how important is it to have sax lessons ?

[pepper]

i've been playing for about two years now, and am relatively happy with where i am, but like everyone, am always looking to improve. i had a few lessons when i started, but stopped when money got tight.

i've learnt music theory from books and from playing keyboard, and theres a lot to be picked up from a site like this.

just wondering how much value people put on having regular lessons.

[colibri]

How far are you wanting to go with the saxophone?
If you just want it to be your hobby, self taught should be fine. But of course, you'll run into obstacles and that's when a teacher would come in handy. If you want to go pro with it, definitely try to get a good teacher. Eventually you'll want to be enrolled in a college, get at least a diploma and hook up with other players for any possible gigs.

[Mike Ruhl]

There's great value in private lessons, if you find a good teacher. Private lessons are when you learn how to play the saxophone. Reading books about theory and chatting about playing are not the same thing as sitting down with an assigned lesson and your horn and working on your technique. If you can afford regular lessons and can find a good teacher, take lessons.

[jazzbluescat]

I think private lessons are important from the onset/gitgo; even if you have hobby in mind. A good teacher will teach you how to play correctly, thereby overcoming obstacles, you'll most likely advance more quickly by your knowing the correct way to play, also. It'll give you a better and knowledgeable perspective from which to make any decisions about the future.

[WindMusician81]

When I first started on sax, I figured with my experiance on piano, and clarinet, I really didn't need to take lessons, but eventually, my band leader asked me to stop by his place to go over a solo a few times with him. It didn't take long for him to start pointing out little things I could change, and I was soon paying him for private lessons.

I've improved a lot on my own since then, and had to stop taking lessons when I went off to college because I simply didn't have the time. Now, working full time I still hardly have a minute to spare, if it looks like I'll be able to squeeze another hour out of my week in the near futur, I'll most certainly start taking lessons again.

[RaZaDAM]

Even Michael Brecker takes sax lessons, and he's a pro.

Adam.

[Tenorsaxer]

I feel that lessons are essential. If you only want the sax as a hobby for yourself though, and dont wanna pay for lessons, just play out of books.

[Razzy]

I also find lessons to be essential. It's important that you find a teacher with a good reputation and who knows what they are doing.

[StevoJazz]

Lesson=Good Playing
Good Playing=Gigs
Gigs=Money
Money=New Saxophone
New Saxophone=Better Playing
Better Playing=Better Gigs
Better Gigs=More Money
..
..
..
..
..
Need I Continue?

[hannibal]

Agree that lessons are important. But just remember a great player is not necessarily a great (or even adequate) teacher.

I once managed to get a local pro to give me lessons. His playing was superb and he took lessons from Sonny Stitt back in the early 60's. Problem was he couldn't explain why he played what he did or anything close. I was awed by him and priveldeged to have him standing in my living room for an hour every week, but to be honest I didn't learn much and we both frustrated each other.

We finally gave up and I then took lessons from a guy fresh out of a music conservatory. I guess it was because he explained things in an academic way that I'm used to that I really learned heaps from this young cat, even though his playing wasn't overly amazing.

My theory: chose a sax teacher like you chose a psychotherapist. Make sure they're qualified to do the job and have a personality/style that will suit you both. Otherwise you may spends heaps of dosh on very little progress.

[Jon B. Bop]

The difference in playing the sax, and playing well, is in the details.
Tone, fingering technique, dynamics, et. al. when improved slightly, greatly improve your playing. I think it is a rare individual who can work to improve these things effectively on their own.

A quality teacher (accent on quality) can measure your ability and improvement in your technique, show you ways to improve, and help you focus your practice to maximize your results.

If money is the issue, go less often, but by all means, work with a teacher. (IMHO)

[singlereed]

If you can, try and manage your own learning, don't just sit there and do what the teacher says and nothing else. By that I mean, listen to music, buy sheet music to play, and set yourself goals constantly - I told my teacher at the outset I wanted to play Milhaud's 'Scaramouche'. A good teacher can help you meet your targets and also keep you challenged and on your toes - we can all get a bit self-satisfied with our playing even when there are serious flaws.

You may go through seasons with different teachers - I have had four different regular teachers and at the moment am very happy with the one I have - unfortunately my last teacher who was also superb moved away, but this one has worked on some new aspects of my playing that I hadn't looked at before.

By preference, I would look for one who has studied sax at music college as their first instrument, and who also does at least some playing for a living as well as teaching. That is not to say there are not some fine self-taught unqualified teachers, but first of all, I'd look for someone who is qualified.

