Replate a Florida Link (JVW reface)?

[Riff]

I've owned this Link since about 1974. It never played right. Two years ago I had Jon VanWie reface it and open it up to .108 (originally a 5*) It now plays and sounds beautifully.

The gold plating is all but gone and there's bare brass showing through the silver plating in a few spots.
I emailed Babbitt about replating it but they can't promise they won't damage the facing unless they see the mouthpiece. They're willing to evaluate it and let me know before they work on it.

Do any of you have experience with replating mouthpieces?

[BobD]

I remember JVW saying that replating will change the facing and that he usually never replates. When he does he needs to go over it again and touch up the facing. I think it's kinda hit or miss too because he did sell one on ebay that had been replated. I talked to him about it and he said he lucked out that it came back from plating and still played. I wouldn't risk it.

[Mike Ruhl]

Riff - have you tried contacting Theo Wanne about it? Theo will reply to an email, and as we all know, he has tons of experience with this kind of stuff. www.mouthpieceheaven.com

[Johannes Gerber]

I would advise NOT to take it to the avarage jeweler type of guy. It took me a lot of trouble finding a plater who could understand that they only do the plating - NO polishing.

I polish every piece to the final finish - by hand. I normally make the lay 0.1mm longer - then I take it for plating - 1m copper, 5m nickle, 20 micron silver - and they know by now that they DON'T touch the piece after the plating - 20micron is quite thick - the piece is a scary milky white colour after plating - I then polish it with silvo and by hand. About 60% of my pieces don't need facing changes after plating. 20micron will allow for the facing to be evened after plating - thinner, and you WILL go through the silver for just a minute change. (on 2000 grit)

You can plate a piece and get a perfect facing afterwards - but it requires skill and experience - because all the surface areas are not the same, sharp edges, thin rails, etc. - for the best results in a tank, the piece should hang vertically with the shank upwards and the table/rails must point to the electrode.

The MOST difficult part though, is to get into the plater's mind what this is all about, not just decoration, to most a mpc is just like a silver plate etc.

I only have experience in silver though.

[MitchP]

Anderson Plating is supposed to be good at this.

[Johannes Gerber]

can they, Anderson Plating, measure a facing curve? I recommend that whoever do the plating, should AT LEAST have a solid mpc making/refacing background. reason:

The piece should be examined closely before plating, played tested, all facing measurements should be copied. - this can only be done by a competent mpc tech. After plating - should anything be slightly different, the lay should be restored to be EXACTLY the same as before the time.

A problem that may occur - many times - it's not the final layer that made the piece go off, but the nickle underneath - the final gold (very thin) can be perfect, but nickle underneath can be uneven - then - by adjusting the lay you will go through the gold/silver.

[Riff]

Thanks for the replys so far. I think emailing Theo is a good idea.
I'll bounce it off him.

Another factor in my decision is that this is NOT my primary mouthpiece.
I actually like my modern NY Link better. I was considering selling the piece on ebay because the plating seems to be deteriorating fast but if I can replate it without harm to the facing I'll probably keep it.
OTOH, if replating is likely to damage it then I'll sell and let someone else worry about it.

[Riff]

Theo got back to me already. His experience is 50-50. Replating may cause problems, it may not. He did say however that the piece would sound different when it's done. The facing may need just some light touch-up or something more intense.

So I'm still mulling this over. Any other input would be helpful.

[max]

I don't know if this is useful info, but:

My main mouthpiece is a FL Link - there's very little of the gold plating to be found anymore. There are also large patches of bare brass on mine - a good chunk of the floor has no plating at all.

It plays great, and the brass doesn't bother me. I have no plans to do anything with it.

[John Gilmore]

Greetings!

I've always loved the way vintage metal Links look when the gold has been worn away to reveal the silver plating (?) underneath and on the ligature as well.

