Cannonball and "Bird"

[witchazel]

So I just talked with Nashville music...they no longer carry cannonballs but their own "Bird" brand that they say is the same. The guy I talked with...very nice said that Phil Kennedy likes this horn better. Anyone know about these......

[Jeff Foster]

You must be talking about Nashville Used Music. I think the "Bird" line is made exclusively for them. I have played them. At the time Nashville Used Music also had several comparable Cannonball models in stock and I played the Birds against them and couldn't tell any difference. The Birds have a few extra features that are quite nice. For example, they have adjustable palm keys and rollers on the octave keys. The owner of the store told me they're made in the same factory as the Cannonballs and are, basically, Cannonballs with a few added touches. That's confusing to me since Cannonball claims they own the factory in Taiwan or wherever it is and that the factory exclusively builds Cannonballs. Still, I'm inclined to believe him because, as I said, I did a side by side comparison and the Birds were virtually identical to the Cannonballs in all respects (sonically as well as visually and mechanically). Very nice horns for the money.

[Morry]

If this is true, it might finally introduce a bit of price competition into the Cball equation.

[michaelbaird]

I wouldn't waste my time with either of these horns. I had a cannonball alto and hated playing it because I couldn't trust the pitch. My repair man Lee Dennis who has repaired horns for Tom Scott when he was in Nashville as well as Lee Greenwood, refuses to even touch the Birds stating that the posts separate from the horn. Those horns are also not rib constructed. I payed 1300$ for a 98knight alto and traded it at Nashville Used music for a Selmer USA alto. I got 600.00 for the horn and had to give them extra to get the Selmer USA horn. I lost money needless to say; I got the selmer repadded and it screams and plays in tune. Nashville Used Music hasn't sold the cannonball alto yet. I still have a cannonball royal crown soprano. I hate it too! Several of the pads fell out of the horn as well as most of the corks and a few pieces of the mother of pearl. The nickle and silver plating started coming off almost immediately after I got it. I don't know what the cheap alternatives are for good saxophones, but the Birds and Cannonballs certainly are not!

[Jeff Foster]

Gosh, Michael. Don't sugarcoat it. Tell us how you really feel. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I have a Cannonball alto and, while I agree that the build quality is not as good as a Selmer, I love it in terms of tone and playablility. Mine must have been built on a good day when all the stars were in line or something because it's just dripping with Mojo. I have owned other altos by the way, including a 1964 Mark VI that I played for 30 years. I played that horn until it was way overdue for an overhaul and then traded it for a guitar and some money. Suffice to say, I'm very familiar with Selmers and agree that they are great horns but my Cannonball has a special sound that even my Mark VI couldn't get. This stuff sure is subjective ain't it?

[Stencilman]

Some people have written off Cannonball based on the Knight series horns which are nothing like the Big Bells. The Knights look more like the Moniques, Wexlers, et al in construction. The Big Bell is a totally different beast.

[Saxaholic]

Yes, the Big Bell series is a top notch professional horn. They are incredible horns and won't cost you $3000 like the Selmers. Ease of playing, intonation, tone, projection: it's all there. I have a Big Bell alto in Black Nickle plate and its seen some major abuse. However, it has NEVER dented or had any of its plating come off. I mean, this thing has been introduced to the school band, used in gigs, jazz band, etc etc etc and it is holding up extremely well. IF YOU PURCHASE ONE, BE SURE TO GET ONE MADE AFTER THE FALL OR WINTER OF 2002. The pads before this time seem to be a bit sticky if you're not careful about keeping them clean. Otherwise, the horn is great.

[DukoffHollywood]

MichaelBaird...you seem to be the only person on this board to hate Cannonballs with a passion. Have you tried the new Big Bell Globalizer tenor? I've compared it to a Selmer Mark VI, VII, Series II, and a new Yani. I would choose the Cannonball any day. While the VI was a little better, it was only better in terms of intonation.

[michaelbaird]

I do hate them. I hope the big bells are better. I would like to be a fly on the wall when Pete Christlieb or Gerald Albright are practicing. I'll bet they pick up their vintage horns when no one is looking.

