bari sax good for symphonic band?

[barisaxiguy]

ok, we have 2 baris in our high school symphonic band, im one of them. our director often yells at us(mostly me) to play quieter(iits marching season so im used to playing louder) plus he says the baris tone is too rigid for symphonic band. I was wondering if i should stay with bari(main intrument) in symphonic band or switch to something more meant for a symphonic band

thx

[pknight]

Meant for a symphonic band? Both of the concert bands at our university have a bari sax, so there is certainly a place for bari in a symphonic band or wind ensemble. Don't switch your symphonic band instrument!

On the other hand, I would suggest that you switch your marching instrument. I have never seen baris in any college marching band, nor, IMHO, should there be baris in marching bands. I have seen small high school marching bands with baris, but I have assumed that was because they had nothing else for the student to play. In some cases, the poor kid is dragging (not marching!) a sax that is as big as himself/herself. If the school has something smaller you can use to march with, I would ask to use it if I were you. And then learn to control those dynamics!

[FireRescueFL]

I marched bari for a year back in high school so I know it can be done. It's really no worse than marching 4th or 5th Bass or Quads, even (which also did Junior and Senior year).

As for your tone in symphonic band, if you really want to play to bari in that setting, then you should get a decent classical bari mouthpiece. It will make it much easier to play at a more reasonable level to blend with the rest of the band and it will mellow the sound and take a lot of the edge away.

Then, when the director starts yelling at the bari section of calm it down, you can just point at the guy next to you still playing on the Otto Link 10*.

Good luck.
---Chris

[barisaxiguy]

i think im fine with marching band, sometimes i even outblow our three sousas, and i have no problem marchign with it.

i can gte a pretty good classical sound, now i just have to want to...

[singlereed]

Its a great part of a symphonic band and you can play it so it is as subtle and lyrical as a cello. However, its a pretty boring chair to hold down, I soon got fed up of playing the bari part in a concert band - generally the smaller the instrument, the busier is the part you will be asked to play.

[pknight]

I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't march with a bari, just that you will have an easier time of it with a tenor or alto, and if you pursue marching band beyond high school, you WILL be marching with something else.

[Martin Williams]

I didn't mean to imply that you couldn't march with a bari, just that you will have an easier time of it with a tenor or alto, and if you pursue marching band beyond high school, you WILL be marching with something else.

Not quite true. Ohio State;s main band is all brass and I play flugel, but we have another band(refered to the Athletic Band) and in the winter and Fall quarters I still march with my bari - On the ice in Hockey!!)

Martin Williams

[Hurling Frootmig]

What is your setup? That may be part of the issue. If you're playing something bright with a big opening you may not be blending in with the band.

[goodsax]

I participate in two symphonic/concert bands. We have three bari's in one and two in the other. I substituted for bari in one of them to get started in the group and then was asked to switch to tenor when the regular bari player returned from vacation.

IMO, the alto parts are the most interesting and challenging, the tenor next and in the bari parts there's a lot of oom-pah, oom-pah, if you know what I mean. But, that oom-pah stuff is very much needed as part of the underlying infrastructure for whatever piece is being performed.

I also marched in the 1957 Rose Parade with the Whittier HS band playing a bari when my primary was alto in another HS marching band. I'm glad my bari marching was limited to one parade.

[pknight]

Not quite true. Ohio State;s main band is all brass and I play flugel, but we have another band(refered to the Athletic Band) and in the winter and Fall quarters I still march with my bari - On the ice in Hockey!!)

I envy anyone who has a college hockey program to support (MSU grad here).

I assume that the marching on the ice is not quite the same as what happens on the football field, in terms of drills (i.e., you don't do anything quite like Script Ohio on the ice, do you? If so, I will come to Columbus to watch!). There are baris in the non-marching athletic bands here also, but not on the field. I have been watching Big 12 and Big 10 marching bands for decades, and I cannot recall a single bari. There must be a reason for this, since all of these schools own bari saxes and could march them if they wanted to. I think that it is not just the weight of the instrument (many marching instruments are as heavy or heavier), but the fact that it is just too awkward. They modify horns, tubas, percussion, etc. to make them easier to march, but a bari sax, hanging from a strap or harness, nearly dragging on the ground, while trying to perform close-order drills? There is no need for it. Of course, if the band only does parade marching, it might not be quite as bad.

For those who marched baris in high school, I understand why that happens somtimes, but as goodsax implied, perhaps the less it happens, the better. If you enjoy marching a bari, more power to you!

[Martin Williams]

you don't do anything quite like Script Ohio on the ice, do you? If so, I will come to Columbus to watch!

hehe - the 15 of this month will be the first script Ohio on ice - done by the athletic band; not the regular marching band - and yes I will have a bari. Game is at the Schottenstein Center, tickets should be 4 bucks for a hockey game as usual; but I dont know what time the game is; sorry

Martin Williams

[Brendan Muse]

I've marched bari in our regular fall marching band for three years. I haven't had any problems. Now, granted, I've watched some bari players march hunched over and playing into the ground, but all it takes to do well is arm endurance. And finding a horn with a well-placed thumbhook. And not tripping and falling over and bending the school's good horn.

Not that I've had any problems. *cough*

[MPL]

When I was in grad school, I didn't have time to play in the Wind Ensemble although I did play in the primary jazz ensemble. So there was no baritone saxophonist in the Wind Ensemble - until it came time to perform at the CBDNA conference in Reno. I was literally drafted, on two days' notice, into going on the trip, since it would have looked bad for the wind ensemble of a major university (which shall remain nameless) to have incomplete instrumentation. The fact that the Wind Ensemble conductor was on my Master's committee also had a lot to do with it!

