View Full Version : A plus turned minus with this brand
The P. Mauriat was intially a bargain - one could get it at a very good price, and could afford to take a risk with an unknown brand because of it. Now the 66R is listed at 2500 at Sax Alley (with the setup) and 2100 with Junkdude, because the manufacturer has upped their prices. This means that the instrument is now the same or even higher in price than used professonal model Keilwerths, Yanigasawas, Yamahas, that can be purchased on ebay or some of the used dealers and resold without losing a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, the horn in terms of how it sounds and plays may be worth it, and is perhaps better - in fact, I'm partly writing this because I want one. But in terms of investment, one is now paying major money for a brand that has very dubious resale value, and which has not proven itself to be hearty enough to withstand years of hard playing. It puts one in a position of making a poor investment for one's addiction to sound, if you get my drift. An unwise purchase from an investment point of view. Darn - I'll probably end up getting one anyway, if indeed it turns out to be a vintage sounding horn with good intonation, projection, and an even scale.
(Will Young singing in the distance) Ya Gotta' Love the One You're With :D
Morry
01-30-2006, 05:14 PM
The P. Mauriat was intially a bargain - one could get it at a very good price, and could afford to take a risk with an unknown brand because of it. Now the 66R is listed at 2500 at Sax Alley (with the setup) and 2100 with Junkdude, because the manufacturer has upped their prices. This means that the instrument is now the same or even higher in price than used professonal model Keilwerths, Yanigasawas, Yamahas, that can be purchased on ebay or some of the used dealers and resold without losing a lot of money. Don't get me wrong, the horn in terms of how it sounds and plays may be worth it, and is perhaps better - in fact, I'm partly writing this because I want one. But in terms of investment, one is now paying major money for a brand that has very dubious resale value, and which has not proven itself to be hearty enough to withstand years of hard playing. It puts one in a position of making a poor investment for one's addiction to sound, if you get my drift. An unwise purchase from an investment point of view. Darn - I'll probably end up getting one anyway, if indeed it turns out to be a vintage sounding horn with good intonation, projection, and an even scale.
Leon, if it helps, I think my dealer friend can still get you one for $1895. I'd have to check to be sure.
Dave Dolson
01-30-2006, 05:27 PM
Leon: Interesting post. Thanks.
I'm one to consider a saxophone as a fun purchase, realizing that if the horn is NOT a keeper, I'll lose money on the deal.
An investment? Hardly. I've lost money on the hi-end horns (Selmer, Yanagisawa) as well as the cheapies. The only horn I've made money on (well, potentially - I still have it) that wasn't PURE inflation, was my MKVI alto, purchased around 1980 (along with a nice Buffet R13 clarinet) for $1K.
I know some posters here may have broken even or made a little profit as they went through many horns, but not me. Maybe that says something about MY mentality, but I don't see a lot of folks making enough profit to justify the many transactions; so - no investment.
As far as the PM horns - just another Taiwnese saxophone as far as I'm concerned (not a bad thing, but nothing special - so far). Their catalog showing a new MKVI-styled soprano turned out not to be true. DAVE
saxmanjack
01-30-2006, 06:33 PM
Remember when buying a new stereo component, a new computer, or even a new car was fun? Yes, a good horn should be fun to buy and make you proud to own, but as with most everything else, they are destined to become boring, mundane victims of cheap mass production. In a few years, you'll wish you bought a Selmer or Yamaha that was actually made in France or Japan. Better to buy vintage if you care about resale...
rispoli
01-30-2006, 06:58 PM
The P. Mauriat was intially a bargain - one could get it at a very good price, and could afford to take a risk with an unknown brand because of it. Now the 66R is listed at 2500 at Sax Alley (with the setup) and 2100 with Junkdude, because the manufacturer has upped their prices.
And, guess what, it is still a bargain to produce!
I have an unconfirmed voice of how much it costs to produce one, PM me if you want to know (I can't post unconfirmed voices here) and, guaranteed, you'll shake when reading....
Growing market demand boost price and, this is just a personal reflection, human greed makes the rest :x .
I have a feeling that Dave Kessler was referring also to those when he mentioned that some exclusive distributors (what Monteverde Music is) are charging unreasonably high prices for asian-made saxophones in his NAMM 2006 report. They have found their cash-cows. Will sky be the limit for their price??
