Yamaha Custom Z

[bluesupanddown]

I finally got to try the Custom Z. I have to say that I was quite disappointed. I own a Yamaha Custom, and I feel that it beats the Z any day of the week. I played a few tenors ,(Yanagisawa 991 992 991s, Keilwerth SX90R, and the Yamaha Custom Z), and I have to say that the Z was the worse tenor I played that day. It is a matter of opinon, and I love the custom, but I ended up buying a Yanagisawa 991s. The sound is more focused and the tuning is amazing. Before you make a purchase, try as many different horns as you can, even horns you think that you would never buy. I never thought that I would end up with a Yanagisawa, but I felt that it beat the Z in every aspect. I would have blindly bought the Z, never knowing what the disadvantages were, and I would have never been happy with the horn.

[Jim S]

I also tried a Z about 6 months ago, when I was looking for a new horn, and didn't care for it. I'm now wondering if the G1 neck was causing problems with the horn I tried??? I ended up buying a Yamaha Custom and I love the horn. The only thing I would change about my custom is I would like it to have a little darker sound (I'm considering getting a different neck to achieve this). Anyway, back to your point...I also strongly suggest that people try as many horns as possible before buying. You never really know until you play and hear a horn, if it's for you. Good luck with your new horn!

[psyguy]

It just goes to show "different strokes for different folks". I bought a tenor Z and was able to hear it against a Keilwerth SX 90R and 1950's vintage Mark VI- all instruments, including the Z, were played by two pro musicians. The Z in my opinion blew the SX90R and the Mark VI away. The Z is on top for resonance and projection. It actually sounds like an amplified horn. By the way, if you tried the Z six months ago, it almost assuredly had a flawed neck.

[averageschmoe]

i've had a friend compare my yts875 to a Z at a somewhat recent CMEA show and preferred the z. i've yet to try one, but i'm beginning to be of the opinion that for most people you either love it or hate it.

[MS]

Jim S
Which neck came with your YAS Custom 875? If it came with a G1 neck, you might try an M1 neck. The M1 is smoother/darker. A glod plated G1 would probably smooth things out also. Have fun and enjoy.

[psyguy]

Averageschmoe-

No kidding...that Z your friend tried at the Calif Music Educatots Show in Psadena (?) now belongs to me.

Stuart

[Gandalfe]

Jim S, what differences did you find between the Custom and the Z? I've heard those horns have virtually the same keyworks but that the alloy metals used are different and the finish/engraving is a bit fancier on the Z. Was it just the sound or something else. How long did you play the Z. It took me almost a month the find the sweet spots on my YAS Custom 82Z but the intonation was always spot on from day one.

Just call me curious,

[Jim S]

MS - I currently have the M1 neck but I've heard of a few people using Ref 54 necks and having great success. I would love to try a 54 neck but no stores carry 54s in my area.

Gandalfe - I played the Z for about two hours...but I was also switching between it and a few other horns. The Z was noticeably sharper in the upper range and I thought the sound was a little thin. But again, I assume the G1 neck caused problems with the sound and intonation. The Z was also much lighter (weight-wise) than the custom and I prefer a heavier horn. Sometimes a horn just feels right and and the custom easily won my heart. :D Of course, if I had the money I would have bought the 5-digit Mark 6 I tried that day...but $5K was a little out of my range. That horn played better than any other horn I've ever played! :cry:

[Jim S]

MS - I have a YTS-875.

[averageschmoe]

psyguy, yeah... that sounds like the show. he was telling me about this martin bass that was absolutely incredible... pity yamaha doesn't make one.

[Jake 35]

Hey! A similar situation happened to me! I was trying out alto saxophones, and i thought i would buy a selmer series III, but instead i came home with a 991!

[woodwindmaster06]

I used to own a Z Loved it and then tried to tune on it and returned it, without tuning issues it was better than the custom, I now am much more happy on a Ref54

[saxgroovez]

I was very concerned when I read that the Custom Z may of had some kind of intonation problems, so I went and tested them out. Well to my surprise there was a major intonation problem! I bought my Korg tuner with me to test all the notes on the Z. The middle register, Low B flat to higher B were perfect. When I got to the higher D and E, the tuner showed very sharp...off the chart on my tuner. I really had to use my embochure to get back in tune. I found this problem on the Gold Lacquer and the Non L, two L and 1 NL, three in total had the problem. I was very disappointed and the clerk was very surprised when I proved it to him on the tuner. As far as sound went, the word I would use to describe the Z is dry, with a lack of real character. I then tried the custom 875 tenor, and was totally in love with it. It had a much more richer sound and with the right mouthpiece can get the same brighter sound of the Z. The Key mechanism was also smoother on the custom 875. All the notes showed in tune on the tuner with no effort really on the higher registers to keep them in tune. After I tried the 875 Custom, the clerk handed me a SA80 III Selmer Tenor. I thought it was almost exact to the 875 Custom, but the Yamaha key mechanism totally blew away the Selmer which was way higher in price. [/b]

[Dirty Dave]

Are you talking about an old 875 or the new 875EX?