Luckily, I had been keeping up my concert band chops and was able to perform the pieces (Vaughan Williams, Hindemith) with just a bit of practice, and the trip turned out to be a lot of fun as well.

Playing baritone saxophone in a concert band or similar group is an entirely different animal than playing in a jazz group, or even in a marching band. You must have the right setup - and no, it's not absolutely necessary to use some kind of Selmer mouthpiece or super-stiff reeds - and, more importantly, the horn must be in absolute tip-top shape if you want to be able to execute complete dynamic control.

At the time, I was using a Yamaha 61, which is a fairly bright horn, and I aimed for an acceptably dark sound by using the stock Yamaha 5C mouthpiece with brand new #3 Hemkes and a Rovner ligature. I also used (and still use) a Ploeger sound mirror so I could hear myself at all times, which helped greatly with intonation and blend.

Outblowing the sousaphones in a marching band, eh? Are you in tune with those sousaphones? Is your saxophone tone appropriate for this type of performance? And is it really appropriate for the baritone saxophone to carry that line? Seems like that should be the band director's call, although it also sounds like those sousaphones need to get some breath support going!

Don't get me wrong - I'm one of those weird jazz musicians who just loves marching band: 5 years in a university marching band, 2 years as a marching band TA, 3 years as a high school band director, and 4 years as a university marching band assistant director. (Whew! That's a lot of mileage!) Along the way, I've seen baritone saxophones in the marching band only once, and of the three of them, only one really sounded pretty good. It's kind of like having bass clarinets and alto clarinets in the marching band...doing so lets more people participate, but I'll be danged if I can hear their contribution to the overall sound. I'd rather have the baritone saxophonist play alto or tenor - and let the sousaphones do their own work!

My wife was the color guard captain when she was last part of a university marching band. My boss at the time, the university marching band director, liked to give her a hard time about it - he hated flags and auxiliaries, never used them in his groups, and thought they never contributed to the show at all. One day she had had enough, and asked him point-blank: "Which works better outdoors - a flag...or a clarinet?" He never hassled her about flags again! :D

Sorry for the long post. When I read about band directors who don't quite know what to do with baritone saxophones, it gets my dander up!

[barisaxplayer]

For wind ensemble I've used a variety of mouthpieces... For classical stuff I used hard rubber for the most part. The plastic yamaha 5c that came with my 62 was fine as well...(got into all state on it, actually) I now use a vandoren b35(still a little open for classical) which works great, I only have to adjust to going from a 114 opening on my runyon custom to the 88 on my b35!

As for switching between marching and wind ensemble, you just have to adjust and make way for other horns, baris in those groups are for bringing out color and sound... but you're background now. Stick with it, it'll be just fine.

[tapdancesavy]

Set-up is everything in something like this. For jazz and anything louder I have a metal mouthpiece but for classical I have a sweet rubber Yani. Also, when I play jazz for a long period of time and not classical I have to develop my classical sound back up. Long tones work well thinking about having a really broad, rich sound.

[barisaxiguy]

thx all, my setup for mostly everything is a runyon custom spoiler with a edII lig and med hard la voz reeds.

in marching band we have 4 bari players and 3 sousas, but the sad thing is none of them blow but me(i also use the spoiler in my custom only for marching band) im perfectly in tune with teh band, and my band director soemtimes tells me to back off, but when we had a clinic the instructor told me to play louder, and my director seemed to be fine with it.


thx everytone for the help so far

[Brendan Muse]

Get a nice, dull, inaudible C* and be done with it. It will save you a lot of grief in the long run.

Besides, it's not as though anyone wants to actually hear a bari sax in a wind ensemble.

[barisaxplayer]

bah to that I say! "Children's March" Or whatever it's called by Grainger has a big bari solo for wind ensembles! :D

[MonchMan]

I would pull the spoiler or get an 88 for symphonic band. Played Bari from 8th grade through Collage in symphonic bands. Always blended well, used C* and a Runyon through out. I know they say "Don't play bari if you do not want to be heard", but learing to blend with the rest of the band is a skill that will take you very far.

[MPL]

learning to blend with the rest of the band is a skill that will take you very far.

Amen!

[barisaxiguy]

bah to that I say! "Children's March" Or whatever it's called by Grainger has a big bari solo for wind ensembles! :D


haha what a coincedence we just got this song on thursday, its a great song, and were playing it for a concert soon

[Brendan Muse]

It's Percy Grainger's Children's March? Any idea of what grade it might be?

*ponders the possibilities for distict festival*

[bcbarrett]

I played Bari in High School and professionally in several symphonic ensembles, so yes there definitely is a place for the bari in symphonic wind ensembles. Early when I was in Jr. High I was a bit overly enthusiastic - Ahhh.. the fun of being young. I had a great band teacher who was patient and took the time to explain to me how to play the instrument beautifully and blend in.

Baris have a unique timbre so they have a tendency to stick out. For symphonic ensemble there are two very important things.. First and foremost you need to listen to the other players around you. If you can't hear the flutes and clarinets you're too loud at any volume. Secondly if you're using a wide open small-chambered "jazz" mouthpiece I'll recommend as others have you should switch to a more closed large-chambered "legit" mouthpiece (Think Selmer S80 or Vandoren). That will take a lot of edge out of your tone and help you blend better. Bari saxes tend to have the equivalent to either string bass or cello parts so the more you can smooth out the tone and make it sound like a string instrument, the better.

The more flexibility you can demostrate with the instrument the more in-demand you will be as a player. There's a time to put your lungs through the horn and then there are times when a more delicate and sensitive approach works better.

As far as marching baris... Many universities and the military still march them. I marched with one for many years. It builds "character." :-)