"New" Aristocrat silver - or - lacquer?

[Ptrick]

I have seen on Mr. Goodson's site that all New Aristocrats are silver. I have a nice old tenor that looks like brass lacquer but is very iffy... In oder to get to the bottom of it I think I will have to polish a portion of it to see if there is just a layer of goop on top of the silver.
The question is - what area would be the best for this sample operation? I am thinking bottom of bow...

[paulwl]

Hmmm....Steve sez: (http://saxgourmet.com/VINTAGE_SAXOPHONE_VALUE_GUIDE.htm)
They’re almost always seen in satin silver.
Ie: there are lacquered New Crats out there. I own a 1932 tenor, 265k, and am pretty sure the lacquer is original (anyway, it's in deplorable condition but with sharp bell engraving).

Steve continues:
Add 20% for gold plating.
I'd think more like 100%, just for rarity's sake. I've never seen a gold New Crat (though I'm told Sigurd Rascher's was). The depression was on big time when they were being made. My old sales literature tells me Buescher didn't even offer special engraving except on a quote basis. And all the really good engravers worked for Conn then, making their deluxe finish sax a little better deal than other makers'.

If you want to do the goop test, I'd pick someplace that wear occurs anyway - like the blade edge of the bottom bow guard, or perhaps the thumb hook.

[GizmoSax]

I just bought a 1931 alto, ser#261xxx with original lacquer 95%+.
It is definately a closet horn cause it looks better than most recent horns.
Now, from what I could find out, it is according to the serial number, supposed to be a "New Aristocrat", however, the engraving says "The Buescher", which from what I have read makes it a "True Tone".
It looks and plays like it did back in 1931, but I would like to know, is it a "True Tone" or is it a "New Aristocrat"?

[paulwl]

According to our illustrious webmaster Saxpics, the changeover to the new alto happened at #2627xx. (Tenor and bari came a little later.) I'll bet yours was a T-T with that number.

New Crat features included:
• reworked intonation
• new neck tapers (most stamped ** - a few stamped 3)
• Norton threaded springs
• curved side E key
• extra tab on the low Bb key so you can roll across from B
• bigger LH palm touches
• diamond shaped keypost feet (T-T posts had oval shaped feet)
• new Deco-type engraving

See Saxpics' special feature page on altos:
http://www.saxpics.com/buescher/docs/buescher_altos_tty.htm

[Gayle Fredenburgh]

GizmoSax,

Your 261k alto is a late True Tone. I would imagine it would have a * neck which is the same as a 1 neck. I'd look it over pretty closely myself to check that lacquer for originality. Years back I had a 267k New Aristo that had original lacquer. I've never seen original lacquer on a True Tone, it just wasn't in use then.

Paul, Buescher gold plated highly engraved horns are much rarer than Conns but there were some made. I wonder if Conn engravers didn't work on some Bueschers. I've seen some beautiful engraving on Artist model True Tones. I just bought a 271k gold plated Aristocrat tenor and it has a a little more of the standard Aristocrat engraving but also it has a portrait of a ship in a Pentagon on the bell center. I also have a New Aristo GP alto with a windmill engraving. I've seen others and all original gold plated Buescher New Aristos or Aristocrats have this small portrait style scene.

[paulwl]

Gayle, what interesting info...Hope you'll take pictures for Saxpics.com at some point.

[Gayle Fredenburgh]

Here are a few links to photos of a gold plated Aristocrat Tenor and a New Aristocrat gold plated Alto. The catologs call this their Finish K. It is listed as quadruple gold plate over silver plate, beautifully engraved design on bell. Entire instrument burnished mirror finish.

Aristo Tenor Engraving (http://www.members.aol.com/gparisto/bues271033ten.eng2.jpg/)

Aristo Tenor (http://www.members.aol.com/gparisto/bue271033ten.bell.jpg/)

New Aristo Alto (http://www.members.aol.com/gparisto/bues264263alto.eng2.jpg/)

[paulwl]

Wow! Thanks.