By the way, in light of other posts you should be still able to get one for 2000$, Sax Alley is flying high these days (I know, Tim will set it up well...).
Jorns Bergenson
01-30-2006, 07:13 PM
(Will Young singing in the distance) Ya Gotta' Love the One You're With :D
You mean Stephen Stills of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, right? (Boy, we're getting old! That song came out around 1969!)
You're right of course, Dave. I have not, nor is it my intent, to make a profit selling horns, nor am I in the business in any way other than as a player. But one doesn't want to lose too much along the way - Tim's price for the 66R is 2500, or at least it is posted as such. Junkdude is 2100. Mory, I may check into your contact person - I know who that is, we've talked before and I have a B&S that won't sell for what I paid for it probably, but it's a great horn, and I have no doubt that it still will be great ten years from now; it's built strong. Nobody knows about Mauriat. I had a Borgani Jubilee that had a gorgeous tone - I just loved it, but it lived on the workbench. I have a Mark VI that will last forever but it doesn't turn me on any more than either the Borgani or Mark VI.
(I prefer the vintage American sound, never have demanded a Selmer core sound). If I knew that the Mauriat was a strong horn built to last, I wouldn't mind paying a price comparable to a used vintage American or brand name Japanese or a Keilwerth - so Gary, maybe you are right, I should love the one I'm with. But then I have never been a big Crosby Stills and Nash fan.
I lied - actually I do rather like Crosby Stills and Nash in small doses.
(I think the song was written by Will Young. The version I actually know is by Luther Vandross. I'm too young to remember CSN&Y. What is that anyway? The name of some law firm?)
jrvinson45
01-30-2006, 11:02 PM
Hey you young whippersnappers... It's Neil Young, not Will Young, and It's the same song Luther covered. Sooooo Love the One You're With.
Giganova
01-30-2006, 11:17 PM
Call the Washington Music Center (http://www.washingtonmusic.com/inv.asp?d=bandorch&sd=woodwinds&b=Pmauriat&n=947), also known as "Chuck Lewis". They were selling the 66R for $1895 as of last week.
Jorns Bergenson
01-30-2006, 11:18 PM
Sorry, I can't let this lie: it was Stephen Stills, David Crosby and Graham Nash that originally recorded that song, but Neil Young had no part in it. Those are the facts, well as far as my aged memory serves.
Kritavi
01-30-2006, 11:22 PM
No, you are wrong too, boy these old hippies, sheeeshh:? ;)
It was on the first Stephen Stills solo album entitled Stephen Stills. I believe he wrote it by himself as well.
Yep, Stephen Stills words and lyrics.
I had previously read that Will Young was the lyricist but just now double-checked and Kritavi is right. My bad. Some of us are just too young to know that kind of stuff, much less remember it. :|
But back to Leon. Leon...what are you playing now? Don't get caught up in the conversations here. These things go in cycles here. Some conversations start over a new product, lots of folks get interested, and then some run out and buy the stuff. Of course, buying that might be just what the doctor ordered. But sometimes that stuff starts showing up a year later in the for sale column. Hence the question...what are you playing now and should you be loving the one you're with? :)
Gary - thanks for your good sense. I think in some ways I am still mourning the loss of my Borgani Jubilee. I sold it because we didn't get along. It was in the shop too much.
I have a B&S black nickle tenor I bought as a backup to my Mark VI. It has much more power than my Mark VI but somehow I can't see myself playing it exclusively. It doesn't have quite as much enunciation of notes, if that makes any sense. The VI is an original 160K which is very resonant and alive in ones hands. But I really miss having a horn with the spread and warmth of vintage. So if the Mauriat has that, I want one.
I could sell the B&S or the VI. THe six would leave me with extra money in my pocket. In regard to the VI, I'm on the fence about whether to sell it or send it to Tenor Madness. If the spring tension was tightened and the keys opened, so that it FELT like the B&S and had a little more power, it would be killer. Right now, it's alive, and it's sweet, but not quite as powerful as I want. By the way, I traded another VI plus a good chunk of cash to get it because of it's aliveness and resonance. Thanks, Gary. I wish I was as sensible as you.