[saxgroovez]

Dirty Dave..I'm talking about the 875 older custom....great horn..

[Dirty Dave]

Yeah...that's what I've got.

[saxgroovez]

The day I bought my custom 875(older) tenor, which was last week, I went to watch Average White Band perform in Oxnard, Ca. The horn player blew an awesome solo on a slow song called a love of your own. I was blown away by his tenor sax sound! I can swear this on something, that I've never heard a horn blow so beautifully. I'd describe it as round, bright, with a nice edge, nice even sound, blended in so perfect with the band...i can't describe it. It was awesome. Later after they played, i got to meet the horn player in the lobby. I asked him what kind of horn he was playing, he said, Yamaha sent me this new custom Z to try out, all the Tower of Power horn section is playing them too, he replied. I was like ****!! I bought the custom, played it at the gig for the first time, though it's a nice horn..i wasn't happy, becuase I figured out that it lacked tonal flexibilty, i'm a very soulful player, and I need that horn to bend and flow with me, i didn't get that with the custom 875. But I hear the Z's were made for that main reason...tonal flexability.... so I got 7 days to return the custom with a 5% charge..and grab the custom Z....
I will totally say..the Z sounded better than any Selmer in a live setting....!!

[saxgroovez]

I know the Z's have that intonation prob.....but i'll get the new neck....I'm trying them out again...

[jazzmasta123]

Actually the problem lies in the neck. Every last Custom Z horn had to be shipped back to the factory to get the necks re-done. They just started shipping them back out, I think 2 months ago. So i advise you to try one again because they are quite a good horn.

[saxgroovez]

Well, I now own a Z and my heart is finally content. It may or may not have the bad neck..but i called Yamaha and left a message. I went with the Gold L, though I thought the Un L had a better sound. I just didn't want my horn to get ugly to fast. One thing I noticed on the Z Tenor is that down at the bottom by the serial number and model, there is a ring, and it looks a little seperated from the body, i took it back because i thought it was a defect but they guys at the store said the repair man said it was not a defect and that the horn was fine...does any one else see that problem on their Z?

[M Exner]

I just checked my alto Z and there is a small, no tiny, gap in the ring (between it and the body). This ring is holding the two main body sections of the sax. Not only is it screwed together at this ring but if my memory is correct from the video, I believe they also used epoxy at this joint. Check out the video and see if I'm right.

I placed the pointed edge of an index card into the gap and it was a tight fit. Believe me, there is NO PROBLEM with this. How does it play? That's the real question and what counts. Mike

[saxgroovez]

Mike...thanks for letting me know your Yamaha has the same gap...now I am more at ease..by the way...what is epoxy?

[M Exner]

Again, I'm not sure if epoxy is used in this case, but epoxy however, is a very strong setting glue.

Have you seen the virtual tour of the saxophone assembly of the Custom EX's and Custom Z's on the Yamaha site? Mike

[pknight]

I thought Yamaha only used epoxy on the student models, and soldered the body and bow on the rest. I could be wrong. In either case, the ring is just for providing rigidity and support. The epoxy/solder provides the seal.

[jazzmasta123]

Saxgrooves.... A while ago the Custom Zs were sent back to the factory due to Neck problems ( thats probably where u got ur intonation problems from). All the necks were re-done. So I bet if u ordered one now. The intonation problems would be gone or REALLY LESSENED!!! :D

[jazzmasta123]

oops...sry forgot i posted here....lol...didn't c my other message..just ignore the one above

[M Exner]

pknight
I just watched the Yamaha virtual tour again. I think this is four times now. I see the technician using a brush putting on some compound. It could be epoxy or some type of sealant. Then he immediately put the connecting ring on with a power screw driver.

It was one of the pro horns either EX, Z, or a 62 he was working on, I don't know. But no soldering that I could see was done at this moment. It's amazing to watch these saxes being assembled. I hope this clears some things up. Mike

[saxgroovez]

Yea, I checked out that video, it's awesome, I also think I've watched it 4 to 5 times. What really surprised me was that guy on the video, George Shelby, I met him back when I was still a teenager, probaly in the 9th grade, I'm 29 now. He was playing at Magic Mountain, or it could of been DisneyLand, but I remember going up to him and asking him for his card, small world. Anyway, I really hope what ever is holding my Z together is strong, very strong, and I'm hoping the seal doesn't break and I start leaking air...

By the way, I just recorded a few licks on my Z tenor onto mini disk and I'm putting it on my website for tone listening purposes for those who would love to hear what a Z plays like....and who have not had the chance to play one. I'll post my site on here when it's on.

[saxgroovez]

Ok fellas, I've put a sound byte of my YTS 82 Z on my website. I'm no where near a great sax player but I wanted to be a cool guy and let those who haven't and have heard the Z, in some sort of action. Remember, the sound that I get is probably not the sound you will get, so don't base your decisions on what you hear in my clip but rather in you trying out the horn. Here's the Link

http://salavila.tripod.com

I also have a clip of me playing a student tenor..kind of made it sound like a Keilwerth....lol

[BandMan]

I must open an old thread to be sure of current manufacturing techniques.
I just bought a brand new YAS-875EX and the connecting ring (body to bow) is not of the same even tightness to the body the whole way around. It gaps a very little in 2 places (not even enough to get an index card into).
The horn plays great, but I just want to be sure that this uneveness will not lower the value of the alto sax. Evidently this does not occur often or if it does, it is not of great concern to those on this forum.
I value your opinions. What do you think?
Thanks.

