Reed frustration - I can kill one in 20 minutes

[deliberate1]

Friends, I seem to blow through a new reed within 20 minutes. I will put a new one on before rehersal. It blows beautifully. And within 15 minutes or so it starts getting softand balky, and within 5-10 minutes after that it "closes up" and all I can get is a squeek. My horn is a vintage Martin tenor. Mouthpiece either Otto Link slant sig 4 or new Morgan 3c. Recent reeds are Superial 3 1/2, though I get the same phenomenon with V16's in 4. Thought it might be my ligature (E Daniels - the fancy one) so I just bought an Optimum. It sounded wonderful today with the new reed on the Morgan. But within 20 minutes - dead reed. It is so damn frustrating to be playing through 4-5 reeds in the course of a rehersal. Totally blows my concentration and confidence, particularly with solos. I do not think it is the horn, piece or ligature, or even my embusher, because I can replace the dead reed with a new one and immediately get back into it. I confess that I do have clarinet chops (my main instrument) but have had no issues like this with that horn or with the alto. My next move is to try a plastic reed (suggestions?), and then, to trade the tenor in for a french horn. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Sigmund451]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the experience with clarinet. If your executing reeds at that strength and speed Id suggest back pedaling to learn good sax form. Get a lighter reed for a while. This will force you to loosen your grip (If you want to make any sound or play in tune) and you will likely find the remedy to your problem. My guess is that you dont have the problem with alto because alto requires a firmer embrochure than tenor. Also, dont overblow...this can happen with reeds that are too stiff.

The only other solution that comes to mind is getting some cross cut timber and strapping it on your mouthpiece. Best of luck.

[deliberate1]

The only other solution that comes to mind is getting some cross cut timber and strapping it on your mouthpiece. Best of luck.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking of maple or oak, rather than some soft wood...Thanks for the suggestion. I will give the softer reed a go a really concentrate on loosening the emboucher. Funny thing is that I have been playing tenor for about 25 years (clarinet around 40), and this issue is recent. Perhaps case of an old dog learning bad new tricks.

[Dr G]

Take some time to read the info in the Superial tin regarding breaking in your reeds. If you just slap them on fresh out to the box and blow the heck out of them, you deserve what you get. Sorry, but that's a fact. I've stuck with DC's ever since discovering them several years ago and they last plenty long when I take the time to break them in properly and keep several in rotation.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I might try fibracells. When I used them on tenor I could go for quite a while on one before it softened up to the point of needing to be replaced.

The other option is to break in your reeds gently.

[Dave dix]

Your mpc's are very small , how about trying a larger piece with softer reeds and see how you get on
Dave

[deliberate1]

Thanks, gents for your suggestions. Dave, I had thought of going with a wider opening as well when I got the Morgan but decided on the 3C because it made the transition easier to clarinet when doubling. What would you suggest for a wider opening and maker? I prefer a rubber piece and favor the focused and smooth sound of the Morgan and Link. I would try a wider Morgan, but can not wait the many months it took to get my last one. Thanks again

[Dr G]

I think you should already be in the correct ballpark with the 3C and the Superial 3.5s. As Sigmund pointed out, you may be overplaying the mouthpiece. If you use a saxophone embouchure instead of a clarinet embouchure (yes, they are different) and relax a bit instead of forcing the sound, you should be in tone nirvana.

If you really want to explore another setup and like the sound of the 3C, either try a Morgan 5L (or 6L) with the same reeds. I use a 3C that was opened to .095" and use it with Alexander DC 3 for all my classical work and much of my jazz. Once you learn to relax and blow through the horn on these setups, you can fill a room quite effortlessly. The key is learning to balance your urge to HONK with the sensation of blowing THROUGH the horn.

If you take the reface route, you should be able to turn your mouthpiece around in a couple weeks at most. Ask the various refacers of their experience with working on classical mouthpieces with respect to facings and baffle profiles. I'd recommend my mouthpiece tech but he died and I don't know anyone that has his experience. My mouthpiece was the result of a few iterations. That aside, something like the Morgan 5L (or 6L) is very similar.

[deliberate1]

Dr G thanks for your particularly sensible reply. Actually, I spoke with David at Junkdude this afternooon and he told me he was quite familiar with the phenomenon I was describing. He has a used 7L he is sending out to me to try. I would rather do this than mess with the 3c which I would hope to get back to at some time. The 3c is close - .75, if memory serves, and the 7L is in the .95 range, similar to your mpc. I like your visualization about blowing through the horn. I do feel myself sometimes getting a stranglehold on it. Care to share your thoughts on the seminal differences between clarinet and sax chops for me to ponder? Much obliged.

[Dave dix]

Good move and i think that 7L will work fine
Dave

[deliberate1]

Dave dix, going to the 7L must be a good idea if the three Daves think it is. I am looking forward to another Morgan. I play his RM15 clarinet piece which is just beautiful. I waited more than 5 months for the 3C because Ralph was so busy. More recently, I have heard that he is backed up because he can not get the blanks. I heard of a guy who has been stocking up on Morgan pieces for years. He probably will be able to retire on them. Cheers

[58tenor]

Reeds can really be a big bummer. For me, synthetic is the only way. Fibracells are great. They simply do everything better than cane. Last very long and don't warp or dry out. Response, tone and flexability are great. These have made my saxophone life MUCH easier. I used to have a big shoebox of cane reeds. Expensive waste of time. Technology is good sometimes.

