Even the guitar player noticed...

[Safesax]

I've always played big-bore horns. Conns for years, and now mostly a Buescher TH&C. These horns were the tenor sound I heard for me. Never had anything against a Selmer, but it just isn't my sound.

Yesterday, we played a gig, and a seasoned pro tenor player joined us on stage for a couple of tunes. He and I traded choruses, faked some harmonies, etc., and had a good time.

At the break, our guitar player said "Wow! His sound was so... clear!". He went on to say that we both sounded good, and we blended well, but it was easy to tell who was playing which part. It really took me back, because I was surprised he could hear that much of a difference.

But the pro was playing a Selmer. Don't know if it was his SBA or his VI. But it was really a chance to hear first-hand the big-bore, small-bore differences. That and the fact that he's a pro and I'm a weekend amateur. :oops:

Sure was fun, even for just a couple of tunes...

Dale C.

[gary]

Is your point that the Selmer had an advantage over the other horns? That's the gist of your title and comments. I would suggest the real difference is found in the words "seasoned pro".

[heath]

Dexter Gordon could wipe many a rear-end with either his Conn 10m or his VI. He sounded faboulus on both and for me personally his sound is only slightly different between the two horns, but it was also a matter of recording quality....being better in his later years.

Gary is right, someone who's put in the work will have full control over any horn whether it be a small, med or big bore horn.

[Safesax]

Gary,
No, I don't think that Selmer has an advantage. I've been playing for forty years, and I like my sound. That really wasn't what I was getting at.

My point was just the difference between focused and spread sounds, etc. The old discussion about big bore and small bore horns. I sometimes think that we get caught up in talking about equipment and the subtle differences between sounds. But I guess there's more to it than I thought. Even the guitar player noticed. Nothing more than that. :)

Dale C.

[JL]

What exactly did the guitar player notice? That the Selmer sounded clearer? Or something more than that? The reason I ask is that I can almost guarantee you that my '49 Buescher Aristocrat has a clearer sound than my MK VI. It also has a bolder, slightly more spread sound. But of course, it's all so subjective......

And of course no two players will sound identical, even on the same horn.

[Bill Mecca]

I just think it's interesting that the guitar player noticed anything! :)

[Rex]

The guitar player noticed that their sounds were different -- whether it was due to the different horns, different players, something else, or any combination of factors. "Wow, his [emphasis added] sound was so...clear!" seemed to be a telling observation, maybe implying that Dale C.'s sound is not so "clear" -- more complex, different somehow? I don't think it's so much of a stretch to attribute that to a significant difference between the horns. However, all other possible contributors aside, I think Dale C. and guest must have different sound concepts to come off as dramatically different-sounding to the guitar player. Maybe it's a chicken-and-egg thing too, though, since a different sound concept leads to selecting different horns, pieces, ligs, reeds (and strengths), etc. too.

[martysax]

I just think it's interesting that the guitar player noticed anything! :)

Maybe the seasoned pro player was wearing a skirt?

[gary]

I just think it's interesting that the guitar player noticed anything!Maybe the seasoned pro player was wearing a skirt?
...playing a low "A"! :twisted:

[Mike Ruhl]

The guitar player noticed that their sounds were different -- whether it was due to the different horns, different players, something else, or any combination of factors. "Wow, his [emphasis added] sound was so...clear!" seemed to be a telling observation, maybe implying that Dale C.'s sound is not so "clear" -- more complex, different somehow? I don't think it's so much of a stretch to attribute that to a significant difference between the horns. However, all other possible contributors aside, I think Dale C. and guest must have different sound concepts to come off as dramatically different-sounding to the guitar player. Maybe it's a chicken-and-egg thing too, though, since a different sound concept leads to selecting different horns, pieces, ligs, reeds (and strengths), etc. too.Methinks we think too much...It was probably the horn.

Now, before everybody everybody goes ballistic on me, remember that I was an expert marksman for both the US and West German Armies, back in the day :a-run: But I digress...(hey, it works for Marty)

More to the point, remember that I've played a Super 20 tenor for 30 years. But I'll be the first to admit that a good Mark VI will out-project a Super 20, all other things being equal. That's what Selmer was trying to accomplish. And that's why I don't like the Mark VI tenor. In order to make a tenor that projects like mad, they had to stretch out the body tube and thin out the sound. No thanks. Sure, it's a little more work to play a big bore horn, but it's worth it. :salute: :king:

[martysax]

...playing a low "A"! :twisted:

Just using her lip!:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

[Rex]

"Methinks we think too much...It was probably the horn."

Methinks you've misrepresented my post. I'm saying it's the horn...or the player...or the horn and the player...or neither the horn nor the player... . No particular deep thoughts that haven't been voiced over and over again before. I don't think you'll find universal agreement that it's just the horn that makes the difference, or that the horn itself is even the most significant factor.

[BayviewSax]

I just think it's interesting that the guitar player noticed anything! :)

Well, they usually notice when someone is singing, thus stealing their solo time.;)

[Talldog]

It's fun and ironic to note in these discussions that Charlie Parker had a different ax in almost every picture I've seen, but managed to sound the same on every record. Mannnnn ... Peaceout, T-dog (still in love with my '58 TH&C tenor)

[SilverNeck20]

I just think it's interesting that the guitar player noticed anything! :)

What the heck, one more wont hurt.

Usually when a guitar player hears anything other than his guitar, he has to turn up.

"It goes to 11":D

[Michael Ward]

" but I'm only playing to the volume of the drums........"

[Bill Mecca]

Actually I guess I'm lucky, both guitarists in my current band are very volume conscious, so much so that I often have a tough time hearing them (custom ear plugs play into that as well) on my side of the stage. Now if I could just do something about the bass player! :lol:

[SilverNeck20]

That's a good thing. I usually hate playing with more than one guitarist, they do tend to have a volume battle at the expense of everyone else.
My current band is completely mic'd so everyone is forced to keep their stage volume low, those with amps anyway. I admit these guys are not that bad. Of course it could be that after doing this for so many years I'm just losing my hearing.......................what, huh, did someone say something?

[jazaddict]

Now, before everybody everybody goes ballistic on me, remember that I was an expert marksman for both the US and West German Armies... :shock:
LOL!
Got a luv a post w/ built in defense.

I wonder if you'd swapped horns using your own MPC's what the difference would be? I know I get wildly different results just from different reeds let alone MPC's on my Ref54.

[Frank D]

Man, I hate to continue the conversation in this direction, but what mouthpice do you play, and what did the pro play? I use both large chamber/no baffle and small chamber/medium baffle mouthpieces on the same horn (Conn 10 M and Selmer BA), and the smaller piece always wins out in any kind of rock/blues or other setting with a higher general volume level. I'm not talking being drowned out, either, just a louder but balanced setting.

Just my $0.02