[Peterk]

Depending where you're at, your teacher doesn't even have to be a sax player. Best teacher I ever had was a guitarist - I was taking improv lessons with him. He couldn't help me directly with technique on the instrument (I did flute and sax under him), yet he did manage to guide me to find the solutions myself. But he got me started on ear training, boice, piano and improv and he showed me how to practice efficiently (the most important thing I ever learned from any of the dozens of teachers I've ever had) and internalize.

He was also the first guy who told me point-blank that if I didn't memorize my basic scales and internalize them 100%, then I was going nowhere in jazz. Took me two weeks to learn all the major scales for the first time in my life (age 31) after that. It's amazing how many profs are content to let a student be lazy and not really learn the basics and essentials cold.

Not taking lessons any more, but I'm still practicing the way he made me practice and I'm still working on the stuff he gave me 2-3 years ago.

[freeman]

if i may carry on with the topic, could u guys give me some specific pointers on what i should look out for in a good sax teacher (besides the academic qualifications and the 'playing for a living' thing)? Thanks.

[werkinsnake]

I have to agree with Hannible. Great players sometimes do not make good teachers. I have looked at many popular series of books that teach Jazz Improvision. These books are usually made by some saxophonist with a Bachlors degree, and no doubt that they are good players. The problem with these books is that they do a poor job at teaching the basics. In other words, Dr. (Fill in Generic Name here) from the (Insert name of big city) Orchestra cannot "dumb down" music theory so that the average 8th grader can understand what he is talking about. When I was younger, I bought these books and now they sit around and collect dust. Most of these books have a glossary of musical terms, and the definitions bring up more questions than they do answers. In all honesty, I am a self taught player, and I have held my own against some of the best players in my state. Looking back now, sometimes I wish I would have taken lessons early on to prevent myself from making mistakes that I now know many (most of the high school level saxophonist world) other saxophonists make. On the other hand, if I had been taught all of these mistakes early on, I probably would not be as good at teaching the saxophone as I am now. The saxophone is probably the most straight forward of all instruments to learn. And music theory is not as difficult to understand as most teachers want you to think. Actually it's quite simple. The trick is to find a book designed for nearly anyone to pickup and understand. This is why (until an easy to understand guide to the saxophone is published) hands on lessons are so important.

[Jon B. Bop]

Freeman,
I think it's important to find someone who is known for teaching, not playing. (although he/she can be a great player too)

Get references from other musicians or past students. I went to the head of the jazz program at a local college, and he put me in touch with people, who lead me to others etc.

Also, if you don't feel a connection with the teacher after the first few lessons, don't be afraid to try someone else. The personal connection is an improtant factor IMHO.

[Vortex]

My theory: chose a sax teacher like you chose a psychotherapist. Make sure they're qualified to do the job and have a personality/style that will suit you both. Otherwise you may spends heaps of dosh on very little progress.

I agree totally. Make sure your personalities are very similar and that you can really bounce off one another. I've applied this to martial arts in numerous cases. For example, at the Taekwondo school where I take lessons (and teach, as well) there's only one guy (out of several) with whom I actually take lessons regularly, most often with just one or two other people in my class. But together we create such a vibe that the hour long class gets really invigorating, and I learn things both about Taekwondo and myself that I wouldn't get with anyone else.

[usda]

My last sax lesson was with an old gizzer in his hotel room. He listened for about 2 minutes to my playing and told me to cut it out.

I was 16 and had developed, what I thought was a cool vibrato.....he put me on long tones...best thing for me, at that time.

I have taken up sax after a long 43 year break and playing far past the peak I did as a kid...but now, lessons belong to my son, not me...Not enough dough for both. Yet we found another old gizzer who is the best recommended keyboard player in town. He thinks that it is fine if I set in on the lessons...Wink, Wink... :wink:

We met him, listened to his amazing playing and his equally amazing eposition of theory...I think He is the best bet for my guitarest son and myself. We both are weak in theory...and here is this old jazz pianist and closet drummer...loaded with experience and the hows and whys....so we're buying a Roland full keyboard and both of us are excited at our prospects.

I told my son, we're stopping and buying the old dude a bunch of red flowers for our first lesson. A teacher is a guru...and a good one is God's gift to those with aspirations. These gifted ones can be found with a little trouble in every community. Their knowledge and experience should not die with them.

[saxysai]

If money is an issue with taking lessons...contact your local college. Most college's music majors teach private lessons on the side (I personally have about 6 students right now), and generally charge less.

[usda]

Thanks for the tip Saxysai,, I will take that idea and make a call.

