SML Alto or Tenor Plus Serial Numbers Plus

[saxyben]

Hi, I really enjoy reading this site, (especially this page) as many others do.
Correct me if I am wrong but are most SML fans Tenor owners (Rev D or GM1) and is this because of the oversized bell? I have just bought an Alto on Ebay and I hope it lives up to the recommendations from here, Saxpics (hi Pete) & elsewhere.
Also excuse my ignorance, but if there are only 27,000 Serial numbers spread across Tenor, Alto, Baritone & Soprano of which X,000 are stencils and x,000 are standard models, this is a very rare make ? how many tenors or altos etc. Is this the case or are there serial numbers for each model so are there are upto 100,000 overall?
These pages usually get lots of views and few comments.
I would prefer lots of comments!:)

[JMac]

Hey saxyben-

I am a SML alto owner too (rev. D). Would like to own a reasonably priced tenor (or for that matter, a complete line-up)- but they are hard to find as hen's teeth. This may be witten down to the fact that once a person has one - they aren't likely to part with it. It could also be caused by more altos being produced than the other voices - but there is no authoritative source to check. Some have even called and / or visited the factory (they still make oboes, and maybe some clarinets) with little hint from SML that they even used to make saxophones.

So - no idea on the number of each voice produced. The serial numbers were for all horns, not each line (so there is not a 12,552 alto and a 12,552 tenor). Please also note that if they started with serial #7300 in 1949 and serial #8000 in 1950 - that does not necessarily mean that they made 699 saxes in 1949. My guess would be that they rounded up to the next highest 100 when commencing the new year's production.

The only info I can offer is anecdotal , at best. I check e-bay all the time for SML horns, and the various stencil names that I know are associated with SML. Most frequently I come across altos, followed by tenors, sopranos and finally baritones. Including the 'King Marigaux' - I'd estimate I see 4 or 5 altos for each tenor, sopranos - maybe 1 out of 30 or 40, and I've only seen a handfull of baritones in the 12 months or so I've been looking.

Again - who knows how much of this is due to 'hording' and how much due to original production. On the 'Old' SOTW' site, there was a lot of discussion about what hidden gems the SMLs are - I have no idea if many of them were snatched up back then - with happy owners who would never consider passing them on until they pass on!

I asssume you have checked out Pete's site discussing SMLs (http://saxpics.com/sml/index.htm)? You may actually be able to run a google search for the archived "old SOTW' discussions to see what happened 'all those years ago ;) '.

In any event - let us know how your horn works out - just don't brag too much - the poor Selmer snobs will cry when they realized how much they overpaid for their stuff, then they'll drive up the SML prices before I can complete my collection 8-) !

Good luck! - Jeff

[saxyben]

Hi Jeff, Thanks for the reply. I have been trying to get hold of an SML for over a year, being outbid many times and as you say the altos are a lot more common. Do you have any idea what the early tenors (rev A) are like, as I might be able to find one.
Thanks
Ben

[JMac]

I've not seen a Rev. A in any voice. A quick check of Pete's site indicates that the keywork is very different from the later horns. it also appears that there was a lot of variations among SML horns at that time, depending on which team of craftsmen worked on which particular horn. If you can -try it before you buy it. It seems there would be too much variation to peg what you'd be buying based on another horn of the same era. By the way, here is a link to the old message boards on SML (http://www.saxpics.com/SOTW_Archive/sml/index.htm).

[saxyben]

Thanks again Jeff. You have confirmed my doubts about it as I won't be able to play it first (it's not the one on US Ebay) but its a 4XXX. I previously owned a Selmer 1931 alto which had a great action, but the intonation wasn't so good & I don't want to make the same mistake again.
My current Couesnon Monopole 2 alto(which will probably have to go now the SML is on the way) by comparison has much better intonation, but the tone is not quite what I am after as it is too clean.
I looked at the archive boards, but they upset me when they say I found an immaculate GM1 or RevD in a farmyard in Ohio!!! (Okay so most of them have paid good money.)
In the last year I have bid on SML.s King Marigauxs, Vedette's, Pichards, Alexandre's searched endlessly for Jenco's, Woodwind Cos and asked loads of US sellers to send to the UK when they have not put it on their listing. I have been pipped to the post on so many occasions it just isn't funny. I only bought the Couesnon on the rebound after losing out on a UK King Marigaux.
Luckily this time I had a bit extra to bid. Anyway thanks again. Ben

