Phil Barone!?

[theoryjunky]

Hey All!

Just wondering if anyone has come across this problem as well. I ordered a Barone piece from wood wind and brass wind back in August of 2005. Basically ever since November I've been getting extension notices. I understand that it takes time for hand-made mouthpieces but I emailed him earlier about wait time and he told me 2 to 3 months. What's the deal? Does he only really keep up buisness with made to order cases? I did it through Wood Wind and Brass Wind because I was worried about something like this, at least with them I know I can get my money back if the piece is damaged or something, or if I decide to cancel. Any advice? I mean I played a NY and it was the greatest mouthpiece ever on tenor. I was so excited about getting one of my own. I'm wondering if I should just think about a Freddie Gregory if Phil doesn't fill his orders soon...

[gary]

I had a similar experience. I ordered a Hollywood sometime last year and waited forever. Finally they said they had mine in and they sent me a used Contemporary which I returned. Finally I gave up and cancelled my order but since doing that I've checked back and to date I haven't seen a Hollywood in stock.

This is my speculation, and only that. If ww&bw sells the mpc's at a discount, Phil couldn't be getting as much from the mpc's ww&bw would be selling as if one buys one from him directly at full retail. Since he makes only a limited number, seemingly on order, it's probable that his priority is for orders directly placed to him and it also seems that he only keeps up with that demand; i.e. he doesn't have a bunch of extra pieces laying around to send off to ww&bw.

Furthermore, he recently posted that he has been having some health problems which has slowed him down.

At this point it seems to me that if I want a Hollywood I either need to find a used one, looking in the usual places (where they almost never show up) or order one directly from him with no return policy and at full retail, and these are conditions I am unable to accomodate. I would guess your options are similar.

[theoryjunky]

Yeah I have heard from people that he was having health issues. That's very unfortunate, I guess I'm just really frustrated about playing one of those pieces and now having to try to winning a bidding war on ebay if I ever hope to get one. I was just wondering if anyone was successful by ordering through wwbw or not...

[tomsch]

I too ordered a Barone back on August and still waiting. WWBW sends updates but the date continues to push. One more week and I'm cancelling too.

[BayviewSax]

What is it about mouthpiece guys and their health? I'm only half kidding here... Off the top of my head I can name three mouthpiece specialists with health problems. Weird.

[Morry]

WW&BW almost never stocks the Barone pieces. They are pretty much made to order, but probably only when Phil has multiple orders for the same piece. Keep checking here and on ebay. They ocassionally come up for sale.

[xuanvu]

I had similiar experience... I ordered a Contemporary soprano piece from him since last April... After about 6 months, he emailed me saying that it won't be finished within another 4-5 months and promptly refund the money.

Kenny.

[Chris S]

Just wait... I've seen Phil come here with some necks, and, I kid you not, within a few hours of his first post... they're all gone. And we're talking in the neighborhood of $300-600 for a neck.

Just means you gotta keep checking SOTW pretty regularly ;)

Chris S

[Razzy]

What is it about mouthpiece guys and their health? I'm only half kidding here... Off the top of my head I can name three mouthpiece specialists with health problems. Weird.

A lot of them are older, so that's a big factor... another one is that this is high stress work, and many fine, hazardous particles fly off into the air and can get stuck in your system quite easily.

[Grumps]

Perhaps ripe for a feature on Discovery Channel's Worlds Most Dangerous Jobs...

[Ruediger Kramer]

Hey All!

Just wondering if anyone has come across this problem as well. I ordered a Barone piece from wood wind and brass wind back in August of 2005. Basically ever since November I've been getting extension notices. I understand that it takes time for hand-made mouthpieces but I emailed him earlier about wait time and he told me 2 to 3 months. What's the deal? Does he only really keep up buisness with made to order cases? I did it through Wood Wind and Brass Wind because I was worried about something like this, at least with them I know I can get my money back if the piece is damaged or something, or if I decide to cancel. Any advice? I mean I played a NY and it was the greatest mouthpiece ever on tenor. I was so excited about getting one of my own. I'm wondering if I should just think about a Freddie Gregory if Phil doesn't fill his orders soon...

Barone tried to sell his mouthpieces at my "Guardalas or copies?"-thread...

[saxfreak]

Delays on orders from WWBW are not limited to Barone mouthpieces. I ordered a reed soaker and the ATG reed finishing system through WWBW (along with other items). I received a partial shipment, and the items not included had a notice of a delay. This notice was extended over and over, to the point where I was curious about how long it would actually take to receive the items. The reed soaker and ATG system arrived separately, almost a year after ordering. I thought it was a long time to wait for those items. If I order from WWBW in the future, I'll cancel the order for items that aren't shipped right away.
Regarding the Barone mouthpiece situation, it would be nice to know up front what is and what isn't in stock at WWBW, since estimates of the length of delay are apparently wild guesses. If Phil is in poor health, that is a shame - I have several of his pieces and I've always been impressed with his products.

[theoryjunky]

Anyone have any input on Ponzols then? I mean as far as comparison to Barones. I'm well aware of the fact that your whole setup and technique is what shapes your sound but I think I've taken my Link as far as it's gonna get me. I'm looking for a more modern sound like Bergonzi, Potter, you know. I'm not trying to be a Brecker clone just something more modern.

I was reading about some of the ponzols but it seems like just regular salesman lines, it really tells me nothing.

[Morry]

Anyone have any input on Ponzols then? I mean as far as comparison to Barones. I'm well aware of the fact that your whole setup and technique is what shapes your sound but I think I've taken my Link as far as it's gonna get me. I'm looking for a more modern sound like Bergonzi, Potter, you know. I'm not trying to be a Brecker clone just something more modern.

