Lesser-known Bari brands- trustworthy?

[dshack]

I'm playing a B&S 1000 and Yamaha YBS-52 in my high school jazz and symphonic bands, and am looking to purchase a bari of my own, "trying" to stay under the $3000 mark including any repairs. Looking on ebay, I'm seeing a lot of brand new Baris by makers of which I hadn't heard before. Does anyone have experience with horns from these companies?

Milwaukee/ Jim Laabs Music Low A Bari (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bari-Saxophone-700-Milwaukee-Black-or-Silver-Finish_W0QQitemZ7385384710QQcategoryZ16233QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem)
-Allows you to choose from a silver or black laquer finish.

Kohlert bari (http://cgi.ebay.com/Kohlert-Baritone-Sax-w-Low-A-case-NEW-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ7385726577QQcategoryZ16233QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem)

Jupiter: there's are bunch of these on wwbw, ebay, etc. I heard they had a crappy reputation for awhile, but then supposedly got much better. Which of these horns, if any, are a good investment? I don't want to buy another Bari in the forseeable future

Allora: Seen them on wwbw. Don't really know anything about them.

[Gandalfe]

What do you think about the Yamaha 52, as far as intonation, keyworks, and sound?

[Dave dix]

A bari for under 3k , you cant go wrong with one of these and it will last a life time http://www.junkdude.com/saxes/bb345335.htm
Dave

[Brendan Muse]

If you want to stay under three grand, go with a Yamaha 52. I hear the Alloras are also pretty good, and you get a pretty sturdy case. Try both of them before you buy either.

[MPL]

Where on earth can you get a Yamaha 52 baritone in good shape for less than $3K?!?

Seriously, most of the new baritones you see on Ebay for <$3K may be cheaply made, with softer metal in body & keys, lower quality pads, corks, felts, etc., and assembled by less-trained techs. My experience is that they're not real durable. will go out of adjustment easily, and will need lots of repair tech attention to keep in playing condition. Additionally, if you buy one and then try to resell it in a few years you'll lose most of your original purchase price, as these horns don't hold their value well. So in the long run you won't really save money.

As for vintage baritones, many will sound far better than a new but cheap horn - however, a vintage horn that's been beat up over its lifespan may also cost you a bundle to overhaul and keep in playing shape. If you go vintage, look for one that hasn't been mangled in a past life - not so easy to find. Junkdude has a great reputation for vintage horns in great shape.

The Jupiter 593 is their student-level horn and has mixed reviews. The 893 is their pro-level horn...it's more than $3K, but I've tried one and it played great.

IF you can find a Vito VSP, even used but in good condition, I'd recommend that horn. It's really a Yanagisawa 901 assembled in the US, and it's a terrific horn - I'd say better than the Yamaha 52, and I've tried 'em side-by-side. I've seen used VSPs for well under $3K, mainly because they're Vitos and not Yanagisawas, and thus have a lower resale value. However, used VSP baris are rare.

[KeithL]

I agree with MPL. Yamaha 52's can be had for around $3k but they sure aren't easy to find at that price because every band director in the world is looking for them as baris take a lot of punishment in high school marching bands.
Whitehall is another Yani stencil that you might try if you can find one. If you can squeeze your budget up about a grand the Yani B901 is a great horn for the money. I spent a whole day at USA Horn going back and forth between the 901 and 992 which I eventually bought but these horns are very similar in sound and feel and both were far superior (IMO) to anything else they had.

[shmuelyosef]

You can get monster baris for way less than $2000. In the last 4 years:
- King Tempo (JK stencil) with custom keywork for $2000
- Sold an absolutely cherry 1950 Conn 12M for $2000
- Sold an absolutely cherry King Zephyr (Cleveland) for $1400
- Bought a Couf Superba in excellent playing condition with >80% lacquer for $1950

ya just got to keep your eyes open and be patient...while I am a tech, none of these horns needed more than a $100 PC service to be pro level (the ones I sold were gig ready and survived shipping perfectly)....why would you want a YBS-52 when you could have horns like this!

[dshack]

I really want that low A, though.

Opinions on Yani 901 vs. Yamaha 52?

[Brendan Muse]

The 901 is by far the better horn, particularly for the money. I play a 52 and a Yani 902 (which is exactly like the 901, but made out of bronze), and the Yani wins hands down. If you can pick up a Vito VSP (which is the 901 in a flimsier case), go for it

[paulwl]

You can get monster baris for way less than $2000.But it does help your budget if low A isn't a necessity...8-)

[singlereed]

I use a B901 that I thoroughly recommend if you can pick one up on your budget secondhand, it has been absolutely trouble free for about 4 years from new. I can's say that about any other horns I own! I understand the Yamaha is just as good - the 32 or 52 are what they sell here in the UK and they are known as very smart buys.

I have tried a couple of budget baris, an Elkhart (which is the Tawianese horn imported here by Vincent Bach) and an Antigua - and both of these played very well, albeit a bit more clumsy feeling than my Yani. But both felt solid (important on a bari, with all those long rods) and played pretty well.

I think, though, the ideas expressed by others about seeking out a second hand horn from one of those mentioned above would be a good move.

[MPL]

Yani 901 ( = Vito VSP, that is) over the Yamaha 52, hands down - assuming all other things being equal, such as condition of horn and pads, good basic case, etc. The VSP I tried had much more presence than the 52 next to it in the shop, and both horns were in terrific shape.

If you get the chance to test drive a vintage baritone - find a saxophonist who really knows what a baritone should sound like, and who will be able to help judge whether a vintage horn is truly in great shape, or merely playable. There's a huge difference!

[sycc]

ABed a Yani 901 and a Yamaha 52 bari at USA horn last week and the yani won hands down. Yani had a better ergonomics and a better tone.

[BayviewSax]

dshack: avoid Milwaukees like the plague. I had a Milwaukee soprano; it played okay, but they're tremendously overpriced for a Winston-esque quality horn. Mason, Milwaukee, DC Pro -- AVOID!

For that kind of money, you should be able to pick up an older horn -- even a low-A Vito from the Yani years. If Junkdude doesn't have what you're looking for, check with Dave Kessler (links all over this site), Sax Alley (http://www.saxalley.com), World-wide Sax (http://www.worldwidesax.com), Marsh Woodwinds (http://www.marshwoodwinds.com), USA Band (http://www.1800usaband.com)... heck, just google: "Baritone Sax" + "Low-A" + sales + used

[Hornless :(]

Miliwaukee Description from that Ebay Auction:

Select One of 2 Superior Quality Finishes!! (laquer and laquer w color dye)
Produces A Rich Sound Exhibiting Excellent Overtones (otherwise known as wolftones)
Finest Quality French Brass (Finest Taiwanese assembly)
Big Bell Standard (I'd like the small bell version)
High F# Key (not really a 'pro' feature anymore)
Kid Leather Metal Resonator Pads (If you kid outlaws, soon only outlaws will have kids...)
Adjustable Thumb Rest (standard feature)
Durable Plastic Molded Lockable Case (see above)
Round Surface Octave Key (ummm...)
Air-Tight Body-To-Bell Connection (otherwise known as glue)
Tri-Point Balanced Bell Brace (why not Quad point?)
Black Steel Needle Springs (I believe this is supposed to be BLUE steel, and Zoolander's lawyer will be calling!)
Hand Engraving On Bell (Hand = laser or machine operated by said hand)


I get alittle bothered by these 'descriptions' especially when I see younger players eagerly accepting everything they say and dropping huge amounts of money on horns that wouldve made better door knobs or decorative garden signs.

/end my little rant