Giganova
01-31-2006, 02:06 AM
Well, I played the P. Mauriat 66R. It sure is a great horn and sounds wonderful. And its relatively "cheap" (you can still get it for $1.9k). But while holding it in my hands, looking at the "craftsmanship" and blowing it I never got the feeling "Wow, that's a keeper!". Given the horns you have (and keep in mind that both the B&S and 66R are similary dark horns) I think this might not satisfy your needs/urge to replace either of your horns. I think it is what it is: a medium-priced horn with good value for the money, but not a horn one might want to keep for a lifetime or as a replacement for other pro horns. Also, there's one thing that really bothered me: this horn is built in Taiwan, which means most of your $$$ will leave your country, some of that money will flow to Taiwan, another part to a company within the US that doesn't really exist (physically). I'd rather support traditional and innovatove sax builders which have a long history and need our support. But that's just me :D
Mark R
01-31-2006, 05:08 AM
(and keep in mind that both the B&S and 66R are similary dark horns)
I own both a PMXT-66R and a B&S gold lacquer Codera (same body tube and neck as a B&S 2001). I find them to be quite different...otherwise I would have not gotten the PMXT-66R. To me my P. has a more smokey complex harmonics in the tone thing happening and also has a bit more flexiblity in bending/inflections and articulations i.e. more personality, less sterile allows me to have a larger range of expression when playing it. The B&S is no slouch, it is a great player in it's own right. The B&S has a little more bite and hardness to the sound. The P has more roundness and warmth to the tone. To me the P has more of a Selmer vibe when it comes to the resistance and bore...airflow.
I have also made and lost money on different horns. I was quite the skeptic when I ordered the PMXT-66R....I first tried a Nickel silver PMNS60 and was not impressed in the least with it but the Custom Class horns are an entirely different playing instrument to me. I love old vintage horns and for me the P is like a cross between a MKVI and a Conn. That's for me though. Anyway I digress I had the intention of trying the 66R and returning it to let the dealer know that the P was just hype and no comparison to great vintage saxophones.
I don't really like the antiqued finish but I feel it contributes to the way this horn plays and sounds. Sure I wish they charged less but greed or not businesses will charge what the market will bear regardless of their cost to produce it. Just how much do you think McDonalds pays for that $1.35 soft drink..that they are going to give you the cup and make you get? Maybe tops .03-.05. To me the proof is in how much is the horn worth to me, chances are it will never be worth what I would like someone to pay once I want to sell one. What do you have to lose by getting one from a dealer, if you don't like it send it back, all you are out is shipping? Also I have not read anyone bragging about how well a new Selmer or Yamaha Z horn is made these days.
Besides Joe Lovano I don't notice anyone exclaiming how great a Borgani is, how the quality of their build is and I don't see their prices as being very low nor a big resale demand for them and those run about $1500-$2000 higher than a P. Mauriat. As fine of a horn as Yanagisawa/ Yamaha is I don't see anyone making a profit when selling them second hand. My point is rarely is an individual going to realize a profit when reselling a newer modern sax they bought brand new regardless of brand including the big 4. Only time will tell how durable the P. Mauriat will be in the long run. For me on a personal level I think the P. is the biggest bang for the buck in what I want from a saxophone. I want it to play well, sound well and I want to enjoy the instrument. If I want investments, saxophones would not be the way to go.
GAS_Wyo
01-31-2006, 06:28 AM
I'll have to dissent on the "Taiwan factor". :twisted: We live in a global economy! The bulk of the money I paid for the horns from SaxAlley (and now I know I paid top dollar for them) will go to the mfgr. I have no problem with that as I believe it's a better horn than my Selmer Paris SA80. All things being even, I'd pick the PM any day. :D The other parts of the money will go to Monteverde, a US based company/importer. I have no problem with that as any good importer who backs a quality product should make a little money for their work. Last, but not least, some of the money will go to Tim Glesmann :) who is one of the best sax technicians around! I'd rather give him the money because he produces great horns with a custom setup/adjustment that gives the horn a great chance to be seen by others. With a good reputation, the whole chain from brass manufacturer to dealer perpetuates the brand. I think it's a quality product for a medium price! It's a smart business strategy too! :shock:
Another issue...where do we think all the money has been going for the "traditional and innovative sax builders"? :? If I'm not mistaken, B&S & Keilwerth are in Germany, Selmer is in France, Yamaha & Yanagisawa are in Japan. Each has a US distributor/importer who has been taking MORE than good money from the US for decades. Selmers are priced based on their reputation built from the beginning, but I have read on SOTW that the quality of their current horns is VERY inconsistent. :( How did Selmer get the money to do their research and development over the years?...by charging top price based on previous reputation. I think they are milking the cash cow and can for some time to come. Obviously, there are some very loyal Selmer fans.