Has anyone been able to obtain this look with a modern Super Tone Master? Is it possible to remove the gold plating on the mouthpiece and the ligature?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

[MojoBari]

I think you could probably remove the gold with steel wool. Perhaps add a few drops of oil as a cutting lubricant. The tricky part would be to not go through the silver.

[John Gilmore]

Greetings!

Sorry for the delay, my computer was down for quite a few days.

Good point about going through the silver. Before I try the steel wool and lube, does anyone have any other ideas?

Come on, where's that SOTW brainstormin' spirit?

[Paul Coats]

I brush plate the facing and table where brass shows through the silver on silver plated pieces. Solutions can be obtained for brush plating gold over the silver. This can be put on quite thin, enough to cover, but not a heavy plating that would change the measurements to any noticable degree.

[John Gilmore]

Ah! Another response! Great!

I appreciate all the help, guys! So you're saying I should go ahead and try the steel wool and then, in case I go through the silver plate that should be under the factory gold plate, touch up the points where the brass is showing through by using a silver brush plate? I'm really not sure what a brush plate is. Is it toxic? Is there any kind of household solution that is not so abrasive as steel wool?

Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!

[Paul Coats]

I have a JNT brush plater from Allied Supply. However, a better one is available from Caswell Plating:

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/plugnplate.htm

Instead of a brush and AA batteries, as in the JNT kit, the Caswell Plug n Plate kits use a swab (called a bandage) wrapped around the anode, with a wall charger for power.

Note, the silver kit and gold kit are identical, but for the plating solution. You can buy the silver kit, and a jar of the gold plating solution to repair your mouthpiece.

At the top of the page above is a link to video tutorials. This is really very, very easy. I advise wearing rubber gloves, and as with any chemicals or grinding, safety glasses or goggles. I would cover the work area with plastic, such as a garbage bag.

In addition to the kit, some Hagerty's or Wright's silver polish, or Flitz Metal Polish is needed. The piece to be plated must be clean and shiny, or the plated piece will not look good. Also, as silver is plated, the spot immediately turns black--silver oxidation-- and part of the reaction. It is then polished to a bright shine. You have to do this several times as you plate the piece. But in minutes you will have a nice job.

There are also kits to do chrome, which is a three step process known as "triple plating". When something is "triple plated chrome", it does not mean it has three layers of chrome. First it is necessary to plate the piece with copper, in order that the next layer will stick... which is nickle. Then the chrome is applied to the nickle. I don't know of the copper step can be skipped for a brass mouthpiece.

This same silver plating kit can be used to touch up the tops of key posts on silver saxes, thumb hooks and key touches, and other wear areas. After a light polishing, and a little time, the touched up area will blend and the sax will look much better. I have even plated an entire neck with very professional looking results.

Now, you want to remove the gold, exposing the silver. Among the tutorials on the Caswell site is one on DEPLATING. He is deplating chrome, but I am sure the principle is the same, reverse current, but using the gold solution.

Silver will turn black, and need repolishing every so often. The gold plate does not. I would be tempted, on a Link, to polish any worn areas and the freshly cut facing, and touch up with silver, repolish, and touch up with gold.

[MojoBari]

Brush plating is a small-scale electroplating process. Kits are sold by Caswell.

I have a series of photos on brush plating. You may need to join the Yahoo MouthpieceWork group to see them.

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/mouthpiecework/lst?.dir=/Brush+Plating+by+MojoBari&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t& .done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

http://www.caswellplating.com

[Paul Coats]

Apparetly Mojobari and I were posting at the same time. Hah!

[MojoBari]

Yes, but you won by 3 minutes.

I have a "Copy Chrome" kit from Caswell. It is a special Nickle-plate formulation that matches chrome very well and does not require a 3 step process.

These kits are easy to use, but the plating is very, very thin. You can try to build it up in layers, but it will try your patience. Heavy polishing with Flitz can take a layer away. I just use a treated polishing cloth.

Copy Chrome works better for me than Silver. I have not tried Gold.