From alto to tenor

[ppamhk]

Why so many alto players later change to play tenor? I doubt its because tenor is easier to play.

Someone describes that alto sounds like a young lady, but tenor sounds like a mature and charming woman.

Do you really think tenor is more charming than alto? Why would or wouldn't you change from alto to tenor?:)

[jimmitch]

I think when you start out playing alto like I did you wonder why should I play tenor when you love alto so much Then a mark VI tenor comes along and you start playing tenor. Now I think playing tenor has help my alto sound so much that I wish I had started playing tenor a lot sooner. That said I'm glad I spent a lot of time on alto I think it help me pick up tenor faster. As far as the sound of them I love them both.

[Rex]

I think the tenor sound is "larger", more flexible and complex than the alto's. Being a "larger" person also, the feel is completely different for me. The tenor really still is the iconic Jazz (all styles, real and imagined) instrument too, despite recent challenges to the throne from the "golden clarinet". But -- almost all beginners, especially as children, start out on alto. At least some have to change to tenor or we wouldn't have any tenor players.

[Grumps]

Yeah, when kids start out, they don't want to choose the heaviest horn. Some stick with alto because the band parts are more interesting, but if you get the urge to play rock and roll and/or modern music, there's more opportunity for tenor; in my opinion at least.

[Dave dix]

One band+1 sax usually want a tenor or a doubler player rather then just an alto
Dave

[SilverNeck20]

One band+1 sax usually want a tenor or a doubler player rather then just an alto
Dave

Yeah, tenor is usually favored over alto. I rarely take mine on gigs anymore.

[TheChristianSax]

Well, I actually went the other way. I started on tenor in junior high, and played it through high school. I stopped sax for a long time and picked it up about 8 years ago and have been serious since then. But, along the way I picked up an alto, which was foreign to me at the time. I now think that I have found my sound. I occasionally play tenor and soprano, but my heart and sound seems to be on alto. I really don't why this happened, but it did.

[jsjazz]

Then you put on some Phil Woods and you say, "Oh, now I know why I love alto so much"!

[Rex]

Of course you can play both -- or all 4 (5? 6?) -- many do. But for want of time and money...

[ub]

For me, it is a matter of playing both and enjoying each sound. Like most, I started on Alto and stayed there for some 10 years before beginning to play Tenor also. The possibilities of playing style differences is, for me at least, something that I think is just really a good thing.

[ppamhk]

Like most of you, I start with small instrument - alto. Is it advisable to be an experienced alto player before moving onto tenor? Any trouble to learn both alto and tenor at the same time. I encounter a very attrative offer to buy a vintage tenor that's why I ask.

[renegade]

I have been playing the alto for about 3 years and sometimes I thought of switching to tenor. I don't know if I should use the word "resist" but it seems that there is an inner resistance on my person to leave the alto at this point. I want to be a good alto player first before venturing into a "different" instrument.

[saintsday]

Try the tenor and if you love it and can afford it, get it. I played tenor from grade school through high school and wasn't interested enough in my son's alto when he started playing to even resume playing. It took an alto at an "instrument petting zoo" years later to re-spark my saxmania. It seems to me that switching back and forth as I do now helps me with both. Whatever your choice, play, play, play.

[JPSaxMan]

I love both equally (listen to the gasps on that one). I started out on alto and now have been going at it for seven years. Four years after I started, I picked up a tenor for the first time and fell in love. Did I disown alto? Nope, I actually just bought (traded, whatever) my first metal alto piece. Now I wanna play the alto more than tenor, but I agree that the tenor is slightly more flexible and less obnoxious than alto. But there's something about alto that cannot be found in tenor...what I don't know, but the same thing applies to the bari sax (which I've been doing for four years now as well) and I'm sure there's the same thing in the soprano sax. Keep blowin ya'll! 8-)

[altoist]

I think that the average tenor sound is more pleasing to more ears than
the average alto sound. There's also some element of fashion in that
more people start on alto and thus want to "graduate" to the larger horn.

I prefer alto, because of certain players with distinctive alto sounds, but
I love tenor too. What is interesting is that it seems most pro alto players
these days seem to double on soprano, which is what tenor players double
on. Makes sense if you read sheet music transposed for Bb, but then I
wonder why more alto players don't pick up bari.

[JPSaxMan]

One thing I forgot to mention is that my band director happens to think that I evolved into a better tenor player than alto player. So that could mean something?

