A few humble questions

[MrZ]

Hi! LEt me introduce myself first! I just started playing for 2 month. I using YTS-475, Yamaha 4C mouthpiece and afew brands of reeds (2&1/2).
I practise almost for 2 hours day emphesizing on long tones & scales. I study on my own.
I have a few questions to ask from any Of you.

1)Highest fork f , front e&f & f# does not pop out unless I slur from any other note?Is it embrouchere , horn or reed problem?

2)When need to breath while playing 8th notes continuously for more about 12 bar? Cause the exercise i'm playing doesn't have any rest note or breath sign! Any tips on that? I always set my metronome at 60bps.

3)What is the purpose of the little pearl key below the c key? It don't seem to be very important beside for alternate b-flat. Any eadvice on that?
4) Do we really need to memorise the exercise and etudes that I have learned cause I can only side read but can't figure out from my head.
Will it affect my future to be an improvisor. I can only memorise basic ascending & descending af major scales at this moment. Any tips on how to memorise well?

Thanks in advance :wink:

[singlereed]

The front F key fingerings for E/F/F# do take practice, and you are right to learn it by slurring to it. I think if you can play it this way then your equipment and embouchure are OK, it will get easier with more practice. Try making the F# using the side Bb key rather than the high F# key. These are the first 'altissimo' notes. Try playing arpeggios in E, F and F# using the front F fingerings. You will find the long A# (or Bb) fingering works very well (LH1, RH2) in the F# major arpeggio (F#, A#, C#) - you can keep finger RH2 down throughout and the front F# is a lot quicker than using the palm keys, especially using the side Bb key to make the top F#.

Breathing is something to be practised too. Try breathing right out before breathing in, your reflex will help you fill your lungs. You can probably take in a lot more air than you think, feel your waist and your lower back expand if you really breathe deep. This will help you play for longer between breaths.

Managing breath over difficult phrases where there are apparently no gaps means that you need to recognise the phrases and create gaps to breathe. It's like using punctuation when you write or speak, and it is natural in music too, almost all music has a natural ebb and flow of speed and dynamics, and you need to integrate your breathing with that. Sometimes you can snatch half a breath that is enough to get you through, but you are going to struggle with some music written for non-wind instruments unless you build your breathing capacity.

The little pearl below the C is for playing an alternate Bb/A# and is useful in some key signatures. That is all it's for, really, although it can be used in some altissimo fingerings too. It is also known as the bis key.

I am not great at memorising, hopefully others will advise on some strategies you can use. However, you are right to practise it, and it is surprising how it all comes together over time, practising studies in a given key makes playing that scale easier. Your brain is learning a lot at the moment!

Good luck, you should do well as you are obviously already working hard and asking very sensible questions!

[Ritchie]

The earlier you start memorising, the better. You will improve with practise, just like anything else. I rely too much on written music myself, and the first song you learn by heart will be the hardest.

Long tones and scales are very good practise tasks, but start with some simple pieces of music as well. If you want to play Jazz, get a Realbook and play through the tunes. If any of the tunes are too hard to play for you yet, play them slowly. There is always a tempo that matches your technical ability, even if you just startet.

[Troy]

For me, it works best to break the piece down. Take it in small parts.
Take a bar or two at first. When that is easy, move to the first phrase. Play it a lot. When you don't have to think too much about the first phrase, add a couple more bars. You'll have the whole thing in less time than you think.

[Cameron Wigmore]

You've been playing for two months and I feel your excitement.
Relax. It will all come in time.
Also, there are no short cuts. You have a lot of work to do. Good luck!

[Peterk]

...also some exercises do not give you place to breathe on purpose and you cannot conceivably play them in one breath. It's OK to skip an eighth note for a quick breath, or if it's not an actual tune you can even pause and pick it up again. Don't kill yourself.

[RatBatBlues]

...also some exercises do not give you place to breathe on purpose and you cannot conceivably play them in one breath. It's OK to skip an eighth note for a quick breath, or if it's not an actual tune you can even pause and pick it up again. Don't kill yourself.

I've been wondering that myself. I do pause when I need to now, but I remember my teacher suggesting I learn to take a breath faster.

[singlereed]

There is no right answer, it is useful to learn several approaches, such as a quick half breath snatched here and there as well as developing more capacity and control overall. The approach you take is a compromise of your skills and ability and the demands of a MUSICAL performance.

It is creditable that you are aware of these issues so early on, finding your limitations and frustrations is a good way of getting an agenda to work on with your teacher but do take his advice as well about what to work on, and also be patient.

Perhaps one more hint: be committed and positive in your playing - attack the notes and fill your instrument with sound - surprisingly, your fingers will be more inclined to do what you tell them and you will not run ou of breath so easily. Works for me, anyway.

[Gordon (NZ)]

The little pearled key is often referred to as the 'bis' key. Use the left first finger to press this AS WELL as its usual key when playing B, to play B instead of Bb. It is just another optional fingering for Bb. Some players, especially those who have come form flute or clarinet, never use it; others like it very much.

[bari_sax_diva]

And since I was one of those clarinet players who had to be taught how to use the bis key, I can relate to Gordon's post. But it's a good one to learn, because there are some intervals that don't go all that well without it. Middle register D or D#, to the Bb below, for instance--you'll find that happens on "In the Mood." Using the bis makes that interval a lot more efficient.