Giganova: IMHO, we need to start thinking that the P.Mauirat company IS THE INNOVATOR! They have figured out a way to manufacture great sounding horns using state of the art techniques that can be imported to the US for a reasonable price. Additionally, they take feedback from Roger Greenburg who checks with techies like Tim to find out how to make the horns even better. I wonder if Selmer, Yamaha, Yanagisawa or Keilwerth still do? Is Keilwerth actually rolling the toneholes? I believe I read that the roll is soldered onto the drawn hole :shock: IMO, a brand that is building such a great reputation among sax players worldwide shouldn't shortcut the mfg process and introduce another potential inconsistency.
(off the soapbox now) I work in a company who competes globally. We have a lot of pride in the US and Europe...but that attitude doesn't fly in the rest of the world. I went for sound first, ergonomics second, build quality third...origin of the horn was last. Now, when I buy a car/truck, it's US all the way. When I buy a sax, it's for pure playing pleasure and I'm going to buy the horn that gives me the sound I want.
Razzy
01-31-2006, 06:41 AM
Whoa there, I'm only 20 and I knew that it was a Stills song, and that the guy's name is Neil Young... what's wrong with this picture :shock:
Randall
01-31-2006, 08:20 AM
Leon,
I understand where you are coming from about investing money in a horn that may not have high resale value.
I bought my CB alto used for $900.00. As you know, this is a Taiwan horn.
At the time this used price was pretty close to what dealers were paying wholesale per alto from Cannonball. (just imagine how much cheaper Cannonball was getting them from Taiwan!!)
So is the horn worth $900.00? Well, it certainly does not have the best fit and finish I have ever seen. The table keys were a little sloppy (got that taken care of), and I had to replace a couple of screws that managed to vibrate out too often.
But the sound! Oh my god, what a sound! To me it is worth 4 or 5 times the price I paid for it, but I will surely never get more than a fraction of what I paid if I were ever retarded enough to sell it. When it comes to this horn, money is not even a factor. I cannot get a sound like that from any other horn except the Yani A9937.
So should you lay out the cash for the PM? If you can wait and pick up one used, then no.
But if you want to get one from Morrys guy and realize you can probably resell it for near that price (since they seem steadily headed upward) should it not be what you are looking for...then yes~ it may be a gamble you would want to take.
Either way, I will be giving my review of this horn as few days after Jason puts my tatoo'd lady it in transit.
deiter1977
01-31-2006, 09:46 AM
Hey everyone,
Now SOTW member and first time poster. I've been reading your forums for some time and, and I appreciate the insight you offer to others and to one another. This has been a great place for me to do a little research before I go try horns.
I've been shopping for a new tenor for about a year now. I've tried most tenors from the big 4, and I thought I was pretty well settled on a Selmer 74F Reference 54. Then last weekend I was at the NAMM Show and tried the P. Mauriat PMXT-66R. I have to say, I'M IN LOVE. For me, it's the best tenor I've ever played.
Morry, you said, "...I think my dealer friend can still get you one for $1895. I'd have to check to be sure." If you would be willing to connect me to this dealer, I'd be very grateful. If anyone knows of any horn shops in the northern California area, including the Bay area, where I can play through a few of the 66R's and pick one out, and where the deals are good, please let me know. Thanks!
Whoa there, I'm only 20 and I knew that it was a Stills song, and that the guy's name is Neil Young... what's wrong with this picture :shock:
HellOOOoo!
When I said that I read somewhere that the lyrics to that song came from a certain "Will Young" that's exactly what I read.
It is not inconcievable that a single or band plays/sings songs written by other songwriters
who are not in the band. They just might even have the same last name as a band member.
I would go so far as to guess that that's probably happened more than once. 8-)
Leon - thanks for giving us some more info. My knee-jerk reaction is..
are you out of your freakin mind?!! :yikes!:
(Cheech and Chong. Japanese Navy high staff planning session on the Pearl Harbour attack.)