And you make a good point altoist...maybe the altos are afraid of the roaring bari? :lol:

[altoist]

And you make a good point altoist...maybe the altos are afraid of the roaring bari? :lol:

I have altos (of course!) and a tenor, and as soon as I'm sure my wife won't
kill me, I'm getting a bari!

Soprano makes more sense since it's easier to lug around when travelling,
but I tried a bari in a store once (a vintage Martin) and I almost bought
it right there. I felt I could have blown down the walls with that baby.

I guess that in the end, people who love the sax want to have all four.
But, with a few exceptions, the players I like the most have focused on
one horn. I have a few alto albums of recent times (Herb Geller, Mike Smith,
Jon Gordon, Lee Konitz) where the altoist picks up a soprano, whereas in
the old days (Sonny Stitt, Eric Kloss) it would be a tenor.

John Handy has a somewhat recent half tenor album

[TheChristianSax]

I have altos (of course!) and a tenor, and as soon as I'm sure my wife won't
kill me, I'm getting a bari!

Hmmm, I have that same problem!!

[saintsday]

A new wife is much easier to find than a great horn... go for it.

[Saxn]

Ahhh... spoken like a truly happy divorcee. ;)

[jacobeid]

I've been playing alto for about 5 years now. I jumped way to early and bought a soprano after 2 years of playing alto. I wish I would have waited until I had been playing for 3 or 4 because I wasn't ready and I'm still correcting things I've done with my soprano for so long. Sometime this year (hopefully soon) I'm getting a tenor. I am obsessed with sax and play about 3-5 hours a day. More during marching band season (about 6-8 hours a day). I think I'm ready for tenor.

[JJPerain]

I just started playing my tenor again and was suprised to see how easy it was to blow vs. my alto. I need to get some mouthpiece issues straightened out but my basic question is: I need something on my alto that is more free blowing. I thought by going to a wider tip opening, that translated to more free blowing. I am using a Selmer C** mouthpiece now on alto and I get a nice sound but I want something with less resistance. Which direction should I go in?

[MSH4]

I just thought I'd comment how surprising it is that you are having the exact opposite problem I am having. I find playing alto a breeze, but the tenor seems enormously difficult.

You are probably right that the amount of resistance is the issue. I believe on alto, the Selmer C** has a rather small tip opening compared to what I am used to playing (Meyer 6 through 8). And if you are used to playing with less resistance, going to a wider tip opening could solve your problem. You might also consider a larger chamber --- I'm not sure how the Selmer C** compares in terms of the size of the chamber, but I do know that has a lot to do with the resistance.

On alto, I think a wider tip opening generally makes it easier to play higher notes, and the tone is fuller and more pleasing. But the larger tip opening requires more work by the facial muscles, particularly to play quieter passages. I recently switched back down to a smaller tip opening because I was getting too worn out trying to control the larger tip opening --- a sacrifice in sound quality, but I just couldn't play very long on the large tip opening without feeling numb around the mouth.

I think I have the opposite challenge in trying to play tenor --- I need more resistance to match what I am used to on the alto. So I am experimenting with mouthpieces as well.

[MSH4]

I've been playing alto for about 5 years now. I jumped way to early and bought a soprano after 2 years of playing alto. I wish I would have waited until I had been playing for 3 or 4 because I wasn't ready and I'm still correcting things I've done with my soprano for so long.
I was curious why you thought playing the soprano hurt you --- what exactly it made you do wrong. I just bought a soprano and a tenor for the first time(after playing alto for 4 years) --- so I just wondered what I should watch out for. My initial impression is that the soprano is pretty easy --- but I can barely play the tenor at all.

[saintsday]

JJ-If you want less resistance, you want a smaller, not a larger chamber. Look at a vintage Buescher piece (huge chamber) and then try playing it. You'll think that someone left a sock in it. Part of that is no baffle and a small opening, but large chamber does not equal free blowing.
Find a dealer near you and spend some time trying mpcs. If there is nobody close, what a great excuse for a weekend road trip!
Good luck.

[MSH4]

JJ-If you want less resistance, you want a smaller, not a larger chamber.
Saintsday --- What you say doesn't make any sense, although it could be that we are simply misunderstanding each other's terminology. What I was saying is that, all other things being equal (same tip opening, facing length, baffle, etc.), if the chamber is larger, it is easier to send air through that chamber. That's basic physics... there is no denying it. Now a smaller chamber will make the air move stronger through the instrument (after the air has passed through the chamber) --- creating greater loudness, higher harmonics, etc. So it may be true that for the same level of loudness, you might be able to blow easier through the smaller chambered mouthpiece. But that doesn't mean the smaller chamber offers less resistance.