[Tissot]

taking sax lessons ( and all other music lessons) is not just learning "how to play the saxophone".

to me, a good private teacher will lead you the way to have a good "musicanship". This is including how to deal with difficuilty in learning music, how to encourge yourself when problems arrived, how to look things in a matured manner, and how to build up your confidence etc.

a good private teacher should always teach students how to listen to tunes, and how to analys other good players. :)

[potatosax]

hi there all!
only quite recently found this site and its proved pretty invaluable as an info forum! you can pretty much find out anything!
one prob ive found however,is-having played purely by ear for 5 years regularly,is finding a sax teacher to take me further by teaching me little tricks etc.
they all insist that i learn to read music.i am finding my own style and trying to emulate my fave players,coming up with my own tone and sound and loving it!
it feels much freer than the constraints that written music seem to have. i am no great player,but know my keys and scales and play to my hearts content.
i think if you have a passion in you and the basic knowledge, you can make some pretty amazing sounds and in time,you do develop that sound that is all your own!!

keep blowing dudes! my theory is -dont think about it too much,and it flows out(inexperienced,but works for me) .above all,enjoy it!!

[Grey]

Music teachers are really important. They provide you with someone to look up to and try to emulate. They can also help you if you have any questions. Get one!

it feels much freer than the constraints that written music seem to have. i am no great player,but know my keys and scales and play to my hearts content.
i think if you have a passion in you and the basic knowledge, you can make some pretty amazing sounds and in time,you do develop that sound that is all your own!!

keep blowing dudes! my theory is -dont think about it too much,and it flows out(inexperienced,but works for me) .above all,enjoy it!!

Exactly what I have found! People who learn too much theory all sound the same.

[Razzy]

Grey, that's because they all learn the same stuff in the same ways!

The best thing you can do is to realize that what a good teacher gives you are the tools to success. How to play the saxophone, and how to become a great musician. It's up to YOU to become a great musician! A lof of guys sound like they have the same ideas because they only took their studies so far, didn't go all out and get creative with their practicing. This is essential!

[Tim Price]

Pedagogical goes so far, but these days...it's obivious who's got "street experience" and who does not. It's the way things are today.This music is not easy, you must play it as much as possible and grow within the art form. Sitting home playing w/Aebersold is ok- but the communication aspect lacks bad then. Ya gotta play and put material to use. This is where pedagogical and REALITY based education meet for me.

As much as I studied...with Mariano, Viola or Andy McGhee..I had to session,sit-in and "walk the walk" to get my material and ideas in order.Many of us from my generation...had the good fortune....to be able to " sit-in" with Sonny Stitt...jam with Larry Coryell or James Moody at someones apartment when they were in Boston at the " Jazz Workshop" on Boylston St. I never realized HOW LUCKY I was...to have guys actually come to our apartments or rehearsal spots at Berklee like Arnie Lawrence,Joe Henderson, or Ron McLure. It was a blessing for most of us 19 year olds in 1970. our teachers at Berklee also played with us ALL THE TIME in ensembles and at sessions.That has become something I truly appreciated as I got older and realized...the impact it had on me. This in it's own way helped me understand the difference between being an artist and a craftsman,a craftsman can reproduce at least several manifestations of the art on demand,the artist goes beyond craft into realms of feeling and expression.

On a surface level, a teacher imparts tools and techniques. But in an art form it goes deeper. The teacher is an important source of inspiration and motivation towards the student’s ability to form his own personal mode of expression. In essence a student learns in order to find himself. At the same time a good teacher provides the spark for a student’s desire to learn and at the same time instilling creativity and imagination.

As a teacher I always encourage experimentation and creativity by promoting an atmosphere where mistakes and questions are encouraged. Students should feel that they themselves are a work in progress, that the process of learning is open ended and like everything in life, not perfect. To be flexible and take chances is important, possibly more so than being one hundred percent correct.If a student’s work is honest and done with real integrity and effort, being “right” is NOT always the most important thing.Freedom of expression is vital,but on an individual level jazz reinforces the notion that what an individual has to say is valid and meaningful, that the student has worked on the subject and is ready to use it.

A good teacher demonstrates, inspires.Teaching usually implies good learning.It offers a chance for a teacher to present his thoughts/experience/concepts verbally towards specific musical points.

[brassnaked]

Tim is my instructor and I couldn't agree with him more!
Whether you're a late bloomer like myself, or a lifelong player from high school, etc, the "right" instructor can not only impart nuances of tone & technique you would NOT gather on your own, but will also inspire you to actually begin to realize: " WOW, I am playing sax and you know what? I don't sound too bad!!!" Then when your instructor reinforces that, you realize the true value of a great teacher!

[Razzy]

Damn good words, Tim. You put it really well. I'm also really thankful to have a teacher that encourages this and jams with me whenever we can get the chance. Creative inspiration is a good thing to have and I'm also glad I was able to work my craft to the point that I can start doing those things and feel like I have a lot of freedom in which to work. With Frank, I get a great foundation in both the craft AND the art, and we connect on a personal level... it's a beautiful thing!