:D
If you've got both a B&S and a Mark VI, considering they are both good representatives of their genre, I would have to ask myself the hard question: "Am I such a good player that I've gotten so much out of both of these horns, mined them dry so to speak, that I am going to overcome any deficiencies they have by getting the latest (and good as they might be, that's all they are at the moment), hottest horn on the market (well, if you read SOTW, that is)?"
If the answer is "yes", first my compliments. Next, by all means sell your Mark VI and get the Mauriat.
If the answer is "no", then throw some cold water in your face, take a deep breath, and then go take your Mark VI out of its case and practice for the next five hours. Or
...just forget it and sell one or more of your other horns, get the Mauriat and be satisfied that you're just indulging yourself and that's that.
Please! Somebody!?! Anybody!?! Send him a JK! STAT!!!
Gary - yes, I am out of my mind. Most of us are, when it comes to saxophones, and do we ever sound as good as we want to? The Selmer (at least the Mark VI, the only Selmer I have played) is a real workhorse that serves well in any musical situation, but frankly, I like a little more spread, a little more warmth. Maybe if I practiced five hours a day, I'd get that from the VI, but realistically, I'm probably not going to do that. Those days are past for me. I am not stuck on the Selmer 'core" sound everyone talks about, and in fact kind of prefer the Vintage American sound, and with the extra money saved from selling the VI, I could take my wife to a hotel room in Paris {edited by moderators}. I'm down to playing only on weekends now anyway, and the B&S alone would probably cover most of what I need. So - that is what got me on this kick. That and post traumatic stress disorder from having sold my Borgani Jubilee. (Another story - a great sound, but problematic horn for me).
HOWEVER! I need guys like you to slap me in the face and wake me up and I appreciate it. My wife thinks I am nuts to sell and hates it when I make saxophone changes and she is never wrong. So, just when my mind was made up, along comes Gary with a GAS antidote.
And EZ Sax - everyone is different, but I tried a few Keilwerths and never was especially tempted. Maybe the two or three I tried were not good ones, but most likely it just wasn't for me. I could never find the core sound of these or get the tone centered. Sam Rivers plays here once a week when not on tour - he certainly makes his speak. So, no disrepect to Keilwerth or you.
Hey, Leon. I've got an idea. My Keilwerth is a killin' horn. Absolutely killin'. Let's trade saxes. I'll take your Mark VI and sell it, buy myself a used Medusa, and I'll take your wife to Paris and ... :D
What?! Oh. that's what I thought you'd say.
I'm confused, Gary. We are trading wives, saxophones, or both?
None taken, of course... You 'da man, Lea! If I ever make it your way, I'll bring my horn along, but maybe my wife will have to stay in the car!
Hurling Frootmig
01-31-2006, 03:24 PM
Leon,
Try at Balanced Action or a Super Balanced Action and then try to explain to your wife why you need to sell both of your saxes for an even older one. You should try a modern Couf or new Keilwerth if you really like that vintage american sound but with the benefit of really nice keywork and ergonomics.
Kritavi
01-31-2006, 04:11 PM
Hurling brings up a horn worthy of consideration in the same price range. The Couf Supurba is a great instrument, I bought one new in the 80's and sold it years later for more then I paid. No doubt as to their longevity or desireability.
Good idea, Hurling, but one thing - will YOU please be the one to explain to my wife?
Kritavi - I do like those Superba I tenors. I do recall some challenging intonation idiosyncracies to be overcome, but the one I played was pretty messed up, leaking, unreglulated, etc. They are getting hard to find.
Kritavi
01-31-2006, 05:10 PM
I bought mine to bring to Europe and play rock and roll and blues for drunk people. So I don't remember much about the intonation but I know it got that job done. But there are some threads discussing Coufs here and good ones can still be had for less then a new PM.
tomsch
01-31-2006, 06:37 PM
I traded my back-up Couf SuperbaI for my P. Mauriat and I'm loving it! The Keilwerth/Coufs and Ps are the only horns I've found that give me the sound I'm looking for. I've owned three Selmers (SII and 2 Mk VIs) and they just don't match up to the sound I'm after. As good as my Couf is I've gigged on the P only for the last two months.
Dave Dolson
01-31-2006, 06:56 PM
Dearld Reedy: Welcome to SOTW. I recommend you contact Scimonetti Music in Lancaster, CA. Jim Sr. told me last Thursday that he intends to stock the whole PM line. He was especially impressed with their tenor with the RTH and ordered one as his personal horn. It isn't all that far for you and once his store is stocked (he already has a dazzling display of new saxophones!!), you could probably play away until you find THE horn.