[deliberate1]

58, what is your choise in synthetics and how did you settle on the right strength? I have read that some (Fibrecell?) run about a half softer than wood, though this may be specious given the enormous variablity not just between brands but among reeds in the same box. Suggestions for my 3c - tip .75?

Reeds can really be a big bummer. For me, synthetic is the only way. Fibracells are great. They simply do everything better than cane. Last very long and don't warp or dry out. Response, tone and flexability are great. These have made my saxophone life MUCH easier. I used to have a big shoebox of cane reeds. Expensive waste of time. Technology is good sometimes.

[Benjahmin]

@Deliberate1
Oh Yes...I feel I know Your problem !...meaning that I tend to have it myself.
I blow a Beechler 7 Mouthpiece....one of the best I could find for my purposes
and I use rather soft reeds on it....Van Doren 2 to 2,5 or 3.
Now the reeds going off right from the start....tend to lack down on Power quite quickly...just as You described it.
So what I started doing , was to get stronger reeds and play them "soft" one by one and time by time. This way...as the reed gets worn out, it more or less gets the strentgh and sound , one is looking for and keeps it a LONG time.

So eventually I take an hour or two in the Rehearsal-Room doing nothing else but playing in new reeds...having them set dry and playing them again the next time. This way they will eventually get the way I want them....and I by now allways have up to a hundred reeds actually ready to play and durable to ca. half a year. So instead of playing a 2,5 reed-....I rather play a "worn out" 3.-reed.....which will hold it`s tension as it is....thus last for ages.

[deliberate1]

Benjahmin, interesting approach, and a good one. Once the reed gets where you like it, do you then rotate them within a rehersal or gig, or do you find if broken in in this fashion, they stabilize and can be played exclusively several sessions in a row?

[Benjahmin]

Deliberate1

Well, it depends......
Generally I have my reed-stock "rotate and constantly renewed" so that I never play on one specific reed TOO long. This is not to keep the reed in form though, but rather to stop myself from getting used to one special reed far too much and then disliking all the others. ( a tendency I often observed on myself ...I like to get "spoiled " on good reeds ;-) )
I have used special reeds exclusively for quite a while just as well though....
when working in Studios or on Stage, simply knowing, they were THE thing...and hoping they would last through the job.( which they mostly did )

So I have one reed pinned over my Workbench, carrying the Date 1986 - 1988
meaning I did blow it over nearly two years, playing on 3 CDs / Studioevents and quite a lot of Live-gigs. So this reed was my " magic wand" until it cracked.....but I remember the difficulties, getting back to "normal reeds" afterwards as well.
So I started the "rotating-system" recommended by most classical reed-players ( Clarinets,Oboes etc ) as well.
Yours
Benjahmin

[alsdiego]

Benjahmen's approach works for me, too. I start with a reed that's slightly too hard, then "break it in" over several days. Also, be sure you're not soaking your reeds too much.... that can soften the wood fibers quickly. Once my reed is broken in, I just soak it in water (never saliva) for a minute or 2, and its ready to go. I still go through a lot of reeds, but a good one will still be nice and bright after a week, and usually last 2 weeks or more if played for 2 hours or so every day. Also, store your reeds in a reed case to keep the tip flat when the reed dries out.

Al

[deliberate1]

All good advise. My thanks to you all.

[58tenor]

delib', I just tried different strengths and wound up on Med. Softs with a metal 10# Guy Hawkins. I dunno 'bout the crossover to other reed strengths. There's a million designer reeds these days. The 'cells vary a tiny bit but 5 out of 5 will play well throughout the entire range of the horn. Right outta the box! Try that with cane. They typically cost about $10 a pop and last for a month or more. That's anywhere from 40-50 hrs.

Put the horn down for a day. Next day the 'cell will play perfect within 1 minute of blowing. I have had some luck trimming when they finally get tto soft. No offense to the above posters, but it's beyond me why you would endure the hassle of farting around so much with reeds to get them to work. I'd rather be blowing.

They used to make airplanes out of wood.

[Benjahmin]

@58Tenor
"They used to make airplanes out of wood "......That`s a nice one !!
;-) ;-)
And those are exactly the planes I love !
But seriously speaking.....I get the idea You are talking about Fibre-reeds here
right ?
So following question : When playing those reeds, I feel, all of them ( no matter which brand) are extremely rough to the lip....feels like blowing on sandpaper ...even when they are sanded down to be smooth.....the cellular structure still seems to "pop up" and ruin my lips. How do You deal with that ??..... Or am I the only one to have this problem ??

Besides that...ehhhh.... a Sax is a WOODwind-instrument.....so even if it`s a hassle sometimes.....I still like the idea of having at least a TINY aspekt of natural influence left....meaning a natural cane.
OK...I know I´m old fashioned.;) never mention it:D

Benjahmin