[martysax]

Alto to Tenor: progression, transgression, regression, enhancement, escape, retreat, ascend, reach out, reach back,.......

I actually had started playing flute at 6, then picked up alto at ~12. That was a distinct enough change in voice and timbre to make me approach each differently. A few years later, wanting to take the solo Tenor chair in the HS Jazz Band, I bought my beloved Super 20.

Through grade-junior-high school the Alto and Tenor sax band parts were either playing harmonies with each other, especially the Soli sections, or split up with altos playing along with clarinets and tenors playing with baritones and trombones.

I've always treated each of my doubles as unique voices, otherwise I wouldn't have doubles. I like switching, it opens up my head and makes me concentrate on fundamentals.

[BariSkaJazz]

Saintsday --- What you say doesn't make any sense, although it could be that we are simply misunderstanding each other's terminology. What I was saying is that, all other things being equal (same tip opening, facing length, baffle, etc.), if the chamber is larger, it is easier to send air through that chamber. That's basic physics... there is no denying it. Now a smaller chamber will make the air move stronger through the instrument (after the air has passed through the chamber) --- creating greater loudness, higher harmonics, etc. So it may be true that for the same level of loudness, you might be able to blow easier through the smaller chambered mouthpiece. But that doesn't mean the smaller chamber offers less resistance.

I'm sorry MSH4, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Its the air speed that dictates how much resistance you feel, not the volume of the container(with said container being the chamber of the mouthpiece). A smaller chamber will have a faster air speed which means the player will feel less resistance.

Saintsday, I have the said vintage buescher piece, and man you are right it does feel like there is a sock stuck down there. Reed wise I started with 2 1/2's on my buesher bari piece and now 3 months later I'm playing 4's, and I still need to go harder. Talk about a stuffy piece!

[JPSaxMan]

Saintsday, I have the said vintage buescher piece, and man you are right it does feel like there is a sock stuck down there. Reed wise I started with 2 1/2's on my buesher bari piece and now 3 months later I'm playing 4's, and I still need to go harder. Talk about a stuffy piece!

Sounds like you need a whole new mouthpiece :lol:

[Bernards20040]

Martsax
Have you upset your wife ?:shock:

[saintsday]

BariSkaJazz- But isn't that a sweet sound if you are willing to work at it? I've heard it explained that when your airstream hits that big chamber with no baffle to speed it up, you feel the resistance. For the fans of the dark side, it works.

[wimpynet]

Hi first of all, sorry for my english, in fact i speak spanish.
Im newby on sax world, but im intersting to buy a sax and my father too.
Im 23 years old, and i want to play alone, not in band.
I love balads, romatic music and melodies (for example some songs of witney houston, or like kenny g with louis amstrong in "what a wonderfull world"), and my father love blues.

My question is, what sax its better for me? alto or tenor?
Tenor its more dificult to play?

Thanks

[BariSkaJazz]

Sounds like you need a whole new mouthpiece :lol:


BariSkaJazz- But isn't that a sweet sound if you are willing to work at it? I've heard it explained that when your airstream hits that big chamber with no baffle to speed it up, you feel the resistance. For the fans of the dark side, it works.


It may play like a sock, but I sure do sound beautiful on it. As a legit piece, this really makes for a nice tone. I didn't want to sound like I was trying to put it down. It plays a little stuffy, but thats a sacrifice I'm willing to make for the great sound that it helps me achieve. So I'm not trying to bash the Buesher pieces, I was just trying to explain how they feel.

Plus, I've got an STM Link 8 for when I feel like playing with something a little more free blowing. ;)

[martysax]

Martsax
Have you upset your wife ?:shock:

Nope, she was like that when I got her.

[jacobeid]

I was curious why you thought playing the soprano hurt you --- what exactly it made you do wrong. I just bought a soprano and a tenor for the first time(after playing alto for 4 years) --- so I just wondered what I should watch out for. My initial impression is that the soprano is pretty easy --- but I can barely play the tenor at all.

At the time, I wasn't taking sax lessons and I had a lot of bad habits. My embouchure was as tight as can be..my bottom lip was rolled in where it could touch the middle of my tounge. I was using a lot of "bad" fingerings (say rolling B to Bb). Those are just a few prime examples.