All that said, bis is a good alternate fingering, but not always the best choice. I usually use it only when I'm playing in a key that includes flats. Why? Because sharp keys generally include B naturals, and it's generally not recommended to slide on and off the bis key when you can avoid it. There are exceptions, though--in the baritone part of a big band chart called "Quiet Riot" there's a sax soli that sort of modulates in the middle, and I found it impossible to play a passage that ran up from D# to G#, A# and C# (eight notes at about 220 bpm) without using the bis fingering. I had to switch a couple of bars later to get something else, and then back again (I ended up having to write myself notes on the part in order to remember when to move on and off. :roll:) So... learn how to use it now and stash it in your toolkit. You might find it helps you someday.

Oddly enough, I almost never use the 1+1 fingering on sax. Does anyone?

-Leanne

P.S. If you want to develop your use of both the bis and side fingerings, one way to do it is to use the bis when you practice major scales that are in keys with flats (F, Bb, Eb, Ab, etc.), and the side key fingering for the scales in keys with sharps. It's easier if you go through your scales in fifths, though.

[Jazzophone]

Oddly enough, I almost never use the 1+1 fingering on sax. Does anyone?

I do. It was sort of a crash course thing with me. When I started playing tenor I misread the fingering charts, playing on an old student horn at the time without a front F key, and thought that the B key was the front F key, and the bis key was the B key. So I always played C on the bis key and ended up, of course, being a semitone flat on that note (and that note only). My teacher -- who wasn't a very good match, he played French horn and was trying to teach me how to play tenor ... he thought I couldn't read music! after coming from five years of flute! please, beginners, be careful when you choose who you study with -- eventually figured out what I was doing and told me not to use the "super" key (his name for the bis key) and showed me the 1+1 fingering instead. It's only last year that I properly learned how to cover both keys with one finger and use that in runs.

Crazily enough, I never was able to remember the 1+1 fingering for Bb/A# on flute (it's the same) until I learned it on sax. Reinforcement, I guess.[/quote]

[MrZ]

Thanks for all the reply guys! You all are wonderful human being in a cool community!!! :D

[Gordon (NZ)]

I was a reasonably accomplished flute player before starting on clarinet & sax, and only ever used the 1-1 fingering on flute, as many flute players do. So the 1-1 on sax feels very natural and accurate. The coordination practice had been done already, on flute. The Bis Bb feels very unnatural indeed for me. I never use it. 1-1 is fine fro arpeggios, as it is for flute.

On clarinet I have settled on the side Bb, and sometimes use this on sax. 1-1 Bb on clarinet is not a very good note, so I avoid it if possible. I never use the alt Bb on clarinet - I can see little point in it being there. My fat finger touches it by accident so I have plugged that tone hole with a cork.

In summary, we get used to what we get used to.

[johnsax]

Mr Z,

I've been playing alto for about 6 months. A while ago, I tried to learn some of the "alternate" fingerings and all that happened was that I got HOPELESSLY confused. That happens easily with me! I didn't know when to use which fingering.

A few weeks ago, my instructor started me on a new method book called "The Universal Method for Saxophone" by Paul Deville. On pages 72 through 75 are a series of EXCELLENT exercises that take you through the 4 main ways of playing B flat. These exercises are NOT easy but after you work through them you will have a much better of sense of when to use which fingering.

It sounds like you are advancing very quickly. You are probably ready for this book but I'd recommend using it with an instructor. It's so big and comprehensive that you'll probably need some help figuring which exercises are useful and which aren't.

John

[johnsax]

To Bari_Sax_Diva,

I was reading about the run you described on the bari (D#, G #, A #, C#). Are the fingerings for a bari different than for an alto? If not, I would have thought this run could have been easily done with the bis key. I would have done it this way:

D# (while pressing the left G# pinkie finger down which won't effect the note)
G# (by lifting all the right hand keys leaving the left hand alone.)
A# (lifting all the left hand keys except for the bis key)
C# (lifting up the bis key)

The whole run can be executed without any articulations simply by lifting fingers up. Let me know, I'm curious to know if this works on a bari.

John

[johnsax]

Sorry Bari_Sax_Diva,

I misread your post. So you DO use the bis key for that run.

NEVER MIND!

John

[bari_sax_diva]

Right. I forget exactly how that passage went, but I remember there were a couple of D# to A# things in there that pretty much required a bis or 1 + 1 fingering. The part where it got ugly was in the next two bars, you had to switch back to hit a couple middle register B naturals, then to the bis again for more accidentals. I don't recall who recorded Quiet Riot on the Louie Bellson CD, but he must have been a monster.

You know, I should have made a copy of that part--it's one I'd like to have under my fingers in case I ever need to play it again.

Seeya,
Leanne

[I. Fallon]

Hi MrZ. To learn a lot of tricks to musically interrupt for breath, buy the sheet music and recording for a transcribed classical piece originally intended for a string instrument. Composers obvious take no heed for breathing on these pieces since a string instrument can play on "forever." I am playing the transcribed Bach Cello Suites on the flute and there are many challenges.

Sometimes a performer "cheats" by using circular breathing. Good luck.