Another source within a reasonable distance (well, a day's drive, but for the huge selection, it would be worth it) would be Dave Kessler's store in Las Vegas, although I don't know if Kessler handles PM horns (he has a huge selection of good stuff, though). DAVE
Randall
01-31-2006, 07:27 PM
Will someone please send Gary a virus and get him off the computer?!:D
Razzy
01-31-2006, 08:11 PM
HellOOOoo!
When I said that I read somewhere that the lyrics to that song came from a certain "Will Young" that's exactly what I read.
It is not inconcievable that a single or band plays/sings songs written by other songwriters
who are not in the band. They just might even have the same last name as a band member.
I would go so far as to guess that that's probably happened more than once. 8-)
Whoa there gary! I'm allowed to find it mildly ironic, this time warp of generations we had for a moment there! :D
deiter1977
02-01-2006, 07:02 AM
Dearld Reedy: Welcome to SOTW. I recommend you contact Scimonetti Music in Lancaster, CA. Jim Sr. told me last Thursday that he intends to stock the whole PM line. He was especially impressed with their tenor with the RTH and ordered one as his personal horn. It isn't all that far for you and once his store is stocked (he already has a dazzling display of new saxophones!!), you could probably play away until you find THE horn.
Another source within a reasonable distance (well, a day's drive, but for the huge selection, it would be worth it) would be Dave Kessler's store in Las Vegas, although I don't know if Kessler handles PM horns (he has a huge selection of good stuff, though). DAVE
Dave Dolson, thanks for the advice. I'm actually already in contact w/ Jim Sr.; we met at the Selmer booth at the NAMM Show a couple weeks ago. He actually directed me accross the aisle to P. Mauriat, for which I'm VERY grateful. I was immediately impressed by their horns. Jim has ordered a pair of PMXT-66R's with the same options; one for him and one for me. However, I haven't yet committed to buy until I try the horn and work out the price.
Scimonetti is about 380 miles (almost 6 hours) from my home, so I was hoping to find a dealer in the bay area that might have equally good selection and service. However, if I don't find one, I certainly have been impressed with Jim's service to date.
Dave Dolson
02-01-2006, 06:39 PM
Dearld: You are welcome. Glad you met Jim Sr. Great guy, source of many good e-mail jokes, and a wonderful player, albeit a bit too modern for me (being a Sidney Bechet and Johnny Dodds fan). His store is worth the effort.
Once you check out what's conveniently available to you, you may think that a 380-mile run isn't so bad, given the inventory available to play. So many stores will have only one example of a model available to try.
Once Scimonetti stocks up on PM's, you may enjoy a large enough selection to make a decent choice rather than settling on one example. True, if that one example plays well, so what? But over the years, I've really had fun trying several examples of the same model - there are huge differences.
Enjoy - and let us know how it shakes out. DAVE
BayviewSax
02-01-2006, 06:49 PM
Referring back to the initial post:
Interestingly, this price increase seems to coincide with the posts Dave Kessler was making regarding his distributor. Is the entire Asian market raising it's prices, or are these horns all coming out of the same address?
I liked most things about the P. soprano I tried (it's horrendous intonation not withstanding), but much of that had to do with the price. For [used] Yami/Yani prices, there's no comparison, I'd take either of those horns first. In fact, at that price, I'd take a chance on a SerieI.
Hurling Frootmig
02-01-2006, 08:12 PM
I've noticed that P. Mauriat is increasing their advertising in most of the jazz magazines I read. I think I've seen ads in Jazz Improv and the Saxophone Journal as well. Ads in downbeat don't come cheap and that may be part of the reason we are seeing the increase. Another part of the reason could be due to demand. Demand is high so why not raise prices and make a little more cash.
I think these are decent horns but I'm sure if they can compete against the Yamaha 62's dollar for dollar.
Like Bose marketing. Real heavy advertising which drives up expectations and price considerably. No laurels to rest like some manufacturers (you know who...), so they have to buy them.
When buying a horn, it's nice to think that your hard-earned (or not so hard-earned) cash is going into R&D, manufacturing, worker payrolls, etc. But marketing is a necessary evil.