When I learned how wrong my technique was, instead of having to fix it on one horn, I had to fix it on two. I know I will never recommend a new comer without a teacher. Completely refitting my embouchure was quite a challenge and took months of a lot of long tones and such for it to finally set in good. On occasion though, I still bunch up my chin, but it gets better everyday.\

Everything has gotten a lot better in all my playing. Before, I could barely get out low notes. Now pianissmo low Bb's are easy as pie, along with subtones. It also helped my intonation quite a bit on both horns. Soprano is still not as well as I'd like it to be though.

Meh, I can't complain much though. I'm just a young player who still has a lot of time left, and I'm ahead of the game as I thought I would be.

[thei3yron]

[QUOTE=jimmitch]I think when you start out playing alto like I did you wonder why should I play tenor when you love alto so much Then a mark VI tenor comes along and you start playing tenor. QUOTE]

EXACTLY MY CASE!

[zorneatsham]

I would have switched from bari to tenor years ago if I could have had this glorious 10M my tech allowed me to play. It still saddens me that this horn was owned by a Mummer and was played outside in awful weather. As it was, I stuck with bari for awhile before making the switch to alto with a nice Keilwerth/Buffet. I will soon have a Transitional/6M, so I'm keeping with alto for now. I found alto easier to develop on and easier to buy/maintain. Maybe when I have more money (I'm a grad student), I will return to bari.

Zach

[Sax.Geek.And.Proud]

I've read through the replies to this post, and I still have a question. Is it better to focus more on the alto for a longer period of time or to switch between different saxes and figure which one you work with the best? I've been on the alto for about 3 yrs, and am thinking of renting a tenor. i'm just wondering if I should stay a little closer to my alto comfort range before switching to tenor. I really like the alto sound, but I like the amount of range the tenor has. Just wondering..

[saxymanzach]

I've read through the replies to this post, and I still have a question. Is it better to focus more on the alto for a longer period of time or to switch between different saxes and figure which one you work with the best? I've been on the alto for about 3 yrs, and am thinking of renting a tenor. i'm just wondering if I should stay a little closer to my alto comfort range before switching to tenor. I really like the alto sound, but I like the amount of range the tenor has. Just wondering..
It's best to just play whatever you want.

[Sax.Geek.And.Proud]

Ok...thanks for the tip...a bit obvious, yet, slightly helpful...I'll keep that in mind as I look around for a good tenor. Anyone have suggestions on makes/models? (I'm a bit of a tenor newbie, lol)

[saxymanzach]

Dpends on your skill level. If you want to buy one, I find that the Kessler Custom is a really great value. I'm no rich person and couldn't afforn the sax that I really wanted, but teh Kessler has made me VERY happy. But if you do rent (like you said abaove) you won't really have a choice, they most likely will all be student model horns probably at least 20-25 years old and needing some work).

[AuntSaxophone]

I think that the average tenor sound is more pleasing to more ears than
the average alto sound. There's also some element of fashion in that
more people start on alto and thus want to "graduate" to the larger horn.

I prefer alto, because of certain players with distinctive alto sounds, but
I love tenor too. What is interesting is that it seems most pro alto players
these days seem to double on soprano, which is what tenor players double
on. Makes sense if you read sheet music transposed for Bb, but then I
wonder why more alto players don't pick up bari.

Might be because it's so huge, heavy, and intimidating when you first look at it... I know it was for me the first time I set my eyes on the Bari that I had to play in middle school. But apart from it's size and weight (seeing as I can barely lift the case with it in it) I still love the Bari and if I had the cash to buy one I would.

[Sax.Geek.And.Proud]

I'd love to buy a horn of my own, besides my alto that is. I'm just not sure I can afford it. I looked at a few Yamaha tenors, can't remember the numbers, and they sounded sort of lifeless. Would it really be bad to have a 20yr + horn? Besides the work needed to fix it up a bit.

[saxymanzach]

I'd love to buy a horn of my own, besides my alto that is. I'm just not sure I can afford it. I looked at a few Yamaha tenors, can't remember the numbers, and they sounded sort of lifeless. Would it really be bad to have a 20yr + horn? Besides the work needed to fix it up a bit.
No, not at all, my point was that they probably have been played by scores of students that treated them horribly and didn't get the repairs that they needed. In fact, if you are looking for affordable, vintage saxes may be right up your alley. Check out: junkdude.com

[saxymanzach]

Might be because it's so huge, heavy, and intimidating when you first look at it... I know it was for me the first time I set my eyes on the Bari that I had to play in middle school. But apart from it's size and weight (seeing as I can barely lift the case with it in it) I still love the Bari and if I had the cash to buy one I would.
Well, it is not so much a sheet music issue, because 1) profassional players should be able to sight -transpose anything put in front of them and 2) most professional players (within the jazz genre) don't even use sheet music unless the tune is new.

