400 question

[blazenu]

on ebay there is a 400 model horn listed serial # 436####. It is said to have been made around 1965. Do you think this horn will live up to the standards of the previous models? or that this is something one should pass on and try and get an older model?

[otomah]

blazenu
I'm a late bloomer with limited experience who's opinion probably should not be given too much weight. :wink: That being said, I've got a post-selmer 400 that I am very happy with. People more knowledgeable and experienced then I have been very complimentary of the horn. It has a rich low end.

I recently was able to acquire a Big B Aristocrat from about 1947. In my opinion, the high end of this horn is a bit fuller than the 400 that I have. The low end is not quite as rich. Intonation on both horns are pretty good.

I suspect that the earlier 400's are better than these. I also believe that these horns are under valued.

[super20dan]

by all means get the 400 .if you are a collector you may want to look for a older pre selmer one but if you want one to play get this one. i have played 400,s of every vintage and there is little difference in sound quality between the older and later ones .i have one of the last ones made and it absoultly smokes! paid 225 for it! .

[Roger Aldridge]

It's possible that this 1965 400 could be a decent horn. In particular, if you're able to get it on the cheap. But, I really have to question whether the overall quality is similar between pre and post-1963 400s. I just don't see how it can be.

If I was in your shoes, I would be careful about this horn and think about whether it would be a better idea to put your money toward an earlier model. Some great-looking early 50's Bueschers can be found on Gayle's www.vintagesax.com site and Dave Hoskins' www.junkdude.com . Gayle currently has a 1929 TT alto for only $900. This is an earlier model than a 400. Never the less, it's a lot of horn for that price. I have a TT alto in this serial number range and I absolutely love it. I prefer it to any Selmer I've ever played over the years! (I've owned several MK VIs.)

Again, the 1965 400 could end up being a good player. But, I don't see it having a similar market value to an earlier Buescher. This may or may not mean much to you now. But, it could farther down the road -- in particular, if you find yourself wanting to trade this horn for something else.

[morgan]

The common perception is that SOME post-Selmer 400s are great and some aren't; that Selmer's major effect was to wreck quality control.

If you get a good post-Selmer 400, enjoy it but don't expect it to have much resale value due to this situation.

A 1929 TruTone is a great horn but I have similar doubts about its resale value. Of course I scarfed up a heap of them thinking "I can't believe how cheap these are! Wait till people get a clue!!", and I would be happy to see their value skyrocket. But I wouldn't predict it with confidence.

[super20dan]

dont listen to the nay-sayers -get the 400.rodger how can you compare a true-tone to a 400 ? its no contest! even post selmer

[Hurling Frootmig]

I think what holds back the TT is the single pearl for G# and the G# trill. It screams really really vintage and enough people have troubles getting over non-selmer keywork. The ones I have played around with are well made solid horns normally in need of a complete overhaul. Given that I don't play a lot of classical I have tended to stay away from purchasing one.

I would easily try any 400 with a serial number under 405k and expect it to be a pretty decent horn. I haven't come across the later Selmer made horns that come after 405k to be able to comment on them. Superdan20 has one and loves it. I've seen Gayle and a host of others selling 450k and even 500k and 550k horns and talking about them still having that 400 sound. If you are really curious about this series of horns I suggest an e-mail to Gayle or Curt (musicmedic). They would have a more informed opinion.

[super20dan]

the later 400,s still have the sound. its only cosmetics that changed . i agree the true tone is good for classical but i wouldnt use one for any thing else.

[Hurling Frootmig]

If I could come across one cheap enough I would love to have one. They seem very well made and I'm amazed at how many of them I see considering their age.

[Roger Aldridge]

Super20Dan,

In my book ALL Buescher models -- True Tone, 'Crat, 400, etc.... -- can be superb horns. I'd be happy to have any one of them. My personal preference is with the earlier models. With a Morgan M or EL mouthpiece my TT kicks serious b**t. It's more than just a classical horn...and I definitely prefer it to the Selmers I've had. Never the less, I have a lot of respect for the 400. I had one many years ago and I really liked that horn. I was talked into making a trade for it that now I regret.

[JL]

I have one of the later TT altos (1929) and it definitely is not restricted to classical music. It wails with more punch and a much better sound for blues/R&R than a Yamaha Custom I have compared it to. As Roger points out, you just need the right mpc.

[paulwl]

But bear in mind, the people who resurrected these horns from forgotten, junk-heap status (and got all the rest of us interested in them) maintain that there is only one right mpc - a dark classical barrel chamber. And until recently, their teaching on that matter was unchallenged. Old habits are hard to break...

[Roger Aldridge]

Paul,

It sounds like you're talking about a particular classical clique of which I'm familiar. Of course, not everyone who holds the TT in high regard comes from that background. I came to the TT from another path and don't carry the "one right" mouthpiece baggage that you described. You see, the first 10 years of my life as a saxophonist were spent playing on a Buescher TT and 400. Then, my saxophone teacher in college convinced me to go with Selmer. Happily, at this point in my life I've come back home to Buescher.

I suspect that JL meant "the right mpc" for us as individual players. At least, that's how I take his message. If others want to use a vintage Buescher mouthpiece or a Rascher or a Caravan, that's their business. But, for the sound that I want to come out of my TT give me a Morgan EL and stand back! :lol:

[paulwl]

Well of course - but till recently, nobody would have taught you that. You figured it out all by your ownself! Not bad, not bad at all... :)

[JL]

Sorry if I confused the issue. By "right" mpc, I mean the one that gives you the sound you want. In the context of the message above, I mean a modern mpc, perhaps with a baffle, that will give you a powerful R&B sound.