When to use alternate fingering the proper way?

[MrZ]

Hi,

Recently I've been practising exercise dealing with C# major scales.
I found out that in this key, certain phrases it is easier to play the typical A#, C, F# sometime the side mentioned key is easier. The problem is, it always need to figure out the exercise before attempting. Are the any rules when to use them? & how the pro normally apply the side keys?

Thanks in advance :wink:

[Big Nick]

There are no 'rules' about anything in sax playing. Everybody does what suits them best.
Regarding side keys, this is roughly what I do:

F# - chromatic bits; F-F# trills (although must be avoided if F# is followed by a D or D#)
A# - chromatic again; if you need a smooth Bb to C or vice-versa; A -Bb trills.
C - chromatic; B-C trills or any B-C-B movement.

You always have to look ahead when reading music and decide which fingering is going to work best. If you think that's bad, try playing clarinet - which little finger 4 or 5 notes in advance?! :?

[singlereed]

One reason to practise scales and studies in particular keys is to get smooth movement so it becomes 'unconscious'. I am always looking to reduce finger movement and get smooth articulation, and this means using (for example) all fingerings for A#/Bb, choosing palm key notes or 'front F' for the E/F/F#. For grace notes and trills, sometimes I use an improvised fingering - e.g. add palm key Eb to C2 to get a D2 - though the tuning and quality does vary between the sizes of sax and the even the model. There are no definite rules, although you have probably found long Bb/A# and front F useful in your arpeggios, and the Bis (button) Bb/A# is useful when you do not also have to use B natural (Cb). Sorry, I am waffling, basically, its worth trying things out and making sure you are as comfortable as you can be with all the different fingerings.

[ralph lh]

I'm with the others, there is no specific rule for using alternate fingerings. But, I have found it quite amazing that people that have played for a number of years don't know all the alternate fingerings.

There are times when it will be much easier using a different fingering for specific runs, such as up and back from the F#. One thing that I have seen is that there is waaaaay too much use of the bis key for Bb. This can be very awkward at times but I have encountered players that don't know there are 5 different ways to get the Bb. As long as you know the alternate fingerings you can pick what works.

However, it is also important to know that there is a different 'sound' to these fingerings. If you hit a sustained note, some alternate fingerings won't sound good on your horn but when done in a quick run, it's too fast for a listener to hear the difference.

Become familiar with all the alternate fingerings on YOUR horn so you know the sound and then you'll be able to choose the 'best' fingering for the situation.

[Vader]

F# - chromatic bits; F-F# trills (although must be avoided if F# is followed by a D or D#)


Truer words have never been spoken. That can get ugly real fast.

[Stencilman]

One thing that I have seen is that there is waaaaay too much use of the bis key for Bb.

I've recently attempted to get out of some bad habits learned over the last 30 years of playing and one of them is the overuse of bis Bb. When I first started playing sax, I adopted the bis key as my primary fingering for Bb and it has been a killer to "unlearn" it. My compromise is to use bis Bb only in fast moving lines where there is no B natural, but I still use it. This fingering tends to be very sharp on all of my current horns so switching to the other fingerings has become a necessity when Bb is anything but a passing note.

[MS]

In the Larry Teal "Art of Saxophone Playing", Teal makes several suggestions for alternate fingering use. A couple of basic suggestions are:

Chromatic fingering for B to C to B (trills)
B to C to C#
C# to C to B
F to F# to G
G to F# to F
Side Bb as standard sight reading and chromatic fingering.
! / 4 for Bb arpeggios
1 / 5 for F# arpeggios
Bis for Eb arpeggios
From there it's a matter of balancing hands and what note comes before and after. Habit (learned muscle reflex memory) in the use of only one fingering in all cases (especially Bis Bb) may not have been the best choice at the end of a players career. Easier to develop facility with various fingering options as a youngster. At my age, the brain is willing but the fingers sometimes have a mind of their own. I started with 1 / 4 as basic, then went to Bis as basic. To get in the side Bb habit was a chore. At age 57, I'm pretty comfortable with all five fingerings now ( and the chromatics for C and F#). It's nice to be able to choose the most logical/comfortable fingering rather that be locked into a no choice habit.

Probably the level of proficiency you strive for will make some difference in fingering choices.

[altobeginner]

I don't overuse the Bis key. I have the opposite problem. Coming to the sax from the clarinet, the only Bb I knew was the side key. The Bis and the 1+1 are new to me. Maybe they have 1+1 on the clarinet, but nobody ever showed it to me.

On my horn, the 1+1 sounds muffled. The Bis sounds clear but I hear a little key click when I use it. The side Bb is natural for me, but I can certainly appreciate the others.

I haven't seen too much mention of alternate middle D fingerings. The high right side key or the left palm key. When do you use those?

[hakukani]

I agree, I hate 1+1. It has a lousy timbre.

On my horn side Bb is a touch flat, bis Bb is a touch sharp. I know the horn well enough to use them interchangeably.

Sometimes, I even <gasp> slide my finger from bis to b natural.

[Carl H.]

I haven't seen too much mention of alternate middle D fingerings. The high right side key or the left palm key. When do you use those?

I don't believe there is an actual alternate fingering for this note - on most saxes. I have a tenor - a HOHNER - which has an alternate fingering for this note achieved by adding a tone hole and key just for this additional note option.

There are "resonance fingerings -add low B or Bb to middle D and see how it sounds.

The two alternate fingerings you mention are really only trill fingerings as the tone and intonation of these fingerings is not really very good, but passable for use as an ornament.

Each individual horn is different. The middle C# is an infamous note for intonation issues. My alto plays this note beautifully, which has led to puzzled looks when I explain and demonstrate this note - "This note is infamous for being out of tune" - plays and it is in tune - "to fix this problem use this fingering" shows and plays - now out of tune. Usually takes a bit to sink in with a student, but time with a reference pitch or a tuner clears it all up.

Hakukani - I am shocked! :shock: :shock:
:D

[jbtsax]

Each individual horn is different. The middle C# is an infamous note for intonation issues. My alto plays this note beautifully, which has led to puzzled looks when I explain and demonstrate this note.
Ok, Carl I need to know what make of alto sax plays C# "beautifully". Do you mean both pitch and tone, or just plays in tune? Thanks.