[BayviewSax]

I think that the average tenor sound is more pleasing to more ears than
the average alto sound. There's also some element of fashion in that
more people start on alto and thus want to "graduate" to the larger horn.

I prefer alto, because of certain players with distinctive alto sounds, but
I love tenor too. What is interesting is that it seems most pro alto players
these days seem to double on soprano, which is what tenor players double
on. Makes sense if you read sheet music transposed for Bb, but then I
wonder why more alto players don't pick up bari.

I think you've hit the nail on the head on the alto vs. the tenor.

Seemingly a lot of the general public just don't dig the sound of the bari. You mention playing bari to some people and they react like you burped on them. But I think it's perception more than anything, because the reaction upon actually hearing it is almost always positive.

When I first started playing I told my teacher I wanted to take up the tenor, then the bari. She informed me the "proper" order was soprano before bari (whatever that meant). Ask most bari players though, we don't mind being small in number... keeps us busy.;)

[jsusax]

I love alto and bari, can't live without the two. I played them both all through high school and plan on picking the bari up again if I can find a horn that works. I played tenor for about ten months in high school and it never really did anything for me. I was young and didn't really know what I wanted to do later in life so I dropped it and stuck to alto and bari. Now I think that there might be certain benefits to becoming more fluent on all saxophones. So now I'm left with the task of finding some horns to play...

[Razzy]

For the first two years of college I was mostly an alto & bari guy. People knew me as the bari kid. Now I'm still mostly an alto guy but I play a lot of tenor and soprano too, and almost no bari, as I no longer have access to one. People are starting to know me as that tenor guy because apparently I've played it on public more often. But I also played flute in the orchestra for the choir and piccolo/flute chair for the Porgy and Bess opera last year... and people know me as that flute player.

I'm glad for all of this because it reflects my belief that you really need to treat each horn like its own voice, with its own personality and quirks, separate from all the rest. Yes there are differences but the more I dig into any given horn specifically as an individual solo voice, the better I sound on ALL of them. I'm thinking about buying a nice old Conn bari and getting a mouthpiece again and getting back into it over the summer... nothing like the bari, really, it's probably THE most distinctive saxophone.

[JPSaxMan]

I'm glad for all of this because it reflects my belief that you really need to treat each horn like its own voice, with its own personality and quirks, separate from all the rest. Yes there are differences but the more I dig into any given horn specifically as an individual solo voice, the better I sound on ALL of them. I'm thinking about buying a nice old Conn bari and getting a mouthpiece again and getting back into it over the summer... nothing like the bari, really, it's probably THE most distinctive saxophone.

This couldn't be more true. Even though I'm pretty fluent at alto, tenor, and bari, I find that since I haven't spent as much individual time on bari, my bari tone and technique is only sub-par compared to that of the alto and tenor. Then when I was spending 6 hours a day on clarinet for weeks at a time, I was getting really good on that as well. Now more recently that I've switched from tenor to alto, my alto tone is improving immensely yet I question if I still have my outstanding tenor tone. The statement that Razzy posted couldn't be more true and I find the greatest players due to their virtuosity on multiple horns (like Kirk Whalum, Greg Vail, etc) that have their own unique voice on each horn.

[Saxplayer67]

I started on alto, then got a soprano a couple years later, then after quite a long gap, got a tenor, purely because I wanted to have these three 'main ones' (I wouldn't have room for a baritone!).

Alto is still my main horn, soprano and tenor I don't play as much as I would like but I love the bright, lyrical sound of the soprano and the tenor opens up a whole new world of imagination when I'm just noodling around on it.

[Doug Lange]

I started on tenor in 5th grade. Got an alto for college. Played tenor for jazz and alto for legit. Even today, this is my preference. Nothing sounds "right" when I use alto for jazz but was fine for reading music. Tenor always fits my conception of the sound coming out of the horn. I guess alto fits for my left brain and tenor for my right brain;-)

Soprano... Being Bb, it is an extension of tenor and always a kick to play. I usually play soprano in church. It's not too loud and a great solo voice with guitars, piano and drums.

[Sax.Geek.And.Proud]

In fact, if you are looking for affordable, vintage saxes may be right up your alley. Check out: junkdude.com
Thanks for the site referance! It's helped a whole lot in my search for the right tenor! :)