Bass Flutes anyone?

[Ivy]

Iim toying with the idea of trying these out. What does it take to tame this beast?

Breath control- perhaps take olympic swimming lessons to strengthen my breath capacity.

Embrouchure- I imagine it similar to an alto but much grosser(larger movements. Principle should be the same, eg. overtone series.

Fingerings- are these so wide apart you have to be plastic man to play it.

Which bass flutes are good from the modern makers. Emerson has the cheapest prices. Are these any good?

Weight- can you hold this sucker up for more than 5 minutes?

[Gordon (NZ)]

I have an Emerson alto flute, about 12 years old. I chose it because the low octave was good in volume and tone at the time for a 'cheap' model.

Mechanically it was a disgrace, with very sloppy pivots etc, and even the upper tenon leaked badly. I did a LOT of work to make it more reliable.

The intonation was appalling, with about 5 notes really flat. I cut several mm of metal off the head to raise all the notes, getting the flat ones right, then partly filled in tone holes (up to about 1/5th!) to get the others back down. This left only the bottom note too sharp. I made a neat plastic attachment to go on the end. The resultant scale is good, and I have noticed no deterioration in tone.

It became clear to me that Emerson's placement of tone holes was nothing much more than a guess. Emerson deserves my severe public judgement for this disgraceful design and manufacture.

[Gordon (NZ)]

What I meant to say in conclusion was, if they cannot do a reasonable job of making an alto flute, do you really think they could do any better with a bass!

Their standards would have to have improved dramatically before I could recommend one, and there is little evidence of improved standards in their soprano flutes.

[Dr_sax]

got a bass flute 1/2 year before. It´s a armstrong with silver head. Great tone. Very easy to blow. Got used to it after about 3 weeks. It´s not as heavy as it looks. You can hold it for hours. I got it very cheap(1750$).
Was used with a very small dent. :lol:

[MojoBari]

On the flute forums, the Robert Dick Emerson Bass Flutes are very well regarded for the price. Jupiter is coming out with a Bass in August. I would expect it to be the new low-price standard since they came out with a decent alto last year.

[Bootman]

Bass flutes are great, I have an old Artley here with a solid silver head. These things suck the air from you as you play them but the sound is incredible.

[I. Fallon]

Artley either had a bass flute stenciled for them, or made a bass flute using someone's patent (I don't know which) several years ago. I recently saw one on eBay. It looked extremely nice but it went for over $2K, as I remember. I think that Bootman has or had one of these.

I have never played a bass flute but I have tried an alto flute and you do not have to be "elasto-man" with your fingers. Bass flutes should be the same way.

[Bootman]

Yes, the bass I have here is the Ogilve model, a great Bass Flute. It has passed the John Lehner stamp of approval as a good Flute. I would recommend getting a Bass Flute if you can, they are heaps of fun and the biggest air hog you have ever come across.

[Ivy]

Thanks everyone for the info! I've been intrigued by this horn ever since I've heard Jeremy Steig play it on Ray Mantilla's record. Beautiful playing plus his tone still has that "Jeremy" sound that he has on soprano flute. Robert Dick also has a bass debut record playing Berio's Sequenza for the flute. Anybody discover other great players of this horn?

I saw that Yamaha has a "gold" brass bassflute which sells for more than 6000$. Has anybody tried this curious object. At least I know they will place their tone holes with a little more thought than Emerson.

Ivy

[Ivy]

I. Fallon, how is your "new" Powell head working out?

[I. Fallon]

Hi Ivy. I had to stop practice for a day since I hammered my lip muscles by playing too much! I love the sound and my upper notes are much crisper (until the muscles went).

I have a lesson on monday, so I should be able to provide more technical background on that date.

[T.S.]

I Tried a Robert Dick model Emerson (with the silver head and C foot) at the NAMM show and it was excellent. The tone and response were beautiful! I was very surprised as I had tried one of their alto flutes (Emerson) and was not impressed.

I tried the Jupiter also, and was underwhelmed...though, to be fair, it was in serious need of leak work.

I would love to try a Yamaha, but no one carries them and I have yet to find a player that hass one.

