Bubblegirl: Update, oboe and clarinet question

[bubblegirlsax]

Hi all,

I've been off investigating instruments and have so far bought a tin whistle, plastic fife, and three recorders. My xaphoon turns up next month.

But still I've been looking around for a new instrument. I've found a maker who'll make me a flute from silver and plastic with special plastic pads, but am yet to try fife. Somehow I think a reed instrument would be better.

I found an oboe, which has ABS resin body, silver keys, and cork and felt key pads. Much safer option. It could take a steady soaking without too much damage done. What I want to know is, how hard are they to blow? Some say very. I can get steady notes from a clarinet if that's any basis of comparison.

Clarinet could be suitable for me. They're made of plastic, aren't they? I did try it but found the different fingerings confusing. I really want something similar to the recorder/sax fingerings. The oboe sounds like my best bet right now because it already has low-allergy parts for me. It may cost a few grand, but so would a specially-made flute.


Any ideas? Do they make clarinets in sax-type fingerings?


S.

[Dave Dolson]

Bubblegirl: Clarinets can be made in a variety of materials . . . metal (brass or silver), wood, plastic, hard-rubber, are some of the materials I know of.

I think there are clarinets with covered tone holes, but not saxophone fingerings. Yes, clarinets have a more difficult scale (the lower register is different from the middle register unlike saxophones) but they can be mastered like anything else. And, there are different sytems involved, the most popular being Boehm System. others are Albert (aka Simple System and German System) and Oehler (an enhanced version of Albert).

Oboes are what are known as double-reed instruments (oboe, English horn, basson, sarrousophone are in the family). They probably aren't any more difficult than a single reed, just different. Good luck in your quest. DAVE

[JPSaxMan]

And my best question is why would a question like this be posted in the alto forum? :?

[bubblegirlsax]

Because I want to hear from other people who've had alto alto sax experience to let me know how they've attempted or played oboe. Many people double and I wanted to hear from altos specifically because that's where I've had experience.

S.

[bpimentel]

Bubblegirl,

I've found your posts in search of an instrument intriguing.

Based on what I've read, I think you may be on to something with the tinwhistles and recorders.

High-quality plastic recorders, like those from Aulos or the Yamaha 300 series, are very fine instruments, quite cheap, and play better than all but the most expensive wooden recorders. And despite the recorder's association with classrooms full of squawking eight-year-olds, the recorder has a noble history and rich repertoire. (There's info on my website: www.geocities.com/bpimentel/articles/recorder.htm)

Tinwhistles (or "pennywhistles") are available in many different materials (rarely tin). Susato makes very good and relatively inexpensive ones in ABS plastic (I do find that purists tend to scoff at these--until they hear them). Anyone interested in these instruments and their role in Irish traditional music should definitely check out www.chiffandfipple.com for an informative and highly entertaining read. (My thoughts at www.geocities.com/bpimentel/articles/tinwhistle.htm)

I have a Yamaha plastic fife that I find disappointing.

A Xaphoon with a plastic reed might be workable. I haven't played one by that maker, but I have played some similar instruments, all of which seem to do best with a very soft reed.

Good luck!
Bret

[SAXISMYAXE]

The response and tone of plastic fifes (and the cheap, Cooper maple fifes most buy to begin learning with) can be greatly improved by undercutting the tone hole and finger holes, as most plastic fife bodies are way to think walled in these areas. If you are handy with such tasks, this can be achieved with careful application of a Dremel tool and a round burr bit at a SLOW speed to avoid melting the plastic.
Just thought I'd share this, now back to the original topic.

[bubblegirlsax]

I'm not handy with a dremel. The Yamaha was just a cheap little instrument I can learn on before moving to another instrument. If I do really well, there's a guy who will make me a flute from plastic and silver for $3,000. I'm just thinking ahead in case flute isn't for me, and that reeds are more my forte.

At least with Oboe I have choice on a plastic body when I couldn't with sax. Plus the pads and keys are from more suitable materials. But if I can't get a plastic oboe reed (plastic coat or full plastic), then I'm a little stuck. They do make them - what is the problem with them? Bad sound or difficulty getting it to vibrate?

[bubblegirlsax]

The tin whistle looks quite good. It's just gone into soaking so I can't try it until next week. As I try the instruments I'll be sure to put some sound files on my webpage for people to have a listen. Some rock music, right? :)

The tenor recorder looks pretty cool too. Huge! It even comes with a neck strap!

It was sad I couldn't keep the vinyl cases. We're going to soak them and see, but more than likely, Mum will tell me they still stink and have to go. I'm thinking of getting another cool cotton bag to tote my instruments around the house :)


S.

[bpimentel]

About plastic oboe reeds:
Bad sound or difficulty getting it to vibrate?

Yes, both.

[bubblegirlsax]

About plastic oboe reeds:


Yes, both.

Oh. What about the plastic coated reeds? Are they the same as the completely plastic?

