affordable bass" what do you mean. I would love so much to get one of these things . Because when you look at it , the Bari is not that low. I want to be low , like R-Kelly Low.

bari_sax_diva

12-21-2007, 06:09 PM

Diva when you say "affordable bass" what do you mean.

I don't work for the company and don't keep track of their prices. I'd check their website (http://www.internationalwoodwind.com/) for more info.

Joeybsmooth1

12-22-2007, 12:20 AM

Cool

DukeCity

12-22-2007, 01:18 AM

I've played the IW bass sax...The keywork on this one, however, included a right-hand reach that was so long as to be virtually unworkable for me...The Keilwerth I tried at Roberto's a couple years ago didn't give me the same problem, nor does a friend's Conn.

Looks like IW has a modern bass (http://cgi.ebay.com/IW-661-Bass-Saxophone-Keyed-to-high-F-Bass-Sax_W0QQitemZ370006196154QQihZ024QQcategoryZ16233Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638 .m118) available now. I'm not familiar enough to know whether it's based on a Keilwerth or Selmer. Also, a little more expensive than their earlier model.

TenTenTooter

12-22-2007, 07:13 AM

Looks like the Selmer to me.

saxtek

12-22-2007, 07:19 AM

I heard it is a Selmer clone. Has anybody played one?

Starving bass sax player video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh3-XDAwkZg

My myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis

SearjeantSax

04-20-2008, 02:32 PM

whats going on here?
a Conn bass for $900??

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/11027834/Bass_Saxophone.html

Johnmcd

07-15-2008, 09:57 AM

Gear4Music are selling a low Bb Bass sax modelled on the Conn/Buescher type. It's about £2,600 ($5,500). I don't know how it plays, but they offer a no questions asked, 14 day refund if you don't want to keep it. All I can say is that their Tenor Sax (which costs about £200/$400) is a respectably solidly built instrument, heavy (ie. not flimsy) with good solid keywork that would be frankly very difficult to bend, and pretty decently in tune with itself. I think the sop-bari models that they make are Yani copies.
I'd say this bass is worth a go, although if you're not in the UK and did want to send it back for refund you'd lose out on the shipping costs.

http://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind_Instruments/Saxophone/Bass_Saxophone_by_Gear4music_Gold.html

Best wishes,

John.

cmelodysax

07-15-2008, 03:55 PM

John - I'm truly tempted - especially by the fact that it's in UK prices, and in the UK already - no dreaded import /shipping problems. They're only in York, and even provide a map !

I just love a couple of quotes on their website, specifically the bass sax page you provided the link to-

a) This instrument is ideal for beginners to advancing players alike. (and)
b) This sax features an innovative built-in instrument stand, which is particularly useful for younger or smaller players.

I suppose it'd make a change from starting kids on alto sax, or curved soprano... :D

acti0n_jacks0n

07-15-2008, 11:04 PM