[SaxyAcoustician]

If you can whisper a low B and Bb then likely there's no leak, thus there would be no problem. It's merely a cosmetic issue.

[bartone]

I picked up my tenor Z about 5 months ago from Pro Winds. How would I know if I should have the neck checked out?
bart

[Gandalfe]

Check it with a tuner. Or play with someone else. If you can't get the instrument in tune, assuming you are an experienced player, then you have a problem. If you aren't an experienced player, have your teacher or a better player check it out.

[saxboy]

Wonder if your neck is bad? The intonation will be very bad, not just a little off. If you play an octave key note, the pitch should be real sharp on the bad necks, and very noticeable in the palm keys. The replacement necks look the same with the exception of a small dimple in the octave key guide on top. If you have a new G1 neck on Tenor, it will have that dimple.
Not all of the early G1 necks had a problem. I played many G1 necks and never had a bad neck in my travels. It was one batch of necks that shipped on some of the new Z's. It was quickly dealt with by Yamaha and new necks were given to replace the defect. Outside of really old product a dealer might be just now selling, the neck thing is pretty old news.

The bigger issue today is neck and mouthpiece combinations. I have found some saxes that my Guardala will not play the palm or fork key notes in tune. I tried a Dukoff and the problem went away. I believe it was the neck and mouthpiece interaction that somehow made a high E sound like an F on these tenors. No manufacturer would produce a Sax that far off, they would move the tone holes, resize them and what-not.

Just throwing that one out because I get a lot of email questions and over recent months, the answer has not been bad necks but bad combinations.

One size does not fit all. I have said this for years. That's why so many different saxes can be played by so many different sax players to get so many different sax sounds.

I love my 875's pre-EX. I have played the EX and would have no problem with either. I recently had an Alto repair take my 875 from me for over a month now, still not back from repair. I got an Un-Lacquered Z Alto to use.

I liked the Z but never considered replacing my 875 with a Z. It took me a while to find my voice on it, and now I am torn on the 875. When I get it back I will try to live with both for a month or more but I have to say the Z really grew on me.

The response is amazing and vibration is effortless. The new G3 neck was to light toned and light resistance for me so I am using a silver M1 that I also liked on the 875. This Z barks down low and can cut or float up high. The Altissimo is really easy and I think I am falling in love. It is ugly in comparison to my Black 875, but I can live with that. It is easy and fun to play.

I the Yana's are great, have played them many times over the years and do think the Sterling is pretty amazing, but would never make the jump from the Yamaha core sound, pitch and rich overtones. It works for me.

The best advice has already been stated. Play as many saxes as you can and buy the one that kills you. Then spend the time to find your voice on it and make some beautiful music.

2 clips of the Z Alto - http://www.saxophone.us/music/Embrase_Gods_Way_sample.m3u
http://www.saxophone.us/music/More_Than_Worthy_sample.m3u
1 clip on the 875 Alto -
http://www.encouragingmusic.com/Products/mp3sample.asp?S=/samples/indexed/140.mp3
Same neck and MP on both.

There are many outside factors here - The Z clips are from my house, Pro Tools, PC, AEA 84 Ribbon Mic, no Mic Pre. The 875 clip is a studio with more pro stuff, tube Mic, ect... The different situations effects the sound a bit, but I like the sound of both and these 3 tracks live together on a CD and sound like 1 sax player, so....

SAXBOY's thoughts and a few sounds.

The SAXBOY SaxReviews.com Disclaimer -

http://www.saxreviews.com/disclaimer.html

One Size does not fit all.

[sinkdraiN]

I know the Z's have that intonation prob.....but i'll get the new neck....I'm trying them out again...

Not many of the flawed necks got out there. All tenors with a serial # after 10,294 have the new (corrected) G1 neck. There never was a problem with the alto necks. When they first switched over to the corrected necks they put a small dot on the neck to signify the correction. Now that it's been 3 years they stopped marking the necks.

[sinkdraiN]

I liked the Z but never considered replacing my 875 with a Z. It took me a while to find my voice on it, and now I am torn on the 875. When I get it back I will try to live with both for a month or more but I have to say the Z really grew on me.

.

Yeah, I had a silver Z alto for about 4 weeks and I became torn between it and my 875. I think that eventually I liked the Zs tone a little better but my 875 was my first horn and I am really comfortable on it. I ended up giving the Z back...but it was tough.

[timobrien]

I went to Prowinds last year and picked up a Custom 82z after a VERY bad experience with another retailer (WWBW). Auditioned a half-a-dozen horns and it was the one that "spoke" to me. From all the way at the bottom to all the way to the top it every note was easy to hit, unlike any other horn I've played.

Very happy with mine...