[Ivy]

Yeah, Robert Dick also worked with the Dutch flutemaker, Eva Kingma. I think they only do alto and bass flutes. She custom designed a bass flute (and alto) with features like open hole design. Robert Dick really needs an open hole because he uses parlty closed keys for glissandi. It also has Bb trill key. This baby used to cost 17,000$ about ten years ago.

The nfa flute convention in las vegas in August will be an oppurtunity to try most of the current brands of bass flutes out there.

[Bootman]

Have a look in Europe, there may be more Bass Flutes available there. I picked my Bass Flute up out of the UK. It wasn't cheap but then again nothing to do with Bass Instruments is ever cheap.

[I. Fallon]

Hi Ivy. Not topic related but since you started the thread (and you asked the question), I will answer it here.

Went to my flute teacher today and she tried my Powell headjoint. It is definitely their "Boston" variety, but lacks the beveled surface on the sides of the hole. It did not play quite as loud has hers, but everything else was the same. She liked it.

[Bootman]

I Fallon, remember that what works for a Female Flautist in terms of hole size is different to what works for Males. It is a physical thing that men have larger mouths (in general) and often play with more air than women do. Just some factors to think about when deciding on what is the best head joint for you. Just some of the odd things you learn when hangin gout with Flute makers.

Congratulations on finding a head joint that is working for you. Can yougive us a run down on soem nticeable improvements it has made for your sound and playing?

[I. Fallon]

Hi Bootman.

I had been using a headjoint from an Artley Wilkins open hole flute, which I mated with an Artley Wilkins closed hole flute. This headjoint was based (stolen) from Powell, so it shared some characteristics with my new (for me) Powell Boston.

The middle E was immediately clearer and (I think) in better scale. It sounded better to me.

I have been practicing "scales" of harmonics off a base note (Gordon will have fits with this terminology). The Powell has a distinct and separate placement for each overtone and the Artley kind of blended one to the next.

The Powell has a bigger sound and is sweeter and allows me to go higher than I could on the Artley. Now my only problem is learning finger placements on G3 and above. I still use a bit of Scotch tape on the lower G tonehole to reduce its size to allow me to play E3.

Both headjoints produce effortless low notes (I have a C footjoint). I really enjoyed my old headjoint, but it is no match for what I have now. I am playing the Bach Cello Suits transcribed for flute and I can now play the complete range of the pieces.

My teacher is a very strong classical and jazz player and we are actually somewhat matched. I can see what you are talking about, though.

BTW, the Artley Wilkins closed hole is wonderful for a doubler. I just wish it was offset G and had a split E. And you can't beat the price.

[Bootman]

Irv,
Thanks mate, this is exactly what I wanted to know. Try a cork Donut under the second G hole and the high E should improve. else use more air pressure.

The Powell's are great flutes as are those older Artleys. Iahve soem great head joints here in combinations of solid Platinum lip/ chimney silver tube or the same thing in Gold tube. The gold has more warmth and bigger tone than the silver which is louder and has a cleaner, more brilliant sound.

[I. Fallon]

Bootman. I re-read your earlier post. Are you implying that my Powell is not suited for play by a "manly-man" LOL? I will have you know that I took your comment to heart and I'm in the process of necking down a Alto Flute headjoint to fit my Artley. It is a good thing that my father kept his reloading dies.

I keep reading about folks using Bari reeds on a tenor, tenor reeds on an alto, and soprano reeds on a clarinet (or was it clarinet reeds on a soprano). I figured, what's the difference?

A year from now you will still be wondering how I got those great subtones on a C flute.

[Bootman]

Now I know you must be kidding but don't take my comments as to your choice of headjoint out of hand, I am just saying that the size of your mouth will be the determining factor in choice of headjoint. The male\female thing is to illustrate a point. I have played a few Powells and they are indeed good horns but many players have felt the need to look further afield for headjoints.

What works for your teacher may not be the best choice for you. It isn't a case of one size fits all, try as many as you can before you make you're decision. This is what I am really saying.

[I. Fallon]

Yep. All in jest.

[Bootman]

No worries!

It was taken as such! :lol: