Are there Bundys to avoid?

[Ol Danl]

I've been thinking about trying to buy a baritone for some time now. I have a fixed amount I can spend, and it looks like ebay is my best hope for affording one (I'm including a few hundred for repairs). I'll probably bid on a few Conns and Martins first, but probably run out of money. From what I've seen in previous threds, it looks like some older Bundys were made using Beuscher tooling, and some later ones were made by Keilworth, so those both might be a decent way to go. I probably won't be looking for really recent ones, either. Are there some years or serial numbers that are just to be avoided?

[super20dan]

any of the bundys are good (provided it isnt too trashed from schooluse).

[FattBariSax]

Avoid Bb bundy's they arent as good as the A ones...Dont get a Bb period.

[super20dan]

not true

[MonchMan]

I played a Bundy for several years, the only horn I played that beat it was a Martin

[DezzaG]

Can't wait for Bootman to see FattBariSax's post!

Please don't listen to this rubbish, low Bflat horns are great, the improvement in sound is worth the hassle of no low A![/quote]

[LBAjazz]

I have owned several Bundy baris and some that are identical but say Buescher.In general, if condition is the same, older is better. Old Bundy [not Bundy II] baritones are really not bad at all. And just for the record, I have owned a Mk VI, a Martin, a Buescher big B,a Zephyr and several other brands of bari.If I could find a good deal on a Bundy bari I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[Ol Danl]

I appreciate all you folks chiming in. It looks like there is a good bit of support for the older Bundy's, and at least I should be able to find one of these that I could afford. I'm familiar with the Bb/A arguments, and that's not an issue -- if you play in a community band or for yourself or the power tools in the garage a low A is not a requirement. I do want a front F key, however. Are all the older Bundy's going to have a front F, or forked F, or whatever its called? And even really old ones will go to high F, right?

[Anji]

There is a ready-made converstion to add a front F, using one itty-bitty screw for a fixture. You could always take it off, if you dinna use it.

The most important part of any Bari purchase is the condition of the pads... if the overhaul is within the last 4-5 years, your tech can set it to 'play ready' for a reasonable service.

If the overhaul is older, you could be facing an additional $400 USD to get your horn into playing shape.

My first bari was a German-made Bundy. Nice horn, that I miss.

*******
What sort of budget have you set for purchase?

[OnyxSax]

Yeah, you have to watch those Bb baris...Chubby, my Low Bb Conn Chu just got hungry and ate another Low A horn, this time another YBS-62. He really leaves a mess behind whenever he eats these horns. That's what always seems to happen whenever a Low A horn comes Chubby's way...he just eats 'em up alive and spits 'em out the pieces.

[Ol Danl]

Budget....... My goal ( it may not happen like this, of course) is to find a horn on ebay for about $900 (or less), and I would have about $400-$500 to spend making it playable. I know a bari overhaul would cost more, so I was hoping to find one that didn't need that much work.

[FattBariSax]

Seriously my low Bb bari Bundy/Selmer from school sucks horribly.

[DezzaG]

Well it is a school horn, so prob it is beat up and in a need of a thorough going over! Generally, Bundy's are good, because of their link with the bueschers.

[Bootman]

Low Bb will out grunt a low a horn. The problems you're describing about the low Bb Bindy you have are more related to the condition of this particular horn than to the model in general. The low Bb Bundy should play fairly well, it is model on a Buescher 400 bari. There will be quality problems in keywork and fitting but it should sound pretty good.

The Low A Bundy's or Conn's or Artleys I have seen are ok but there nothing special to write home about, there is invariably problems with the low end on these horns.

Try an older Conn from th 50's if you need a cheaper option on a good Bari. Low A isn't necessary when youhave the power of a Bb horn.

[MusicMan]

FattBariSax...all the school Bundy's I've seen are beat to H-E-double-hockey-sticks...why can't you guys take care of your horns.

Don't blame the bari...older Buescher and Keilwerth based Bundy's are a great line of student horns...with the Bueschers being pro-level for the time of the design.

Instead, blame the guys that came before (and possibly yourself). How much do you throw your horn around? Do you care if you hit your horn on a stand, bounce it on the floor bell first, or knock it into a chair. How many dents in the horn are your fault? Do you swab it out after use? Do you keep the keys oiled? Ever march in the rain with it? Do you pick it up by the crook or wrap your hands around the keywork when you lift it? Ever drop the case hard with the bari in it?

Due to its size, the bari has a lot more mass and weight. The long rods and large pads are easy to bend. That makes it easy prey for adjustment problems. Keep the horn dry...buy a Hodge swab to tke care of that troublesome upper crook. Handle it with care.

I know...I speak from experience. In high school, I didn't care much about how I treated the school horns, especially the Bundy we used for marching (the King Silversonic we had was a different story). I started caring when the horn had to go in for a major rebuild and I didn't have anything to play. I took care of it after that.

Now I help one of the local high school directors with his bari players and their horns. We've gotten the old workhorses back in shape and if I see one of those guys mistreat their horn, it's sousaphone polishing duty for them.

[Storamin]

Musicman, speaking of school horns. My school bari is in horrible disrepair. This thing has multiple dents on it. Quite a few in the crook, even more in the bell and lower end. This thing has been dropped more times than years I'm old (16). However, I haven't dropped it yet nor injured it in any way. More than half the keys are offset, and the higher it goes the sharper it gets, the lower it goes the flatter it gets. The second bari isn't better, it's even worse.My band director is too cheap to overhaul it, and I'm not wasting my money on it. Take care of your horns or you'll end up like me. I'm just glad my parents bought me my own.

[MusicMan]

Storamin....don't blame your band director...blame the current lack of funding in general for any school fine arts program. Money just doesn't exist for most school districts. Most band directors just don't have the money to do the proper upkeep for their horn inventory. It seems that baris are among the most common to suffer, along with bass clarinets.

That's why you find more and more volunteers helping out in any way they can.

I currently have a line in my will to donate my baris to a needy local school. Granted that may be a while (I hope :lol: ) but it's one way that you can help a needy school, albeit in the future.

[michaelbaird]

If it is a Bundy and made in Germany, it is a Keilwerth stencil. I have a pre-Selmer Buescher 400 and it kicks ***. I had to have it worked on, but who cares! My only regret is the idiot I bought it from had it repadded removing the old Buescher style snaps :(

[Mitch A]

Ol danl... I play bari with two community bands. I hit low A in almost every piece we play. It is especially handy when the tuba is out or misses his low note(s). Don't overlook a good horn just 'cause it goes to low A. With two swing bands, I play either tenor 2 or bari and rarely hit low A, 'cause most swing arangements were written before baris got low A in any great numbers.

[Ol Danl]

Well, I may have actually bought one -- a "Bundy to avoid." I hope not, though. A couple of weeks back I got into a last minute ebay bidding frenzy on this former high school horn. I wasn't even going to look back at this one again but I stumbled into the end of the auction and had to jump in. This is a late 70's horn and it has a lot of dents and quite a bit of bare spots with red corrosion. The neck was almost completely stripped of lacquer and covered with red, so I cleaned it off with brass polish. At least the stuff will come off. I toted it to the local tech ( He was offering to look at any horn I was going to bid on and give his opinion, and he had already told me another horn I was interested in was kinda rough), and he said that while it was in fairly rough shape, he could make it look decent and play well for about what I was expecting to pay. He also said that if I didn't want to keep this horn he would give me what I had in it (about $550). I figure I'll go ahead and let him fix it up since I don't have any real bari experience, and I might do worse if I tried to do this again. I know I probably should have avoided buying a school horn -- that seems to have been the jist of this thread. But this horn should be a player for about $1000 total.

[JohnZ]

Anytime a music store will buy your horn for what you paid for it, you can assume that you got a good deal! It's amazing how many of these beat up Bundy baritone saxes are out there. I bought one a few years back. Everyone loves the sound of it. By comparison, it makes those megabuck new low A models sound like Cellos.

[Ol Danl]

JohnZ -- Thanks for your vote of confidence. Its probably going to be a few months before I get the Bundy back again in playing condition -- the tech said he has a lot of work ahead of me. I guess some of it will be of the "Back to school" nature, but he also told me that he has a couple of Conn baris to go through for two friends of his. It seems these guys have been buying on ebay as well. This whole ebay thing seems to be a pig-in-a-poke situation at best, but where I live, there aren't a whole lot of used baris to go out and try. I mean, I'm only about 2 hours from either Atlanta or Nashville, but unless things have changed in those places recently, I don't know of any places there to find a wealth of used baris. Maybe I just don't know the secret handshake. Anyway, I think that in spite of obvious hazards of buying something you haven't actually seen, ebay is a reasonable way to find a bari.

[JohnZ]

Ol Danl, the secret handshake for buying just about anything is PATIENCE. My rule for ebay is assume the worst, pay with a credit card so you are protected, & if the price plus a complete overall comes close to a local purchase, you can't go too wrong. This is probably a busy time for instrument techs, what with school starting. I wouldn't let the horn sit at the shop for months. You can do a lot yourself, such as cleaning. Clean the pads with something harmless like baby wipes, lube the shafts with a DROP of oil, etc. Everything is big and even clumsy folks can figure it out. Read through the repair tips on this board. You can do a lot of little stuff, like felts & bumpers yourself. the previous owner of my horn used bits of wine corks. Oddly enough, the more of them I replaced with felt the milder the horn got. Just don't bend anything!!!

[Ol Danl]

Thanks for your words of wisdom, JohnZ. I guess I had pretty much abandoned patience during the ebay auction that acquired me this Bundy. I had known when to quit on a couple of previous bari auctions, however, so I guess I had a little patience left then. Its interesting to look at the bid histories during auctions. You always see some of the same ID's -- guys bid so far and then quit. Some of them stop at about $200-$300 --they may have too much patience.
With respect to working on this horn myself, I did spend a couple of hours cleaning corosion off the neck. The more I looked at it, I realized it had a lot of bent places. The bell was slightly pushed into the brace, a couple of tone holes were not level. The tech agreed that the crook section would have to come off to straighten some stuff. I think any felts or corks I could do would just have to be done over again. Although I do kind of enjoy that kind of thing and you have reminded me of something I need to do on my alto!
I guess the wait for this bari is going to require some real patience...... :(

[pprj]

My Bundy Bari says "Bundy made Selmer". Has the Buescher 400 keys. Where does this compare with other Bundys? Plays really great.

[magnus]

I had, in HS, a Yamaha 62. There were also a couple Bundy horns, that were in various states of repair. It felt like, if the Bundy horns had a really decent tech take care of them rather than a student repair place, they could play very well. They felt the way that my old Buescher does, and that's certainly enough horn.

If I were you, I'd probably bite the bullet and get somebody to really do your horn over well. I did the do-it-yourself thing, and I did OK with some things, but it cost a lot to have it adjusted after I padded it anyway. So just do what you have to do, but keep in mind that you'll probably be happier with your purchase when you know it's playing right.

I was posting to say that there was a decent deal on a cheap bari at cybersax.com - which is odd since everything there is retail vintage - but as I've already typed most of this, I guess you got a horn.