Home recording microphones?

[brentb]

I've been recording my playing to work on tone, and have been using a cheapy computer microphone. The nice feature about it is the molded-in clip that fits perfectly onto the bell's rim. Placed there, the microphone gets a good level but not the full frequency range (low tones are not detected).

Any suggestions for a better microphone? I don't want to spend much at all, so what are compromise choices at $10, $20 and $30?

thanks,
-brent

[ferrari]

My brother just bought some cheapo mics w/ stands and xlr cables from Behringer for under $30.00. They sounded great for the money.

[Media Lint]

If you can splurge $50 for a used SM-57 or $90 (?) or so for a new one ... I've got a bunch of (mostly vocal) mics and I tend to prefer that most of the time for sax. I've got a bunch of them $10 microphones I haven't even tried. I don't know what I have them for still. Maybe I should try one and see if it works. I've got a $60 new beyer dynamic that sounds great on vocals but makes the sax sound like it's playing inside a paper bag. Placement is very important, too. I get the best sound pointing toward my LH pinky, 8-10" back ... not down the bell. I also play standing and I'm good at backing up when I know I'm gonna blast a bell tone!

[Grantibibitus]

Hey Brent,

If monitoring your tone is what you're looking to do, then you're going to need a mic that is capable of reproducing exactly what it's hearing. A mic that really sounds good is not going to be cheap. Your best bet is as Media said, SM57. It is the recording standard for dynamic mics. Any mic that you buy for under $100 is pretty much junk and the resultant recordings will be junk. I realize your intention is not to start a studio, just hear yourself. With that in mind I have some suggestions about how to make a cheap mic sound better.

First of all, take a look at the room you're playing in. Is the room basically a box? Are there curtains, or any tapestries or quilts hanging? Is the ceiling flat? Does it have popcorn? Is the floor carpet, tile, or wood? Non-parallel walls, curtains, tapestries, popcorned ceiling, and carpet are you friends. The other things increase the amount of natural reverb. Generally speaking, you'd be wise to keep that reverb to a minimum. It's what gives living room recordings that distinct sound of being in someones living room. If the window's curtains are open, draw them shut. Open the closet door to expose your hanging clothes. Do anything you can to increase the surface area of sound absorbent (soft)materials in the room.

The next step is to carefully place the mic so that it gets not only a warm sound from your horn, but little sound from anywhere else. The reason sound men in clubs always want you to swallow the mic with the bell of your horn is because you're playing live with a monitor at your feet. If you placed it in a nice sounding position (as mentioned above: just out from your left pinky angled down a bit) the input volume (gain) would have to be cranked up somewhat and would cause feedback in your monitor. From a recording standpoint, you can afford to put it where it sounds best (which may not be where I just said, experiment on your own to find where YOU like it best). Once you've decided on the placement, take a moment to situate your position in the room so that your back is to some really dead (sound absorbent) spot. Try putting your back to an open closet full of hanging clothes. I'm assuming the mic is directional. By directional I mean that it picks up stronger from the end that you play into than from the end that the cable fits into. The only type that is not directional is called omnidirectional (picks up evenly from all sides.) Don't buy an omni mic for recording yourself. Anyway, the idea is that if the area right behind you is nice and dead, the mic won't pick up much of the room sound. With this type of dry sounding recording, you'll only have the coloration that the mic itself inflicts on your sound to deal with instead of the room muddying the waters as well.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
-Grant

[brentb]

Yes, that's helpful information Grant and ML, thanks.

[Nefertiti]

I've got a samson wireless with a AMT mic. Could I use this to record to my computer? What would I need to do this? Hardware? Software? Thanks

[Jazzed]

Nefertiti,

I use a Shure wireless system and have used it to record into my pc. You'll optimally need a better mic (a clip-on mic picks up a lot of noise from the keys closing which is not so noticeable in live gigs with other instruments amplified), but it will work. I set it up so the signal from the wireless receiver goes into a mixer that is then patched into the soundcard on my pc. I use a few different software programs- Cakewalk, Acid, an old one- SawPlus or Band In A Box to record with. I record .wav files which are easily converted to .mp3s.

[Zoot Horn]

In the old forum Daffodil left a couple of posts about the ART Tube Amp. Under $100. I got one, and it is the coolest music thingy I ever bought. Plug it into your sound card and get the extra clean gain you want, and that cool clipped sound from the single tube. It changed the way I hear myself in my mp3 files.

[Zoot Horn]

Just to be clear, its a pre-amp. You can plug it into anything. Mike yourself into a guitar amp. Or whatever.

[Media Lint]

I'm the former Daffodil-11 :)

Yes, there are certainly better pre-amps but probably not for what you can get the ART for. I mostly got it for vocals, but then I started using it on bass, and then it was only obvious to use it on saxophone.

I have a lot of microphones to choose from, and if I feel like spending time fussing with them I use other ones but the SM-57 is pretty painless to use on most instruments. About the only thing I don't ever use a 57 for is vocals. But it would probably sound good on other vocalists, just not me.

Quote: Non-parallel walls, curtains, tapestries, popcorned ceiling, and carpet are you friends

Well, I certainly have non-parallel walls! (Converted attic).

[Andrew]

I use a SM-57 for my home recording. These can easily be bought for less than $50 on eBay...they retail like twice that (which is what I paid for). These are really great microphones.

[paulwl]

Now that tubes have been introduced into the discussion, has anybody tried a ribbon mic (ex: RCA 74 Jr. Velocity)?

[Media Lint]

It might be worth it to buy the new mic than the ebay one (and they usually end up selling more like $70) because microphones are often abused. Smoke and beer spittle lower their life expectancy ... not to mention the time they let Lord Thor, God of Amplification use it on his guitar rig or the time their nine year old son discovered that if you plug a microphone into the output of an audio chain it effectively becomes a tiny speaker (I did that when I was about nine!)

Not familiar with the RCA. I have used others but can't really evaluate them due to overall inexperience. A good ribbon mic is moving out of the original price range in a big way :)

I do know this: do NOT turn on the phantom power using a ribbon mic!

[saxboy]

Just did a ribbon last week for a guy. They sound really good. You can't blow on them or honk a low Bb at them for fear of damage. My favorite ribbons are the old Beyers, large diaphragm. You just need to give them a little distance to be safe.

Using a clip-on to record is not a problem if you clip it on to something other than your sax and play at it like any mic. I have used my Audio Technica clip when the studio had NO mics with great success; just take it off the horn.

On mic prices; how much did your sax cost? How hard have you worked to get it to sound great? How long you been at it? A good mic takes the real you and records or amplifies it. I have played on $20,000 mics but could never afford that. I do think a 57 or 58 for $100-175 seems pretty fair with saxes selling in the 2 to 6 grand area.

Save the $20 mics for the guitar player’s amp.

SAXBOY

[kgiles]

I'm not a big fan of the clip on mics either live or in the studio. I typically use an sm57 live or sen421. The smaller diaphram of the clip on mics does not reproduce the full range of the horn and thus makes the horn sound thin. In the studio I prefer ribbon mics.....PERIOD ! The Octava Ml52 is a ribbon mic which sells for about 200-250. It sounds great !

[sessionsax]

Don't forget the cheaper large diaphram condensors that are available.

AT, Rode, Behringer, and Marshall Electronics all offer them. If you use it live, be sure to get a cardoid pattern and one that can handle higher SPL's.

I bought a $100 MCI -- made by Marshall the other day, and its not bad.

It is also not a Neuman, but it works for demos for song ideas better than my Shure 57s and 58s.

Actually the sound of the mic is pretty good, but it does put out more self noise than I would want for a pro recording.