Supply and demand. Supply and demand...
MikeCa
02-05-2006, 05:19 AM
Nice comment there, you can get a YTS 62 for about the same price, actually less, it would have way better resale and they are very cool horns for the price!
The Mauriats are way up there IMHO for a Taiwan horn (and I did try a couple at NAMM also, they are good but didn't float my boat). Seemed more like a $1500.00 horn to me, I even tried a couple of Chinese horns that seemed pretty comparable (they aren't quite on the market yet, watch out though they are coming and coming fast).
In the area I am at (Central Valley, Ca.) a lot of guys who are buying the taiwan horns are getting Cannonballs or the Jupiter Artist models (which aren't my favorite and also way up there in price IMHO, these horns honestly should be way cheaper but the co's are controlling the selling price very strictly). I personally would pick the Jupiter out of the three but also like the Unison brand (which can usually be found way cheaper, but distribution has been very spotty lately). You might even want to check out Hollywoodwinds, these horns also seemed to have a similar sound to the Mauriat (But I haven't seen anyone who's actually dealing them yet, still to shake out over the next few months, they are just hitting the market now).
JMHO!
In reality what I'd like to say is get the horn that works and sounds best to you, has great ease of play top to bottom, decent enough intonation and is serviceable.
If you think the Mauriat is worth 2500 then get it, you only have to please yourself in life!
Hope that helps!
Mike
Be careful with whom you associate, Razzy!:D
Funny to see that song pop up. I played it when I was in a Top 40 band in my earliest college days. Yep, I had hair down to my shoulders then (vs not a whole lot except on my chin now) and I was at least two or three inches taller (depending on which platform shoes I was wearing to keep the cuffs of my bell bottom pants from dragging the floor). 8-)
Ah the good ol' days... and the cute lil' groupies in tube tops flashing the band... I miss it all.
Bar-Ron
03-05-2006, 01:19 AM
Someday we are going to have to stop complaining about the good old days of sax manufacturing and admit that this is the future of saxophones. The Orient.
World economics are no different than the old American Market and Europe. the question remains to be seen, will the Taiwanese develop a horn with distinction and rejuvenate the unique and interesting sounds that we search for in our Old favorites.
No doubt they will make better horns as todays Taiwan horns are exceptional compared to 10 yrs ago. Once they discover, or if it becomes important again to have a unique sound that's worth paying for, it will come back.
One must remember though that the loss of popularity of some past horns is exactly the same market pressures today and the same desire to build a better and more profitable horn still is the same forever playing a roll in the direction of saxophone construction and sound.
I have faith that market pressure will advance the sax to a more common level of quality among all the saxes made as it has done with many other things. But I also think that the unique sound of Limited interest sounds that some of us hold dear may be lost, due to the general lack of interest by enough to cause a need............though you can never tell.
When sound becomes a market distinction to sell a horn not just profit margins one may see a change in the current bland French immitation or copy of blah blah blah.
I would think if Taiwanese horns are starting to cost more, then the competition is on.
Jerry K.
03-05-2006, 02:32 AM
I agree that the Asian made horns are improving in leaps and bounds and at the current rate of improvement may very well be in a position to challenge the very best French, German and Japanese horns very soon. They are obviously knocking on that door already! What to do? If I were among the Big 4, I would put all my best efforts (and R&D money) into producing the very best and innovative horns we've ever seen. If they don't focus on innovation, quality, new materials (flutes are available in solid gold, platinum, etc., and fetch in the neighborhood of $40,000) they will in all likelihood be surpassed by Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers in the next ten years. Another thing I wonder about is why are people willing to pay $40,000 for a flute and yet cry for mercy when a saxophone sells for $10,000. I'm not saying I would ever pay $40,000 for a sax but I recently met a flute player that was absolutely prepared to drop $40,000 and was looking at flutes in that rarefied air.
Morry
03-05-2006, 03:23 PM
I'm not saying I would ever pay $40,000 for a sax but I recently met a flute player that was absolutely prepared to drop $40,000 and was looking at flutes in that rarefied air.
And my trumpet playing buddy recently bought a hand made Calicchio, and was complaining that it cost $2000. Apples and oranges, I think.
As all of the children that grew up playing Yamahas instead of Selmers, Kings, Bueschers, etc. mature, I wonder if there will be any interest in other unique sounds.
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