I was reading about some of the ponzols but it seems like just regular salesman lines, it really tells me nothing.

If you like a Link STM sound, but want more guts to it, then the Barone Jazz is a great piece. The Ponzol ii-v-i is good too, though it is a little more "refined" sounding. It also has a longer facing curve, if I remember correctly. There are other Ponzols that are brighter and have more projection, but I don't have any experience with them. The one I had was very well made.

[theoryjunky]

Well I remember falling in love with the NY Barone because it had a really fat sound but still ripped in the high end. But I tried some Berg Larsens with baffles and it seemed that I got a really shrill tone. I mean it projected like mad but I think I sacrificed a lot of meat in my tone for something that cuts... I'd be satisfied with less projection for a more modern tone to tell you the truth...

thanks for the info so far...

[Ol' Mpc Doc]

I'm looking for a more modern sound like Bergonzi, Potter, you know.

Both Bergonzi and Potter play Links.......

[theoryjunky]

Really what models? I'm playing this "Tone Master" I grabbed at a music store I was working at when it got bought out. They were selling everything dirt cheap so I just bought it really without playing it much. Hasn't been awful but it's not exactly what I want....

[saxmanjack]

A more modern sound without sounding shrill? Have you tried a JodyJazz ESP? Personally, I didn't like the whole "spoiler" idea, and would have preferred that the baffle was in-between where it was with and without the spoiler, but he's got some new models out. Best-made metal piece I've ever seen, though...

[KeithL]

I always call ww&bw to place orders and just don't order anything that isn't in stock.

[Grumps]

In regard to Ponzols, they are very well made pieces. I bought a bunch of them years ago at a MARS going out of business sale and used them regularly for a time (then used them to bankroll years of frenzied mouthpiece trading). I also found the ii-v-i to be an excellent mouthpiece; but very dark and lacking in bite and projection. I used it for a while playing Dixieland. Probably the prize of the Ponzol line is the M2 (and just the plain M2, not the + or the small, or whatever they've done to it). A lot of folks were really digging that piece a couple years ago, and although it's supposed to be bright, I found it most versatile. You don't see them on the trading block too often either.

[JL]

I'll second what Grumps says about the Ponzol M2. It has all the volume and cut you'd ever need, but still has a rich tone and plenty of "body." I've since moved on to an RPC, but still like the Ponzol. Hey, Grumps I think we have similar tastes in mpcs......aren't you playing an RPC now?

Regarding Barone mpcs, I haven't tried one, but from what I hear, I'm sure I could find one I'd like (if I was still on a mpc search, which I'm not). I do know Phil's mpcs are hand finished, which takes time, which is undoubtedly well worth it, and I'm pretty sure the way to get a killer mpc is to get one that's hand finished. Or send one to a reputable mpc artist. For those who don't have the patience to wait on a Barone mpc, or an RPC, or whatever, I'd say "good things come to those who can wait." I realize there's a limit, though. Cheers.

[gary]

I tried several M2's and they weren't all the same. The one out of four that I liked played really well. The sound was just a bit too bright to me so I've been playing a M1, which still has some brightness and I am heard easily in an electronic band but it has a bit more body for me.

[Grumps]

I've since moved on to an RPC, but still like the Ponzol. Hey, Grumps I think we have similar tastes in mpcs......aren't you playing an RPC now?

Yup, after about three years of buying/trading/selling and trying just about all that's out there (and having lost my taste for metal), I'm on RPC for tenor, alto and bari. Seems more and more folks are ending up on our end of the street these days.

[JL]

Yup, after about three years of buying/trading/selling and trying just about all that's out there (and having lost my taste for metal), I'm on RPC for tenor, alto and bari. Seems more and more folks are ending up on our end of the street these days.

Yeah, I'm probably going to order another RPC......if something happened to this one, I'd be devastated, since none of my other mpcs could really replace it (including the Ponzol). But to tie this into the Barone topic, my point is that hand finishing may be a very important ingrediant to a great mpc. The RPC is the only hand finished mpc I've played, so maybe that's the difference?

[Phil Barone]

Sorry everyone, I had a series of things happen that put me in the place I am today. I had three seperate but all serious health problems in a three year period. I had to move twice because of financial problems resulting from my body falling apart so that just made matters worse. Right now I'm finishing some orders I have directly from customers then I will just be taking the Woodwind & Brasswind orders. Sadly, the Jazz and Hollywood models are the absolute best they've ever been after I made some changes to the mold. I mean they're out of this world, not of my doing but it was sort of an accident. For those of you looking for tenor pieces, I still think the best tyhing out there is a metal Link although you have to find a good one and then use the correct reeds. Rico Jazz Select. If you want traditional jazz pieces, I always have the hard rubber pieces I make. Phil

[10mfan]

1. To answer an earlier question about what Links Bergonzi uses...he likes the vintage hard rubber early babbitts and Slant Sigs the best. (I've traded him many of each!) He likes a real dark sound with power. He told me his band was so loud that he always has me looking for these pieces with alot of power for him....but not the brightness. You may not believe this, but he also plays occasionally on a stock hard rubber Link he found at the Otto Link factory.
2. Doc Tenney added the info that Bergonzi plays the Links, and I just want to put in a plug for Doc and his fantastic work! Need a reface or much more for your mpc???...get in touch with Doc! He's a master mpc man and very thorough....not to mention that he really cares about the work he does, and it shows.
3. Also, I'd like to add that I have dealt with Phil, and he's a great guy and makes incredibly good pieces that don't cost an arm and a leg. I bought an 8 Ny Meyer Killer alto piece from him for about $100. He made it to my specs and was easy to work with! WWBW seems to be behind in shipping ALOT of their stuff out.
Mark
10mfan