[Stencilman]

I do hate them. I hope the big bells are better.Yes, the Knights and the Big Bells are no where near the same. I'd recommend that anyone stear clear of the old Cannonball Knights. The new Cannonballs that I've tried are very nice horns but seem a bit overpriced, IMHO.

[Sheryl Laukat]

MichaelBaird,

Sorry for the late post to this subject. I went to Taiwan in August and can't seem to catch up with everything.
While we can't please everyone, I do hope you'll give the Big Bell a try.

It might be helpful to know that we don't pay Gerald Albright and Pete Christlieb to play Cannonballs. It was a total surprise to me when Gerald's "Groovology" came out splattered with several photos of his Cannonball horns. I knew of the CD, but he surprised us with the photos.

Please let me know if I can be of assistance: sheryl@cannonballmusic.com

Sheryl Laukat
C.E.O. Cannonball

[michaelbaird]

Sheryl, Thank you. I think alot of you and Cannonball for responding to this forum. I will give the big bells a try. I do like the hard rubber Cannonball mouthpieces that are supplied with the horns. They play as well or better than the majority of the big name ones.

[broken_reed]

Sheryl

Can you tell us more about the hard rubber mouthpieces.
I love mine as well. Is it a Cannonball design?
Just so you all know I wouldn't trade my Big Bell Tenor for any of the big 4. I test played probably 12 selmers ( all models) before buying this horn. Probably 4 of them were playable. One of those was an old Mark 6 I tried out for fun. I played a couple Yamahas. Both were OK. I played one CB Big Bell and now I own it. And how cool is it, that you can send a email to CB and they answer it the next day. On top of that what they tell you is actually meaningful.
When was the last time you shot an email off to Selmer to ask about your octave key and the mechanics of how it should work with different notes.
And get and answer. I think CB is great. Price, Service, and definitly tone and playability.
But, its only my opinion.

[silverghost]

IF YOU PURCHASE ONE, BE SURE TO GET ONE MADE AFTER THE FALL OR WINTER OF 2002. The pads before this time seem to be a bit sticky if you're not careful about keeping them clean. Otherwise, the horn is great.

Whew, had me worried there a bit until i realized that mine is extremely new. I have the same sax as you, actually, black nickel big bell.

As for the mouthpiece, the guy at the music store i got my sax said that the mouthpiece is actually a copy of a Meyer 5. I don't know if that's true or not, and i haven't actually tried the mouthpiece (i just popped my metal on and haven't tried it with anything else yet--i got it on thursday), but i wouldn't be surprised.

SilverGhost. . . . <yeah i made that name thinking i would get a silver sax. but BlackNickelGhost doesn't sound as good anyway. . .

[Sheryl Laukat]

Our mouthpieces are hard rubber manufactured in Germany and faced in the USA with the acception of the bari mouthpiece which is plastic and made in the USA. We're working on a jazz mouthpiece for bari.
CAM C* = 64 thousandths tip opening - classical alto
CAM 5 = 77 th. tip op. - jazz alto, fashioned after the New York Meyer 5

CTM C* = 85 th. tip op. - classical tenor
CTM 5* = 85 th. tip op - has different facing than CTM 5- for jazz tenor
CTM 7 = 100 th. tip op - jazz tenor - more open than CTM 5

CSM C* = 55 th. tip op. - classical sop
CSM 7 = 73 th. tip op. - jazz sop

CBM C* = 78 th. tip op. classical or concert bari

Whether we include a classical or jazz mouthpiece with the horn depends on the dealer so if you have a preference, please make sure to tell the dealer ahead of time.

Thanks for the question ~
Sheryl Laukat
C.E.O. Cannonball

[michaelbaird]

I played a big bell global series tenor today. I must admit, I enjoyed it. I need to try the altos and sopranos. The tenor was black nickle with gold keys. It was by far the best looking and best playing tenor Sam Ash had in stock and the price was good too. The action and scale felt better than the Yamaha next to it. If I was looking for a tenor, I would have bought it. It sounded great with my dukoff.