[saxyben]

After 2 weeks, My SML alto (GM2 Silver no engraving - apparently the French players preferred them like this so I have read- probably here or in the archive) arrived. It does have a ding ( a slightly flat bow) to sort out but it has almost 100% original lacquer and looks great.:)
The horn is heavier (physically) than my Couesnon and the tone is exactly what I was looking for as it has that extra depth/ slight smokiness.The action just feels quality, the sax is so well built and the reponse is immediate. Intonation is excellent and I will have to get used to the swivelingthumb rest but overall I have to say I am a very, very happy chap. I don't claim to be an amazing player as I am mostly a studio based musician and sax is not my first instrument but these horns are awesome even to a player like me.
Thank you to all of you who have contributed to these forums (& the saxpics site) as you educate the people like me who have been led to believe that Selmer are the only make to have if you are serious in your music. I have previously owned 3 Selmers and now the best sounding Sax I have ever owned is the SML!:) :)

[saxyben]

Sorry for leaving another post on this website but I have now eventually got a SML Tenor (King Marigaux 26XXX).
Don't get me wrong, the SML alto is an excellent sax with a great sound, but I have just bought a late KM Silver tenor (no engraving, no high F#)with little original lacquer left that looks very used!!! but sounds amazing !!!! (now I understand the term Players Horn).OK I have only owned it less than a week, but every time I play it I smile as the tone is fantastic.I now understand why more of the rave reviews come from Tenor owners.
Seriously I would like to thank Saxpics & this site for letting me in on the SML secret.
I do have a couple of queries.
My KM Silver Tenor has SML on the neck, is that normal? I have looked at saxpics, but none of the KMs have a close up of the neck.
Also it has green pearls on the low Bb C & D pads that must be a customization?
Thanks Again

[Sigmund451]

On early horns and rev D SML did use both different shaped and colored keys for the keywork where your fingers dont normally rest. I was told by someone here that this was probably to assist those who double. Its by design, not a later customization.

[mnash]

I'm always agonizing over mouthpieces and horns, wondering "is this the right one for me?" or "well this one has lots of ____ but not enough ____" and "I've read so many good things about the _______ that I've just got sell my ____ to try one!". I'm sure most horn players know what I mean.

The only exception is my 24,xxx King Marigaux tenor. I knew from the moment I blew the first couple of notes on it that I was done looking. Goodbye, expensive Selmer, Superba, 10M, and other fine horns I no longer own. Easy decision for me to make at the time, and no regrets. Of course, it's not the horn for everybody, it's whatever "fits" the best. The Marigaux just happens to fit me better than anything else I've tried. IMO there is no single "best" horn out there, it's whatever works for the individual player.

Alto is very much a second horn for me, and I guess I'm sort of content with my old Zephyr, but if I wasn't so broke I'd sure like to try out an SML alto! Of course, I might find that it just doesn't work for me - you never know 'til you try. So, anybody got a cheap SML alto they want to unload?? (yeah right)

By the way, no "SML" on the neck of my Marigaux. I thought this was phased out by the date of my horn, but it's interesting to hear that a later one has it.

[honkytone]

King Marigaux tenor #22963 has "SML" on the front of the neck. No green pearls, though. Sounds like something someone did later one. I know what you mean about putting the smile on your face when you pick it up--this one does it every time. Also have a Reynolds Contempora alto, another SML Gold Medal II era stencil. Love it too. Both horns have a good bit of lacquer wear, disclosing a very high copper content in the brass. No wonder they sound so good!

Do others find the KM tenor likes a short shank mouthpiece? Some of my favorite longer pieces play flat on it. But conventional Meyers and Brilharts are spot on perfect for it.