[Jazzy saxxer 4]

I'm thinking that if you can play as many instruments as you do then whatever instrument you choose to learn you will do fine with. :) I play alto sax and oboe (and bari sax, violin, clarinet, and English horn). I actually played oboe before the sax and my opinion is the sax is easier with the exception of a few things, like altissimo notes. It might be hard for you to blow into at first and get a sound. When I first started the oboe way back when I remember trying to blow through JUST THE REED for 1/2 an hour until I could get a sound, and I'd played clarinet before that, too, so although it may be slow to start, it'll get better. For the oboe, intonation could give you some problems at first--you've GOT to have a good ear if you're gonna play oboe, and the whole breathing thing can be tricky for the oboe because whereas for the sax you blow out and then need more air so you breathe in again, for the oboe you take in a breath but by the time you have to breathe again, you still have leftover air so when you breathe, you've got to breathe in, and then out. Make any sense? Sorry, I can't come up w/ a better way to explain it. Also, although fingerings are relatively similar, they can be more complex on the oboe. ...My opinion on reeds: I don't like the synthetic/ plastic ones or store-bought kind because the tone just isn't as good, but to be fair I know a few people that play on them and get a decent sound. But for me, I make my own reeds so I can get em exactly how I want. On the bright side the plastic ones should last longer. And you seem like the kind of person who will make the best out of your situation, so if you decide to play oboe, it is an AWESOME instrument and I think you'd have a lot of fun w/ it. BEst of luck, -SG 8-)
PS. Sorry for the long post. Hope this can help you out.

[bpimentel]

Oh. What about the plastic coated reeds? Are they the same as the completely plastic?

I'm not aware of any such thing as plastic-coated oboe reeds. The tips of oboe reeds are VERY thin, best measured in hundredths of a millimeter, so plastic coating on a cane reed would probably make it much too thick.

[SAXISMYAXE]

Hi Jazzy Saxxer,
Just to fill you in on the background:
At the heart of Bubblegirlsax's dilemma is the fact that she has acute, life threatening allergies that make it necessary for her to seek out instruments that can be made of materials that don't trigger an adverse reaction. This is why she is unable to take up the sax at this time and is seeking alternatives. Cheers.

[richardc7167]

I recently switched from oboe to saxophone. Perhaps my reverse evolution experience will help in your oboe decision.

I picked up my first oboe in an Anchorage pawn shop during a long winter surveying power lines. I was 30 years old. During the next 20 years I taught myself to play tunes to entertain the children in the various different countries where I have worked. I am not a musician by any means, just someone who loves music and can’t sing. The oboe has a compelling, haunting tone that is very unique.

My oboe is resin, an expensive wood oboe purchased later cracked because of the drastic climatic changes required by my profession. The resin oboe plays wonderfully and almost never needs professional adjustment.

The fingering is slightly different from the saxophone. However, switching instruments was not too difficult. I rate the oboe as just slightly more difficult. The octave transition to D is a little tricky.

Embrasure takes some adjustment. The oboe is all lips with no teeth. A weak embrasure results in sounds that are terrifying to dogs and cats.

The reason I switched to saxophone was reeds. Since there is no mouthpiece, the double reed is very important. I am not a professional so I do not make my own reeds. Store purchased reeds are expensive and only one in five reeds play well. When I say plays well, I mean no horrible screeching. I tried synthetic reeds but they were almost unplayable. That was 10 years ago, industry advancements may have produced something better. I was forced to start messing with the reeds; scraping, trimming etc. My reed investigations indicated that most adult oboe players make and/or adjust their own reeds.

The end result had me often playing on an inferior reed that sometimes squeaked and howled. My wife finally threatened to leave unless I switched to the saxophone. So I did.

I now play an 85 year old C melody saxophone. I use the same music and play the same tunes. It was an easy transition.

[jaysne]

I found an oboe, which has ABS resin body, silver keys, and cork and felt key pads. Much safer option. It could take a steady soaking without too much damage done. What I want to know is, how hard are they to blow? Some say very. I can get steady notes from a clarinet if that's any basis of comparison.
Oboe is extremely hard to blow, especially when you compare it to a clarinet. You build up intense back pressure because you are blowing into an extremely small hole that offers up terrific resistance. Most oboe players have to develop the technique of blowing out CO2, and then taking in a breath of oxygen. If you have a head cold, you will find the oboe extremely uncomfortable to play.

Clarinet could be suitable for me. They're made of plastic, aren't they? I did try it but found the different fingerings confusing. I really want something similar to the recorder/sax fingerings. The oboe sounds like my best bet right now because it already has low-allergy parts for me. It may cost a few grand, but so would a specially-made flute. Any ideas? Do they make clarinets in sax-type fingerings?
These days clarinets are made of plastic and wood, and used to be made of metal. The fingerings in the mid-upper register are almost identical to sax. They do not make clarinets with sax fingerings, although you can get plateau clarinets--meaning they have covered keys like sax instead of rings. If you want to play clarinet, then study it--the fingerings start to get easy after a while.

The instrument with the fingerings closest to that of the recorder is definitely oboe.